Providers know less than bros

[Broski87]

Anyone else notice this?

Had a provider tell me var was mainly for fat loss. Another person at the same provider referred to deca as a peptide that had to be cycled. And don’t even get me started when it comes to AIs. These people have no clue.

Is this a pattern at the places?

 

[goback2013]

Anyone else notice this?

Had a provider tell me var was mainly for fat loss. Another person at the same provider referred to deca as a peptide that had to be cycled. And don’t even get me started when it comes to AIs. These people have no clue.

Is this a pattern at the places?

for the most part, this is my experience as well.
i just do the trt thing to get the 'legal' badge.
outside of that its homebrew or sponsored finished product

 

[5Noles]

What ever happened to the provider being the biggest guy in the gym who you could always count on for expert advice!

 

[buck]

Sounds like the providers you know are idiots and i would quit going there. I find most providers, as far as medical professionals base their info off of well established long term science regarding disease and not the latest studies from a few small sample groups looking at muscle growth. When i read what many/most bro's say online and their sources as where they got the info from i don't listen to them either. My experience is that the biggest guy is often not the smartest most knowledgeable guy. The guy that started off less then average then went past most may have more good info then others that are bigger.

 

[goback2013]

Sounds like the providers you know are idiots and i would quit going there. I find most providers, as far as medical professionals base their info off of well established long term science regarding disease and not the latest studies from a few small sample groups looking at muscle growth. When i read what many/most bro's say online and their sources as where they got the info from i don't listen to them either. My experience is that the biggest guy is often not the smartest most knowledgeable guy. The guy that started off less then average then went past most may have more good info then others that are bigger.

Re: biggest guy

I know this may be heresy, but Ronnie's interview on Rogan was somewhat cringy.
Specifically when he mentioned being 1% body fat.
That said. I've never been below 10% in my late20s throughout my 30s.

 

[buck]

Re: biggest guy

I know this may be heresy, but Ronnie's interview on Rogan was somewhat cringy.
Specifically when he mentioned being 1% body fat.
That said. I've never been below 10% in my late20s throughout my 30s.

I have seen reports of bodybuilders having a negative bodyfat. And reports showing eating burritos lowered the BF score far more then eating a large salad before the test. Although these report was many years ago. and things may have changed. Bodyfat analysis uses mathematical algorithms. And those numbers tend to be based off an average population. So to me it would seem they are less accurate for those that are very lean or very fat.

 

[Broski87]

Sounds like the providers you know are idiots and i would quit going there. I find most providers, as far as medical professionals base their info off of well established long term science regarding disease and not the latest studies from a few small sample groups looking at muscle growth. When i read what many/most bro's say online and their sources as where they got the info from i don't listen to them either. My experience is that the biggest guy is often not the smartest most knowledgeable guy. The guy that started off less then average then went past most may have more good info then others that are bigger.

There is truth to this, but bodybuilders have often been ahead of the science. Doctors and the scientific community for the most part shun bodybuilding hence the reliance on anecdotal evidence. Most doctors are ignorant when it comes to these matters. For decades the scientific consensus was that steroids retained water and didn’t build muscle.

 

[buck]

There is truth to this, but bodybuilders have often been ahead of the science. Doctors and the scientific community for the most part shun bodybuilding hence the reliance on anecdotal evidence. Most doctors are ignorant when it comes to these matters. For decades the scientific consensus was that steroids retained water and didn’t build muscle.

True. My Dr says BBer's are ahead on new cutting edge things and on my last visit he commented on how i have spent a lot of time experimenting on myself. And i don't think he was being sarcastic as he listens to what i say. But the other side is how many things have BBer's done over the decades and risked their health in the process and things didn't go as planned which in my experience there is far more that didn't turn out then did. There has been a lot of money wasted on supps, sarms, peds etc. As for not growing muscle the AMA had that as their policy but they have admitted they knew that wasn't the truth they just didn't want kids to use them. Truth and medicine don't always go together. But most of bodybuilding is not about health. When i got interested and started lifting 50 years ago there was still a perception that very big muscle were a good thing and healthy and now it is pretty well shown to not aid in health. One of the big problems i see with medicine is people thinking that Dr.'s know a lot or should know about everything. Theories on biology are not as accurate as theories in mathematics. Knowledge or biology is very fluid. Medicine is not about health and more then 1 Dr. has told me that yet most people think it is. Dr's have told me it is about curing disease and managing pain. And as long as i think along that path i find Dr.s to be more easy to deal with.

 

[Broski87]

True. My Dr says BBer's are ahead on new cutting edge things and on my last visit he commented on how i have spent a lot of time experimenting on myself. And i don't think he was being sarcastic as he listens to what i say. But the other side is how many things have BBer's done over the decades and risked their health in the process and things didn't go as planned which in my experience there is far more that didn't turn out then did. There has been a lot of money wasted on supps, sarms, peds etc. As for not growing muscle the AMA had that as their policy but they have admitted they knew that wasn't the truth they just didn't want kids to use them. Truth and medicine don't always go together. But most of bodybuilding is not about health. When i got interested and started lifting 50 years ago there was still a perception that very big muscle were a good thing and healthy and now it is pretty well shown to not aid in health. One of the big problems i see with medicine is people thinking that Dr.'s know a lot or should know about everything. Theories on biology are not as accurate as theories in mathematics. Knowledge or biology is very fluid. Medicine is not about health and more then 1 Dr. has told me that yet most people think it is. Dr's have told me it is about curing disease and managing pain. And as long as i think along that path i find Dr.s to be more easy to deal with.

The AMA has done so many about faces that I don’t find them credible at all. For all we know, the association is saving face because egg is all over it.

I definitely agree that bodybuilding is not about health. Some bodybuilders do dumb shit, but overall we know our bodies better than most doctors. Most physicians just went to medical school, memorized a bunch of stuff in Latin, conducted some labs, and now they reference a manual when a patient gets sick. (If they actually cared about health, they would be telling fat people to lose weight and pushing diet & exercise instead of pushing drugs.)

The medical establishment is a business and I take its pronouncements with a grain of salt. Sounds like you do too.

 

[01dragonslayer]

For the most part.....I don't like to discuss my hobbies with my MD.

 

[goback2013]

For the most part.....I don't like to discuss my hobbies with my MD.

Yes sir. I always dismiss questions with responses of Creatine, genetics, aminos, and gnc test boosters

 

[Broski87]

Yes sir. I always dismiss questions with responses of Creatine, genetics, aminos, and gnc test boosters

Completely agree. The one time I broached the subject of TRT with my primary he pretty much dismissed it entirely.

 

[pickapeck]

Medical doctors do what the AMA and their state boards tell them to do. They are further limited by insurance companies as far as what treatments will be paid and what policy guidelines to follow. They are not allowed to think.

 

[buck]

The AMA has done so many about faces that I don’t find them credible at all. For all we know, the association is saving face because egg is all over it.

I definitely agree that bodybuilding is not about health. Some bodybuilders do dumb shit, but overall we know our bodies better than most doctors. Most physicians just went to medical school, memorized a bunch of stuff in Latin, conducted some labs, and now they reference a manual when a patient gets sick. (If they actually cared about health, they would be telling fat people to lose weight and pushing diet & exercise instead of pushing drugs.)

The medical establishment is a business and I take its pronouncements with a grain of salt. Sounds like you do too.

I don't buy into the doctrine of any group really. Whether it is health, medicine, financial, religion or political. All groups have to be accountable to who ever is supporting them. That is how life works. And i don't get bent out of shape by it. The AMA sided with the sugar industry over fat decades ago as to which is healthier along with other things and many of those studies they used back in the 1940's and 50' have been shown to be falsified whether the AMA knew about that of not is up for opinion. I think most professionals do what they think is right through the lens they choose to look through. We all have our perception. Dr's are not going to go home every night and spend hours staying up on all the latest things. I figure that is my job. I never spent a lot of my own time staying up to date on all the latest trends in my field and i don't expect anything different from them. I did what was in my best interest to get by and figure they are like me. They are taught the basics and build on them through experience is what i have seen. Everything is a business and i am fine with that as i am a capitalist. It is a system that has worked out very well for me. And i don't begrudge others for doing the same as i have. Doing the right thing can open Dr's to law suits if the treatment has not been vetted by the organizations in charge. Dr. have a different mentality then it appear you and i do. They take an oath to do no harm and telling a fat person they are the cause of their problem( which most already know) would harm how they feel. Fat people are much like bodybuilders. Bodybuilders want to know how to lower their BP, glucose level, fix their liver kidneys etc. without changing what caused the problem. Being healthy seems to be about being moderate in all areas of life, eating healthy, getting some exercise but not to much and few people do what it takes to be as healthy as they can be and i am in that group too.

 

[Brominoacids]

Completely agree. The one time I broached the subject of TRT with my primary he pretty much dismissed it entirely.

Same here and no luck finding any insurance that wants to cover any cost.

 

[Broski87]

Same here and no luck finding any insurance that wants to cover any cost.

Kind of makes one wonder what world we live in where hormone therapy for grown men is taboo while var for little girls is celebrated.

 

[pumpflex7]

Anyone else notice this?

Had a provider tell me var was mainly for fat loss. Another person at the same provider referred to deca as a peptide that had to be cycled. And don’t even get me started when it comes to AIs. These people have no clue.

Is this a pattern at the places?

ya it's funny these big degrees and everything and docs don't know shit

 

[pumpflex7]

Medical doctors do what the AMA and their state boards tell them to do. They are further limited by insurance companies as far as what treatments will be paid and what policy guidelines to follow. They are not allowed to think.

very true, and if they do, they lose their jobs many times

 

[pumpflex7]

Kind of makes one wonder what world we live in where hormone therapy for grown men is taboo while var for little girls is celebrated.

its a very sad and fucked up

 

[Synergistic Labs]

Anyone else notice this?

Had a provider tell me var was mainly for fat loss. Another person at the same provider referred to deca as a peptide that had to be cycled. And don’t even get me started when it comes to AIs. These people have no clue.

Is this a pattern at the places?

Completely agree that this is a pattern at numerous HRT clinics. Many providers are not taught about hormone replacement therapy in medical school and the majority of learning they have to do on their own. This is because it has not been a high demand field. There are many clinics that are popping up left and right, and a lot of clinics are prescribing "cookie cutter protocols". It does not make sense to start testosterone replacement therapy with an aromatase inhibitor in place. True TRT should not require the use of an aromatase inhibitor in most cases.