Russian Roulette

[alfresco]

The mods can just delete this or ask me to take it down
because I know this is now a particularly popular position.
It is not a Holier-than-thou attitude, I just feel compelled
to at least say something when I read some of these posts.
So here goes.

We have all seen these threads / questions before . . .

Is it just me or does anybody else find it odd that, for
instance, a person would do potentially harmful things
to themselves, take advice, though well intended, from
total strangers, just to get their testosterone levels down
to a low level so they get testosterone? Or even, get
more testosterone? Who's fooling whom?

And if you really think about it, many of the members
here that do post images of themselves, could in fact,
have achieved the same results without steroids.

Is has been clearly demonstrated that it really does not
take that much of an anabolic substance to produce huge
muscular gains if you have the genetics and do all the
required anxiliary things like diet and proper training. If you
don't, then all the drugs in the world will not get it done.
And if just happen to be one of those people that benefit
from boat loads of gear, you would know it by now. It
does not take years and years to figure this one out.

Anybody who had read any of my posts knows my feeling
on steroids. I think all anabolic steroids should be legal.
They can and should be used responsibly. But when the
side effects and admitted abuse that appear so frequently
place a burden on the health care system of our society,
the social stability of our great society, that's when I have
a problem. And when your problem becomes my problem,
I'm not a happy camper.

My unsolicited opinion . . . under a doctors supervision, get
your body (back?) to it's healthful state and them find out
what you need to do to get you where you want to go; with
regular blood tests and under a doctors supervision. It can
be done. And if you don't have the money for that, then you
don't have the money for the drugs. Again, my opinion.

So, cycle all you want . . . just be upfront and honest with
a good health care professional so you don't destroy your
endocrine system, your self image, and your health trying to
reach some idealized, unattainable short term goal, trying
to be something you are not, or ever will be, regardless of
what you take, or do, or how you feel about it.

Would you play Russian Roulette if there were other games in town?

 

[hellraiser27]

Its a chance we take for the lifestyle. If you tell a doctor then you will lose any healthcare you may have. Using steroids is a personal choice. I accept the risk. I react very well to steroids. I'm not going to get the same results going natural. I did it for too many years.
I like the results I get from steroids. I am happy I do them.

I am completely honest about my steroid use. I'm not here to BS anybody. I do what I do and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

 

[Dad]

A great post, Al - and no, it's not just yuo that's finds so much of this kind of thing odd.

 

[BigBoyJ]

Well, if you happen to know a good doctor with knowledge of exogenous hormones and it's roll in physical/appearance enhancement maybe you can point us all in that direction. I don't think there's a person here who wouldn't LOVE to do everything safely and legally if that were an option. Most doctors, even endocrinologists know VERY little of hormone usage for OUR purposes. Therefore, we're required to rely on personal experience from others, trial and error and what little science that exists as it pertains to us. Steroids are just not something that we can request from a doctor with the excuse "I really want to look better and be stronger, will you give me some testosterone?" It doesn't work like that. You'll be ridiculed and given the "steroids are unhealthy" speech. After that happens, you'll be left with the only other option we have, a full circle back to the peers we rely on for information.

 

[BigBoyJ]

A while back, these "longevity clinics" used to be pretty liberal about prescibing - don't know if that's still the case. A few of these were pretty upscale affairs with knowledgable people.

That's true, Dad. But, just like all good things, it came to an end. The government has been cracking down on those too. I have a friend that had his records seized and his prescribing doctor was indicted. And this was from such a clinic as you mentioned.

 

[Dad]

Yikes - though I'm not surprised.

 

[gimmejuice]

The mods can just delete this or ask me to take it down
because I know this is now a particularly popular position.
It is not a Holier-than-thou attitude, I just feel compelled
to at least say something when I read some of these posts.
So here goes.

We have all seen these threads / questions before . . .

Is it just me or does anybody else find it odd that, for
instance, a person would do potentially harmful things
to themselves, take advice, though well intended, from
total strangers, just to get their testosterone levels down
to a low level so they get testosterone? Or even, get
more testosterone? Who's fooling whom?

And if you really think about it, many of the members
here that do post images of themselves, could in fact,
have achieved the same results without steroids.

Is has been clearly demonstrated that it really does not
take that much of an anabolic substance to produce huge
muscular gains if you have the genetics and do all the
required anxiliary things like diet and proper training. If you
don't, then all the drugs in the world will not get it done.
And if just happen to be one of those people that benefit
from boat loads of gear, you would know it by now. It
does not take years and years to figure this one out.

Anybody who had read any of my posts knows my feeling
on steroids. I think all anabolic steroids should be legal.
They can and should be used responsibly. But when the
side effects and admitted abuse that appear so frequently
place a burden on the health care system of our society,
the social stability of our great society, that's when I have
a problem. And when your problem becomes my problem,
I'm not a happy camper.

My unsolicited opinion . . . under a doctors supervision, get
your body (back?) to it's healthful state and them find out
what you need to do to get you where you want to go; with
regular blood tests and under a doctors supervision. It can
be done. And if you don't have the money for that, then you
don't have the money for the drugs. Again, my opinion.

So, cycle all you want . . . just be upfront and honest with
a good health care professional so you don't destroy your
endocrine system, your self image, and your health trying to
reach some idealized, unattainable short term goal, trying
to be something you are not, or ever will be, regardless of
what you take, or do, or how you feel about it.

Would you play Russian Roulette if there were other games in town?

I'd say obesity is a drastically larger burdon on humanity than hormone supplements taken by athletic people..

As for Russian Roulette - I'm into skydiving and rock climbing.. I guess I like risky stuff. However, my life is full of experiences and achivements that most people will never experience. I think excitement in life is important.

Everone finds there own path. Some peoples' paths are video games, mcdonalds and television shows. Many people merely exist. Perhaps I'm getting off topic..

GJ

 

[hellraiser27]

can't help myself

I will never understand why people hang out in bars and tell people that alcohol is bad for them.

This board is supported by sponsors. Without them, this board would not exist.
None of them are doctors. See all the colorful banners? The blinkie lights?

Just because one person doesn't respond to steroids the same as another, doesn't make it any more right.

The people who believe that BB,(professional, amuature, or hobby) is not saturated with steroids, regaurdless of what they could obtain naturally, are in complete denial.
These are the same people who believe baseball players don't use steroids either.

I won't post anymore on this thread I promise!

 

[SacToSD]

you make a good point about the discrepancy between personal health decisions and personal health decisions under a physician's guidance, with respect to the law. I won't make any arguments about how the same could be said for narcotics/stimulants, because I don't think they're safe -- but steroids are, given proper medical oversight. I don't think, however, that steroids are illegal because of their potential for misuse and associated health problems. If I recall correctly, the anabolic steroids ban from circa 1990 was based on the problem of steroid use in professional sports, and a few isolated incidents where people misused them and had adverse effects. During the council that convened to discuss how steroids should be treated under the law (as in what level of illegality they should possess), the FDA and AMA (food and drug administration and american medical association) and another big gov't bureau all advised that steroids should not be scheduled along with narcotics and stimulants. Bush, the president at the time, went against this ruling and signed the anti steroids act, making them scheduled drugs -- technically no different than hard drugs. Essentially, they tried to ban steroids in sports by making it a crime for civilians to use them... an ineffective way to address use by either population. I think that lots of behaviors are dangerous to people's safety, like rock climbing and sky diving, but we don't make them illegal, do we? That's the analogy they made in the movie "Bigger, Stronger, Faster," and I think it's a good one.

 

[machola]

i'm gonna go shot for shot because i agree with some and i disagree with some

Is it just me or does anybody else find it odd that, for
instance, a person would do potentially harmful things
to themselves, take advice, though well intended, from
total strangers, just to get their testosterone levels down
to a low level so they get testosterone? Or even, get
more testosterone? Who's fooling whom?makes me think of the thread today about this exact thing where the 1st reply was a well known vet saying he did the same thing and here's what worked for me. i've seen a few posts like this. nothing about the methods i've seen(i don't know where the thread went after that post) are very dangerous. its like drink alcohol, lots of cardio, little sleep, don't eat much, maybe take an otc designer like tren-x or sus500 and your test levels plummet. since they would only do this for a day or 2 before the test is relatively harmless. less dangerous than a night partying hard and who hasn't done that at some point... i don't see the danger

And if you really think about it, many of the members
here that do post images of themselves, could in fact,
have achieved the same results without steroids.
some could for sure.

Is has been clearly demonstrated that it really does not
take that much of an anabolic substance to produce huge
muscular gains if you have the genetics and do all the
required anxiliary things like diet and proper training. If you don't, then all the drugs in the world will not get it done. And if just happen to be one of those people that benefit from boat loads of gear, you would know it by now. It does not take years and years to figure this one out.
i agree
Anybody who had read any of my posts knows my feeling
on steroids. I think all anabolic steroids should be legal.
They can and should be used responsibly. But when the
side effects and admitted abuse that appear so frequently
place a burden on the health care system of our society,
the social stability of our great society, that's when I have
a problem. And when your problem becomes my problem,
I'm not a happy camper.
i agree.
My unsolicited opinion . . . under a doctors supervision, get
your body (back?) to it's healthful state and them find out
what you need to do to get you where you want to go; with
regular blood tests and under a doctors supervision. It can
be done. And if you don't have the money for that, then you
don't have the money for the drugs. Again, my opinion.
imo, i just wish people would be more safe about it. check bp frequently(you can do this at home. no doc needed), check cholesterol and liver function a couple times a year. if it goes out of whack stop what you're doing. "too much of a good thing" is very true.
So, cycle all you want . . . just be upfront and honest with
a good health care professional your health insurance would drop you so fast...so you don't destroy your
endocrine system, your self image, and your health trying to
reach some idealized, unattainable short term goal, trying
to be something you are not, or ever will be, regardless of
what you take, or do, or how you feel about it.

Would you play Russian Roulette if there were other games in town?

i prefer a live and let live philosophy. i'd just like people to be safe. so many people hurt themselves. its crazy. kidney failure, heart problems, liver failure, hypertension, etc. i've seen it all on the boards. its not worth it to me but thats me... my life is my business and other people's lives are their business as long as it doesn't affect me... but i do try to be the voice of reason when people start threads about medical problems

good post

 

[SacToSD]

Is it just me or does anybody else find it odd that, for
instance, a person would do potentially harmful things
to themselves, take advice, though well intended, from
total strangers, just to get their testosterone levels down
to a low level so they get testosterone? Or even, get
more testosterone? Who's fooling whom?

Yeah, that was my post. You could argue that there are health risks to getting a decreased amount of sleep, doing strenuous cardio for a few days, and skimping on protein shakes and fish oil, but to me, the consequences of dealing with low testosterone (eg loss of lean muscle, fat accumulation, increased risk of osteoporosis and bone fractures, increased risk of cardiovascular disease, fatigue, and sexual health problems) are far more serious than the effects of this 2 day testosterone lowering plan. Unfortunately for some of us, our testosterone levels border on the low end of normal, and we need an extra "kick" to qualify for hormone replacement therapy. I understand your concern, and I'm not trying to be rude here... but I'm not sure if you see it from my perspective, or not. Certainly, the suggestions about lowering testosterone are not for everyone... and on a board where people take their health as seriously as they do, I would hope that no one would take any of this information out of context or use it for the wrong reasons.