T4 makes HGH more anabolic

johnjuanb1 · Apr 10, 2018

itconsulting said:
For the one using T4 while using GH, aren't you worried about the long shutdown of your thyroid when you stop?

Every post I’ve read says it comes back gradually over a few weeks so taper off. I know tapering down from 225mcg to 100mcg had me lethargic for about a week.

johnjuanb1 · May 16, 2018

I upped my HGH from 3ius to 5ius and my T4 from 100mcg to 125mcg and i look so much more full. It’s a huge difference. I may push the HGH higher this summer.

notorius · May 16, 2018

johnjuanb1 said:
I upped my HGH from 3ius to 5ius and my T4 from 100mcg to 125mcg and i look so much more full. It’s a huge difference. I may push the HGH higher this summer.

I thought you gave up on BB.

johnjuanb1 · May 16, 2018

notorius said:
I thought you gave up on BB.

Hahaha i doubt I’ll compete again but i try just as hard as ever. I have to stay in shape to stay happy.

This is today at the gym. We have an outdoor gym which i love.

GnastyMcnasty · May 18, 2018

Looking good brother. So what kind of results did you see from adding T4 to your HGH and how soon did they take effect? Did you experience and catabolism? That's my main worry as I experience some when I ran T3 back in the day. What kind of gear are you running currently?

johnjuanb1 · May 18, 2018

GnastyMcnasty said:
Looking good brother. So what kind of results did you see from adding T4 to your HGH and how soon did they take effect? Did you experience and catabolism? That's my main worry as I experience some when I ran T3 back in the day. What kind of gear are you running currently?

With T4 your body only converts what it needs to T3 so it’s less apt to cause catabolism. I noticed quicker fat loss. It takes time to build in your system but i felt it sped up results pretty quickly.
I’m on
500mg sustanon
400mg deca
50mg anadrol/day
Dbol preworkout on arm day
Tadalifil preworkout
100mcg T4
5ius HGH Meditrope
12.5mg MK-677
Melanotan II every few days

GnastyMcnasty · May 19, 2018

johnjuanb1 said:
With T4 your body only converts what it needs to T3 so it’s less apt to cause catabolism. I noticed quicker fat loss. It takes time to build in your system but i felt it sped up results pretty quickly.
I’m on
500mg sustanon
400mg deca
50mg anadrol/day
Dbol preworkout on arm day
Tadalifil preworkout
100mcg T4
5ius HGH Meditrope
12.5mg MK-677
Melanotan II every few days

Very nice stack. It's actually pretty similar to mine. Mine is

700 mg Test E
450 Deca (which I'm dropping - will explain why below)
600 primo
400 mast (to counteract the lack of androgenicity from deca)
50 mg proviron (same reason, give androgenic component)
50 mg adrol
50 mg dbol

Running about 7 iu of Blue Tops

Does deca fuck with you at all? Ive noticed that it makes me more anxious and seems to zap me of my swagger/confidence, kind of like I feel with high estro. I fucking hate it. Ive experienced it in the past so I tried to pre-empt it this time with proviron and masteron, but they are not enough to counteract it. It sucks. I'm dropping it this week.

My theory on why deca does this to me is because it converts to DHB instead of DHT and thus lowers DHT levels somehow. Same theory behind cause of deca dick. That's my reasoning behind trying mast and proviron to counteract it. But it could be something totally different unrelated to DHB and DHT. Whatever it is it fucks with me.

Btw I saw in another thread you want something to counteract the blood sugar effects of GH - well I've got a little known gem for ya. I take multiple things bc I am actually diabetic (although my A1C was 6.1 a month ago). The best anti-hypeRglycemic agent by far imo is canagliflozin. Really accentuates the fat loss from GH, increases insulin sensitivity, lowers BP, and lowers blood sugar. 100-300 mg a day depending on how much GH you're running. You can get it at alldaychemist. It can get pricey depending on how much you need but it's a secret of mine Ive discovered and have found to be extremely effective (esp combined with GH and for purposes of fat loss. Awesome synergy). Thought I'd share with the community

johnjuanb1 · May 19, 2018

GnastyMcnasty said:
Very nice stack. It's actually pretty similar to mine. Mine is

700 mg Test E
450 Deca (which I'm dropping - will explain why below)
600 primo
400 mast (to counteract the lack of androgenicity from deca)
50 mg proviron (same reason, give androgenic component)
50 mg adrol
50 mg dbol

Running about 7 iu of Blue Tops

Does deca fuck with you at all? Ive noticed that it makes me more anxious and seems to zap me of my swagger/confidence, kind of like I feel with high estro. I fucking hate it. Ive experienced it in the past so I tried to pre-empt it this time with proviron and masteron, but they are not enough to counteract it. It sucks. I'm dropping it this week.

My theory on why deca does this to me is because it converts to DHB instead of DHT and thus lowers DHT levels somehow. Same theory behind cause of deca dick. That's my reasoning behind trying mast and proviron to counteract it. But it could be something totally different unrelated to DHB and DHT. Whatever it is it fucks with me.

Btw I saw in another thread you want something to counteract the blood sugar effects of GH - well I've got a little known gem for ya. I take multiple things bc I am actually diabetic (although my A1C was 6.1 a month ago). The best anti-hypeRglycemic agent by far imo is canagliflozin. Really accentuates the fat loss from GH, increases insulin sensitivity, lowers BP, and lowers blood sugar. 100-300 mg a day depending on how much GH you're running. You can get it at alldaychemist. It can get pricey depending on how much you need but it's a secret of mine Ive discovered and have found to be extremely effective (esp combined with GH and for purposes of fat loss. Awesome synergy). Thought I'd share with the community

I never come off deca. It’s the one thing i stay on. I don’t get any sides from it. I’ve never had progesterone sides from that or tren. I stay on it for my bad knees.

GnastyMcnasty · May 19, 2018

Do you do anything for cholesterol being on deca indefinitely like that?

I'm gonna substitute LGD for the deca to get some AR dependent muscle growth going

johnjuanb1 · May 19, 2018

GnastyMcnasty said:
Do you do anything for cholesterol being on deca indefinitely like that?

I'm gonna substitute LGD for the deca to get some AR dependent muscle growth going

Nah. I don’t stress over cholesterol. My entire diet is turkey breast, vegetables, fruit, oats, rice, whey, fish oil and extra virgin olive oil. I eat cheat food after work on Friday night. The diet is so clean I’m not concerned with cholesterol issues. Besides, cholesterol levels are for the most part genetic.

G.I.Bro · May 19, 2018

This write up about T4 with GH being optimal for synergy has been questioned for years. I don't think we can really take it as established fact or gospel. It's Anthony Roberts' theory and there are some flaws too. A lot of it is unsubstantiated and basically bro science with references that are quasi applicable.

See the discussion here (and elsewhere) on his article.

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/why-you-should-be-running-t4-with-your-gh.134386686/

I mean I personally think having optimal thyroid hormone range is always beneficial. I'm just not sure the science here linking t4 to making gh more "anabolic" actually holds up. Anthony Roberts' is not even qualified to be wading in this deep end of the pool. His theory gets way convoluted...

jolter · May 19, 2018

Johnjuan can u pm me please?

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

johnjuanb1 · May 19, 2018

G.I.Bro said:
This write up about T4 with GH being optimal for synergy has been questioned for years. I don't think we can really take it as established fact or gospel. It's Anthony Roberts' theory and there are some flaws too. A lot of it is unsubstantiated and basically bro science with references that are quasi applicable.

See the discussion here (and elsewhere) on his article.

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/why-you-should-be-running-t4-with-your-gh.134386686/

I mean I personally think having optimal thyroid hormone range is always beneficial. I'm just not sure the science here linking t4 to making gh more "anabolic" actually holds up. Anthony Roberts' is not even qualified to be wading in this deep end of the pool. His theory gets way convoluted...

I agree. I think most every theory we come across is bro science. Just look at medical experts and how much one contradicts another. Same with medical studies. I think it’s best to try various things for yourself and see what happens. I don’t notice faster muscle gains since adding T4 to my HGH. I do see more detail in terms of thinner skin and more tiny veins in my obliques and midsection. I like the results but maybe i would have gotten them from the HGH alone. It’s hard to say. I am going to continue with my 100-125mcg T4 while fasted in the morning with my 5ius HGH. I may raise or lower HGH and T4 as I go. I pretty much wing it with everything i take.

johnjuanb1 · May 19, 2018

jolter said:
Johnjuan can u pm me please?

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

I answered all my pm’s. Resend it please.

GnastyMcnasty · Jun 1, 2018

So exactly what difference do you notice when running HGH with or without T4?

johnjuanb1 · Jun 1, 2018

GnastyMcnasty said:
So exactly what difference do you notice when running HGH with or without T4?

For me i notice faster fat loss with the addition of T4. I think my growing days are gone here at almost age 50. But the T4 really leans me out. Since stopping adrol and MK-677 the water went away and i can see just how much fat i lost. A big area of fat for me is in the sides of my lower back. I was pleasantly surprised when i reached back and grabbed my fat. I had a fist full but now it’s like 3/4 of an inch that I can grab. I dropped about 10Lbs of water which is insane!

GnastyMcnasty · Jun 1, 2018

Right on. I'm on close to 8 iu Blue Tops right now and find I need 200 mcg daily to ward off lethargy. Was your body ever able to acclimate to a dose of GH that high without T4?

Also, when you finally tapered off T4, did you just lower by 50 mcg a week? How bad was the lethargy when tapering off at that rate?

johnjuanb1 · Jun 1, 2018

GnastyMcnasty said:
Right on. I'm on close to 8 iu Blue Tops right now and find I need 200 mcg daily to ward off lethargy. Was your body ever able to acclimate to a dose of GH that high without T4?

Also, when you finally tapered off T4, did you just lower by 50 mcg a week? How bad was the lethargy when tapering off at that rate?

This is the bad part. I’m actually afraid to stop using T4 because i keep losing body fat and i don’t want to slow the process. I missed T4 for 1.5 days and couldn’t get up. Even stimulants didn’t help. So i will have to taper T4 super slowly with maybe 20% less per week. I dropped from 200mcg to 100mcg which only took a week to adjust to. I’ve been on T4 i think since last year in November. After stopping anadrol and MK-677 i now get to see how much fat i actually lost and i must say I’m very, very pleased! I wonder how bad it would be if i just stay on 100-125mcg T4 ? I started T4 and HGH together so i can’t say how bad HGH lethargy would be without T4. Plus, i was on MK-677 before adding HGH. The two stacked together was brutal on lethargy!!!

Also, i take Vicaine upon waking with flmodanifil and tianeptine so i have energy and feel great!
Even with Vicaine, taking HGH upon waking made me so tired at work until it wore off 7 hours later since i was taking it intramuscularly. Now i only take HGH post workout 3 days a week at night subcutaneously so i sleep through the lethargy. I switched to subQ HGH after hearing Nick Trigili used it that way. I know subQ has the highest conversion to IGF1.

MyNameIsJeff · Jun 2, 2018

johnjuanb1 said:
I know subQ has the highest conversion to IGF1.

To determine the optimal route of growth hormone administration, a comparison was made of the acute somatomedin response and chronic growth response to either intramuscular or subcutaneous growth hormone in 20 children with growth hormone deficiency. None of the children had received growth hormone for at least 2 weeks prior to their random selection to receive growth hormone by either the subcutaneous (N = 11) or intramuscular (N = 9) route. Plasma samples for determination of levels of insulin-like growth factors I and II (IGF-I and IGF-II) were obtained prior to therapy and 20 hours after the first and fourth of four daily injections of growth hormone. Growth rate and growth hormone antibody levels were determined before and after 6 months of therapy. IGF-I levels tripled in both treatment groups after four days of growth hormone injections, whereas IGF-II levels nearly doubled, with no significant difference between the intramuscular or subcutaneous group. After 6 months of therapy, there was no significant difference in growth rate and only two patients had developed growth hormone antibodies. Both patients and parents expressed a preference for the subcutaneous method. The identical rises in the IGF-I and IGF-II levels following a brief course of either subcutaneous or intramuscular injections of growth hormone, the similar growth rates, the low incidence of antibody development, and the preference for the subcutaneous route all suggest that the subcutaneous route is the method of choice for chronic growth hormone therapy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4034296

Plasma human growth hormone (hGH) profiles and biological activities of recombinant hGH were compared after im and sc injection in 8 normal volunteers. The time to reach maximal plasma GH and plasma hGH concentrations and the areas under the curve of hGH profiles did not differ significantly after im and sc injections. The biological effect of hGH in increasing nonesterified fatty acid and insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) was the same after both im and sc injections. During 6 months of daily sc administration of recombinant hGH in 20 naive patients, their height increased between 5 and 16.5 cm with a mean of 11.0 +/- 3.0 cm/year. In 27 patients who switched from hGH injections of 2-4 times/week to daily injections, the height increased between 5.3 and 16.5 cm with a mean of 8.3 +/- 2.2 cm/year. These values were greater than those observed in a previous study in which the same amount of hGH was injected in 2-4 doses per week. Plasma IGF-I increased more with daily sc administration than with 2-4 doses per week. The rate of appearance of an antibody to hGH was low (0.5%) and there were no notable changes in blood cell count, urinalysis and/or routine chemistries during the 6 months of daily recombinant hGH treatment. These results show that sc daily administration of hGH is safe, has a greater growth promoting effect, and can be recommended for the treatment of patients with GH deficiency.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3197659