stuck

[strako44]

A good friend has decided to get in shape after 35 years of never eating healthy. He is 35... 6'1' and weighs 312Lbs ... over 50%+BF.

His diet: TOTAL FOR THE DAY 326gr protein 163gr carbs 55gr fats : 2562 calories daily
Cycle: 200mg of TE M and Th
Cardio x 2 week (understand he has never done any sort of cardio ever - gotta gradually add more.

I am training him at the gym and not taking it easy on him. First two week I had him concentrate on his form. This week we have intensified by a factor of 5. He is learning.

I have been competing since I was 16. I am in my late 50's. Not a newbie to the game. Have trained multiple athletes. Yet, I am humbled to say that I don't understand how he is not losing weight, but seems to be putting on weight. I spoke to a good friend (no names - please) who had two athletes at the Olympia last year. His conclusion is that he is cheating. I am not an easy guy to get along with as I expect perfection especially when I am doing this free of charge. I hate wasting my time even when I got paid.

He tell me that he is not cheating. Yet at 2,500 calories a day. I am killing him in the gym and doing cardio twice a week. I am dumbfounded.

I am asking if anyone who are prepping or have prepped athletes in the past have ever experience anything of this sort. Or is he lying to me. Which is swears he is not.

Let's keep it positive.

Thanks for any or all responses.

 

[Bio]

Regardless of the scale, do you notice any change in his physique? What does he do the rest of the day?

 

[danieltx]

He's very likely cheating.

Look at this logically - he's 312lbs. and over 50% body fat. Nobody gets to that point by accident. They do it through years of poor lifestyle choices, mainly diet. He's been used to shoveling shit food in his mouth for years and I'm sure it's going to be hard for him to stop. Plus now that he's training his appetite might be increased.

Tell him if he doesn't lose weigh over the next week you're done working with him. That's a very easy way to tell if he's cheating because if he is and he drops the extra shit food his weight should easily drop for the week.

 

[Fleezy]

he's either cheating, or his body defies the laws of thermodynamics


you can decide which option you believe

 

[plane]

I don’t think you should go straight into training all out with him given all of your experience training - the techniques/intensity you train at has likely been accumulated, he is a beginner and should learn like one. I think you’re expecting a bit much here his metabolism is fucked from his lifestyle, he isn’t gonna respond well. As for him, adhering to your diet is likely fucking impossible (in his mind I mean, he has 35 years of not being a bodybuilder; he isn’t gonna suddenly be able to dial in nutrition. Most of us cheat our diet here and there even with disicipline and constant repetition to teach us)


Good luck, this will be a rare case and a great achievement for you both if you manage to whip him into good condition

 

[stackdizzy]

If he just started the cycle he could just be adding water weight. Fat cells have androgen receptors as well and he has a lot of fat. So it really depends on how long you been going at it. Also if again it's fairly new his body could be just in shock and trying to hold on to everything. Which it would only do temporarily. Plus your not doing a lot of cardio yet.
Just trying to find some reasons other than cheating as that's definitely a strong possibility.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

If he’s really a good friend you may have to (unfortunately) kill his appetite w semaglutide or similar, so he starts seeing some results and gets motivated to not cheat. It’s not ideal but i’ve had to deal with something similar w a friend. Fucking infuriating but i didn‘t wanna see him dead either so

 

[strako44]

Bio - I have been around for a long time. I am noticing changes. My wife reminded me today of what I have preached for many many years... don't look at the scale. Which Is great advise and advise I have given hundreds of time, but on 2,500 calories a day, weight should be dropping - instead he is gaining. As to the intensity of his training. Let me rephrase. The first two weeks we started dumbbell press with 20lbs. I am have been doing this for to long to hurt anyone purposely. I am not a newbie. Some know who I am. Intensity is 30 second rest between sets. He is still lifting light yet his rest time is no more than 30 seconds. double his lifting capacity in the third week (this week). When I say entensify by a factor of 5, as an example he was doing 10-20lbs for shoulder presses, now he is up to 30-40 lbs and instead of 2 sets we are doing three. Goes for all that I would expect of a newbie. I stopped prepping others in 2015 (was tired and just drained) and my last stage showing was in 2013. So, I am throwing this bundle of confusion at you all as I want to truly help him. He came to me begging that he wants to change his lifestyle. Some of you may have done this or maybe doing it now. As we age we want to help - especially a good friend. Yet, I find it agonizing that I spent hours conversing with him, writing his diet, training him, yet feel betrayed if he is lying. We know how much it takes to be committed. He swears he is not cheating.

 

[Hammer4]

Not to derail from the main point but why so much test? 400 mg is double what he would "need" IMHO. To your question, I think intermittent fasting would be an easier option for someone who has no sense of calories or satiation.

 

[strako44]

If he just started the cycle he could just be adding water weight. Fat cells have androgen receptors as well and he has a lot of fat. So it really depends on how long you been going at it. Also if again it's fairly new his body could be just in shock and trying to hold on to everything. Which it would only do temporarily. Plus your not doing a lot of cardio yet.
Just trying to find some reasons other than cheating as that's definitely a strong possibility.

My thoughts as well, yet on 2,500 calories the weight should be coming off not going up.

 

[strako44]

Not to derail from the main point but why so much test? 400 mg is double what he would "need" IMHO. To your question, I think intermittent fasting would be an easier option for someone who has no sense of calories or satiation.

Fasting on a individual who is 312 lbs close to 60%Bf would surely make him quit. He is not ready for that. this guy has lived of Burger King and McDonalds most of his life. Asking someone like him to do intermittent fasting would be closing the coffin on his commitment.

 

[strako44]

Regardless of the scale, do you notice any change in his physique? What does he do the rest of the day?

Bio I have answered further down. He works installing alarms. Yet, has spent a lifetime eating burger king and fast-food. He is a great guy - a truly humble man who want to really change it all around. I tell him that telling me the truth is the first steps to getting this done. The longer he lies and the more I ask, he will feel pressured and that he letting me down to the point that he will quit.

 

[stackdizzy]

Oh I am sorry I just read he is on 400mgs a week of test.....that's just way too much for him and I suspect your culprit I thought 200mg a week. Really his body is the most fucked up hormone factory there is. The less you add the better.

 

[stackdizzy]

My thoughts as well, yet on 2,500 calories the weight should be coming off not going up.

Yea man I have a couple of really really fat family members and they got to get down to 17-1800 calories to lose weight. Like 400 pounders and they are actually pretty strong for not lifting that much. When my bro just started trt he gained like 30lbs at 100gs a week. So if he trusts the guy there is definitely other (more likely imo) reasons. If weight loss was the goal I'd drop the test all together personally if it were me.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Bio I have answered further down. He works installing alarms. Yet, has spent a lifetime eating burger king and fast-food. He is a great guy - a truly humble man who want to really change it all around. I tell him that telling me the truth is the first steps to getting this done. The longer he lies and the more I ask, he will feel pressured and that he letting me down to the point that he will quit.

The friend i referenced, i got pretty fucking mad about the bullshit i was getting, so i started showing up at his place and going through his fridge. Yeah he got embarrassed, oh well don’t waste my time then dickhead. Only took about 3x for the bullshit to stop.

i was never able to get him to fully commit, but he’s what the general population would call a ”regular looking guy” now instead of a fat ass. Been on track for a while now so it’s the best realistic outcome i can ask for i guess

 

[alfresco]

Forgive me if this has already been answered.

How long has he been on a calorie restricted diet?

When was the last time he had a full set of labs done?

You obviously think it is not too early to add some some AAS, may I ask why?

I think it is great you are helping him.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

did u give him an exact eating plan or more macros? Either way, he is either lying or simply heavily underestimating his caloric intake (and adding sauces and that type of shit).

He should also be walking everyday, slowly increasing cardio. And also, if I may ask, why the hell is he on gear? You’ve given us info saying this dude is a total newb, never trained or eaten well…but he’s taking gear? What a waste. Was this your recommendation or someone else’s?

 

[stackdizzy]

Bio - I have been around for a long time. I am noticing changes. My wife reminded me today of what I have preached for many many years... don't look at the scale. Which Is great advise and advise I have given hundreds of time, but on 2,500 calories a day, weight should be dropping - instead he is gaining. As to the intensity of his training. Let me rephrase. The first two weeks we started dumbbell press with 20lbs. I am have been doing this for to long to hurt anyone purposely. I am not a newbie. Some know who I am. Intensity is 30 second rest between sets. He is still lifting light yet his rest time is no more than 30 seconds. double his lifting capacity in the third week (this week). When I say entensify by a factor of 5, as an example he was doing 10-20lbs for shoulder presses, now he is up to 30-40 lbs and instead of 2 sets we are doing three. Goes for all that I would expect of a newbie. I stopped prepping others in 2015 (was tired and just drained) and my last stage showing was in 2013. So, I am throwing this bundle of confusion at you all as I want to truly help him. He came to me begging that he wants to change his lifestyle. Some of you may have done this or maybe doing it now. As we age we want to help - especially a good friend. Yet, I find it agonizing that I spent hours conversing with him, writing his diet, training him, yet feel betrayed if he is lying. We know how much it takes to be committed. He swears he is not cheating.

Man I just saw you're in the third week. Sorry I missed that its most likely water from the test. He very well could be losing body fat. I have already stated this but I would drop the test out personally and I would bet you'll see changes. I wouldn't even do trt as throwing more hormones at him is a mistake imo... but if you have to not over 100mgs a week. Also try and talk him into semaglutide or tirzepatide as someone else already stated, he probably will be able to keep it together a lot longer with that. I would personally just dump weights in favor of more cardio and maybe add weights in after he has shredded a significant amount of weight...or maybe some sort of circuit training. I have had a lot of people ask me about juice when they are just too fat and none of them have been disappointed with the final result when I told them not to take anything until after you've lost weight. In most cases I never even hear from them again about it. Plus every gym has that guy that managed to gain 30lbs on juice and is now using the 110s on bench up from the 100s and flexes his arms in the mirror. (you kind of want to ask him what he sees exactly when he does that)

Also I would tell him about times you have fucked up with your diet and how you threw away days of hard work away(or something to that effect) just to get him comfortable with knowing it happens. That way he'll be more open to sharing his diet fails if and when that happens and you can get a better understanding of the situation. Personally I think just expecting him to become this machine is a little unrealistic. I don't know how long you've trained people so apologies in advance if this seems a little basic and that's not to take away from what anyone else has contributed in this thread. Also never trust a fat person(lol jk)

 

[strako44]

did u give him an exact eating plan or more macros? Either way, he is either lying or simply heavily underestimating his caloric intake (and adding sauces and that type of shit).

He should also be walking everyday, slowly increasing cardio. And also, if I may ask, why the hell is he on gear? You’ve given us info saying this dude is a total newb, never trained or eaten well…but he’s taking gear? What a waste. Was this your recommendation or someone else’s?

I under

 

[strako44]

I have been doing this for a very long time. He got himself on test. His test levels were non existent. Please understand my friend has been obese all his life. Gear, he went to one a HRT clinic. One of his client he installed cameras and alarm system. The PA (Physician Assistant) who is a bodybuilder as well put him on the test. So, before you all believe this was my doing, not at all. I come in with diet and training. I have a 2,400st. gym at home. As I have explained I have been lifting since I was 14 and did my first show at 16. I have 23 shows under my belt. Have competed at the USA. Why I posted on this matter, is he is losing confidence as many who find themselves in the situation he is in. I have had him on a diet for two months, the first month he lost 16lbs. The HRT guy upped his dose to 400mg from 200mg a week. I was against it, but it is what it is. Everyone places all their cookies with someone who wears a white coat. I have a hard time accepting anything anyone tells me because I know my body better than anyone.

Yes, I had him do bloods. It was the firs thing I had him do. Quite interesting is the PA did not have him do bloods. Yet assume he he low test. His Panel came back looking like they belong to someone who is obese has been on a Fast Food diet all their lives.

My part: Started him on cardio twice a week. 45 minutes - going for a walk. As I have explained further up. the lifting has intensified, but intensified from doing 20lb dumbbell presses to 35lb after three week. I wanted to teach him form as we all know that 90+% of people in gyms have terrible form. With form and time I can increase little by little. He says he fits into shorts he was not able to wear for years.

Yet, he has been stagnant since the onset of the test or increase to 400mg's a week.

His diet was individualized to him. I did a BMR/TDEE and his maintenance caloric intake is 4,300 calories. So, I restricted his calories to 2,561 a day. It's simple 2 + 2 = 4 I dropped over a 1,000 calories and he is not moving. Actually he has gone up in weight. I feel that with gear and all he should be dropping due to the restrictive calories. Why I am upset is that if he took the leap to take gear against my advise and is cheating, this is a complete joke and I am spending my time training him in the gym and advising him on his diet daily and how he needs to stick to it.

Hopefully you all get a better picture now and I know he must be cheating and I am close to calling it quits. I am letting him read all of this. So he understands that gear was not necessary or maybe just a TRT dose.

I want to thank you all for the great posts.