Proper PCT

[WildBB]

How long should I run a PCT after I finish my 10-12 week cycle of 250mg/ 2X per week test-e? I am assuming 3 weeks?

I am looking to do a clomid/nolva mix.

Wk 1 - 100mg clomid, 40mg nolva (ED)
Wk 2 - 50mg clomid, 30mg nolva (ED)
Wk 3 - 50mg clomid, 20mg nolva (ED)

Also, 14 days after last injection before start of PCT? I have also heard to wait three weeks?

Any help would be great guys.

 

[pesty4077]

How long should I run a PCT after I finish my 10-12 week cycle of 250mg/ 2X per week test-e? I am assuming 3 weeks?

I am looking to do a clomid/nolva mix.

Wk 1 - 100mg clomid, 40mg nolva (ED)
Wk 2 - 50mg clomid, 30mg nolva (ED)
Wk 3 - 50mg clomid, 20mg nolva (ED)

Also, 14 days after last injection before start of PCT? I have also heard to wait three weeks?

Any help would be great guys.

It looks good WildBB, You can wait 2 weeks.

 

[WildBB]

It looks good WildBB, You can wait 2 weeks.

Thanks Pesty!

Also, I have been hearing about Arimidex. Can anyone break this one down for me? How does it compare to Nolvadex?

WildBB

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Thanks Pesty!

Also, I have been hearing about Arimidex. Can anyone break this one down for me? How does it compare to Nolvadex?

WildBB

Arimidex is much different then clomiphene or tamoxifen. A-dex is an aromatase inhibitor (AI) and clomid and nolvadex are selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERM). Arimidex can be used to raise endogenous testosterone levels and has been used specifically for that purpose but it's much better suited to reduce the conversion of testosterone to estrogen during a cycle so that you keep your T to estro ratio high. An SERM does nothing to prevent the conversion but rather binds in a much lesser way than estrogens to certain specific estrogen receptors like those found in breast tissue. In simple terms, the SERM 'blocks' estrogen from showing it's effects. But know this: clomid and tamoxifen are weak estrogen agonists and for some people can actually worsen the effects of post cycle testosterone withdrawal and higher estrogen levels.

Both drugs can and have shown in studies to raise endogenous testosterone levels (1)(2). It's just the way they do it that is different.

Read these articles (very interesting):

(1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10902781
(2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/640052

 

[pesty4077]

Arimidex is much different then clomiphene or tamoxifen. A-dex is an aromatase inhibitor (AI) and clomid and nolvadex are selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERM). Arimidex can be used to raise endogenous testosterone levels and has been used specifically for that purpose but it's much better suited to reduce the conversion of testosterone to estrogen during a cycle so that you keep your T to estro ratio high. An SERM does nothing to prevent the conversion but rather binds in a much lesser way than estrogens to certain specific estrogen receptors like those found in breast tissue. In simple terms, the SERM 'blocks' estrogen from showing it's effects. But know this: clomid and tamoxifen are weak estrogen agonists and for some people can actually worsen the effects of post cycle testosterone withdrawal and higher estrogen levels.

Both drugs can and have shown in studies to raise endogenous testosterone levels (1)(2). It's just the way they do it that is different.

Read these articles (very interesting):

(1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10902781
(2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/640052

Good articles!

 

[WildBB]

So Arimidex is something you should take during cycle to keep your test ratios high? Or should I consider using all three of them during a PCT? I guess I am confused as to the best time to use the product...

WildBB

 

[OuchThatHurts]

So Arimidex is something you should take during cycle to keep your test ratios high? Or should I consider using all three of them during a PCT? I guess I am confused as to the best time to use the product...

WildBB

There's no way to be able to say which one you should use definitively as there are probably many different methods. Obviously, you should not use all three drugs. Ideally you want something that will increase your body's production of LH and FSH which will then boost your testosterone ideally back to pre-cycle levels. I believe tamoxifen is a much more powerful alternative to clomid. But nothing short of a medical doctor could tell you what to use and even he or she would be doing some guesswork. Since you are doing it ad-hoc with little knowledge of the exact pharmacology of those drugs, you are simply going to have to research them fully and make an educated decision. However, I've done mine with low dose HCG for the first 3 weeks off (2000iu qw in divided doses) and then tamoxifen for 4 full weeks at 20mg qd. If recovery has not completed by then I will repeat. I'm sorry if I confused you but something like post cycle 'therapy' is very individual and should be approached from an educated and cautious standpoint. I have no doubt that you may be confused. Remember that all of these drugs have side-effects which you want to keep to a minimum while at the same time, maximize the effectiveness of the cycle itself. Otherwise, all of it is for nothing right?

 

[WildBB]

This is probably a stupid question, but:

How will you know when your body is done requiring a PCT?

WildBB

 

[OuchThatHurts]

This is probably a stupid question, but:

How will you know when your body is done requiring a PCT?

WildBB

When your bloodwork comes back normal. Specifically LH, FSH, testosterone (total and free) are all within normal range for a person of your age and gender. That's why monthly bloodwork is very important. Other things should also be checked as well like thyroid, liver, and hematology. Physical symptoms, testicular exam, skin (sebum production), etc.

All of the above can be done with a routine physical exam.

 

[WildBB]

Is there a way to request blood work without going through my primary doctor. I know the guy well; he would just lecture me for an hour. Do you guys have experience with this?

WildBB

 

[pesty4077]

Is there a way to request blood work without going through my primary doctor. I know the guy well; he would just lecture me for an hour. Do you guys have experience with this?

WildBB

Direct Laboratory Services, Inc. (online service)

 

[WildBB]

Direct Laboratory Services, Inc. (online service)

WOW, that is very expensive! That would be like $250 per test period... If you ordered the mens health package and the Test(total + free).

WildBB

 

[pesty4077]

WOW, that is very expensive! That would be like $250 per test period... If you ordered the mens health package and the Test(total + free).

WildBB

Bloodwork isn't cheap, it sure helps when you have insurance. The 10 most important tests will give you everything you need, however it does cost $386.

 

[WildBB]

It does not look like they accept insurance?

 

[pesty4077]

It does not look like they accept insurance?

Well, that is why you go to your doctor and just get charge an office visit. At that time you can get your insurance to pay for bloodwork. You can more or less tell your doctor what tests you need. Oh, I wouldn't tell your doctor about any AAS use.

 

[WildBB]

Well, that is why you go to your doctor and just get charge an office visit. At that time you can get your insurance to pay for bloodwork. You can more or less tell your doctor what tests you need. Oh, I wouldn't tell your doctor about any AAS use.

He will ask me why I want these tests....Especially if I want them with some type of frequency.

Can I get in trouble if he knew? Isn't that a confidentially thing?

 

[Big Bapper]

It looks good WildBB, You can wait 2 weeks.

Dont mean to confuse you even more WildBB. I would leave it 3 weeks from last shot and use HCG during those 3 weeks. Then I would do OTHs PCT.

So it would go like this, take your last shot of test, take HCG just like OTH said for 3 weeks when the test is leaving your system. Then do OTHs 4 week PCT.

That is just my opion, dont take my word for it. Everyone has different veiws on this. Do your research on here and you will come up with your answer.

Hope this was of some help and best of luck, you are on the right track.

 

[WildBB]

Dont mean to confuse you even more WildBB. I would leave it 3 weeks from last shot and use HCG during those 3 weeks. Then I would do OTHs PCT.

So it would go like this, take your last shot of test, take HCG just like OTH said for 3 weeks when the test is leaving your system. Then do OTHs 4 week PCT.

That is just my opion, dont take my word for it. Everyone has different veiws on this. Do your research on here and you will come up with your answer.

Hope this was of some help and best of luck, you are on the right track.

So you are saying three weeks after the last test dose, use 500iu's HCG (every other day or 2x per week) for 3 weeks? Then start the SERM

 

[pesty4077]

He will ask me why I want these tests....Especially if I want them with some type of frequency.

Can I get in trouble if he knew? Isn't that a confidentially thing?

WildBB, I just tell my doctor I am worried about my health, that is all he really needs to know. I am 48 so it never throws up a red flag.

 

[Big Bapper]

So you are saying three weeks after the last test dose, use 500iu's HCG (every other day or 2x per week) for 3 weeks? Then start the SERM

Looks like you have been doing your research.

What I ment was take your first 500iu of hcg the day before the last shot of your cycle and continue to use till you start your PCT.

How long till you end your cycle bro or you just doing your homework here first.

Give me a honest answer and I can help allot quicker. I wont judge you, only help.

Respect.