The great insulin debate!

[The Wolf]

Im having a big argument in the gym, with my partner a top level amature and a doctor who happens to juice as well.
They are saying insulin is a very potent fat burner, Im saying it is fat gainer.
Ok so I have used it before to get into ketosis, but once in ketosis I stopped.

So whos right, they have proof to show me its a fat burner and I have proof that you can get fat on it.

Insulin users please chime in

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Depends how you use it. Iv seen it do both. One guy i know was 5'10 250's and LEAN. He used to let the slin get him close to hypo and he was a daredevil. Not smart IMO, but he was in tune with how he felt when he was hypo and took in JUST enough protein/carbs to keep him from goin into deep hypo and it kept him lean AND big.

The reason most of us gain bodyfat on it is because we overeat carbs in fear of going hypo (better safe than sorry IMO). BBJ has stated on a few occasions that he just took in more whey protein when going hypo and it solved his problem.

 

[gtj220]

i'm also curious about this, as far as I new it was better at getting you fat

 

[Tman2002]

I saw and article

once were some guys were taking insulin with no sugar just aminos and lots of whey protien powder. They were claiming you could take enough to stimulate gluconeogenisis.

 

[The Wolf]

So I suppose it all boils down to your diet, it can be used both ways, lose fat or add serious mass, so its a pretty usefull tool

 

[LEX]

once were some guys were taking insulin with no sugar just aminos and lots of whey protien powder. They were claiming you could take enough to stimulate gluconeogenisis.

I've experimented a little with that and isolate brings me outta the danger zone....not as fast as sugar but it does.

 

[massmaker56]

Ive never used slin but i was always under the impression that when your slin levels are spiked your body is more prone to storing cabs as fat. Unless in pre-workout. But like i said ive never used slin. So i could be way off.

 

[The Wolf]

Yeah but when your carbs are low they will be used up for energy and the insulin will cause gluconeogenisis and even put you in ketosis and blah blah blah, so they are saying. So depending on what your eating insulin could be a ver powerfull fat burner, so they say

 

[buselmo]

It won't help you burn fat... but it'll keep you full if you're dieting, and you use it on specific days only (2-3 times per week)... but aiding in burning fat?? i doubt it.

 

[bluto]

Gylcerol and Insulin

Since Glycerol/Glycerine does not cause a insulin spike like most carbs, and is not really classed as a sugar. Will it still cover you when taking insulin? For example if one was to take 10-15iu of fast acting slin then used Glycerol and Amino Acids, How much Glycerol would be needed?

Going by the old 10g of carbs per IU of slin (which is overkill for some people), Would 10iu of slin require 100ml of Glycerol?

Nothing gives me better pumps than 100ml Glycerol and 100g Protein from WPI taken about 90min before training, then just drink tonnes of water.

I imagine insulin with LBA's would be even better, im just not sure how much to use in relation to each other.

 

[mikeyt869]

i remember phil saying that glycerol shouldnt be used with slin it wont help you if your going hypo

 

[The Wolf]

It won't help you burn fat... but it'll keep you full if you're dieting, and you use it on specific days only (2-3 times per week)... but aiding in burning fat?? i doubt it.

Well bro, it helps brings on ketosis when your on low carbs and thats burning fat itself.

A controversial secret for getting into fat burning ketosis faster with Humulin R-8 hours instead of 3 days-and how you can get it!

There is a hardcore trick the pro's use that forces your body into ketosis within only 8 to 12 hours allowing more time for the body to burn fatty acid stores before your carb-up stage. The trick, originally brought to my attention by Dan Duchaine, is the use of Humulin R injectible insulin. Humulin R insulin is important compared to other types of insulin because it reaches its peak effect in 2 hours, causing a quick metabolic shift into ketosis. Using small amounts of insulin will cause your blood glucose to drop, in a quick and controlled manner. Glucose levels hit about 50 mg/ml and force your body into ketosis at a much faster rate. Insulin is one of the most controversial drugs used in bodybuilding today. The reality is that if you slip up and use too much insulin, you could enter a hypoglycemic coma, which could cause irreversible damage to your body and in some cases prove fatal. Please note that that the following information is highly controversial and provided solely for informational purposes
http://ecclessias.blogspot.com/2007/11/how-to-enhance-fat-metabolism-with.html




I personaly would use it after a cycle and diet so I could not only keep my gains but also stimulate new growth as Im recovering from a cycle.

 

[The Wolf]

This is quite an interesting article, mabe nothing to do with this subject but please read

**broken link removed**

 

[buselmo]

Well bro, it helps brings on ketosis when your on low carbs and thats burning fat itself.

Actually, no. while insulin is circulating in your blood stream, you won't mobilize any fat. you might get into ketosis quickly, but you'll still have a couple of weeks til your body switches fuel from glucose to ketones. The initial stages of ketosis will have you burning protein like crazy. Other than the fact that using insulin on low carb like that isn't the smartest thing to do, AND you're only using insulin for one day to lower the level of glucose in your body.

Wolf, i come from a country that is much like yours when it comes to this stuff... you'll have 200 people working out and juicing in the gym and only 1 or 2 of them get extremely great results, because of their genetics, and only genetics... they are the ones that will spread stuff like "insulin burns fat"... and "deca and dbol cycles are the way to go"... those same people think that potatoes are a great source of protein... anyway, some of these individuals have extreme insulin sensitivity with regards to their muscle tissue... they blow up on insulin and don't gain any fat... some of them lose fat too... that would be impossible to do for any other "non-genetically gifted" person.

 

[The Wolf]

I agree with you buselmo, but as you can see even here people will deabte about it. It would be nice to get other vets views on this subject

The reason Im saying that is becuase one of the dudes Im arguing with is a doctor and he of course has more credibility over me so my training partner sides with him.

 

[jayuk]

I agree with you buselmo, but as you can see even here people will deabte about it. It would be nice to get other vets views on this subject

The reason Im saying that is becuase one of the dudes Im arguing with is a doctor and he of course has more credibility over me so my training partner sides with him.

Insulin, albeit not directly, inhibits Lipolysis as its main use is to obv clear Glucose from the blood. A level of around 5mmol/l of blood glucose generaly stops lipolysis.......

So I guess, a question here, is; is he talking directly about Insulin, or indirectly?

I would agree with him, if, he was talking about the overall effect of Insulin, as it can drive down BG and thus get the body into fat burning mode FAR FAR quicker then anything known to man.

Does that help?

To summise, this is best way I can think of

Insulin regulates glucose metabolism, insulin stimulates lipogenesis, diminishes lipolysis, and increases amino acid transport into cells


Jayuk

 

[Flex4777]

ALWAYS comes down to your diet.

 

[bluto]

Genetics

Actually, no. while insulin is circulating in your blood stream, you won't mobilize any fat. you might get into ketosis quickly, but you'll still have a couple of weeks til your body switches fuel from glucose to ketones. The initial stages of ketosis will have you burning protein like crazy. Other than the fact that using insulin on low carb like that isn't the smartest thing to do, AND you're only using insulin for one day to lower the level of glucose in your body.

Wolf, i come from a country that is much like yours when it comes to this stuff... you'll have 200 people working out and juicing in the gym and only 1 or 2 of them get extremely great results, because of their genetics, and only genetics... they are the ones that will spread stuff like "insulin burns fat"... and "deca and dbol cycles are the way to go"... those same people think that potatoes are a great source of protein... anyway, some of these individuals have extreme insulin sensitivity with regards to their muscle tissue... they blow up on insulin and don't gain any fat... some of them lose fat too... that would be impossible to do for any other "non-genetically gifted" person.

I refuse to buy into the "genetics" is everything statement.

The power of the mind, damn hard work, patience, self belief and finding a training/diet system that works for you is more important in the long run.

I think in any sport the best of the best will have some degree of genetic ability but if theyu dont train hard and smart, they wont have any longevity and wont reach the pinnacle of that sport.

Insulin can definitly assist in fat loss if used correctly for that person, the whole diet, training, lifestlye has to work in unison. Its no different to any other supplement.

Clen burns fat but also stimulates appetite like crazy.

 

[Frank N. Steroid]

It could increase fat burning indirectly in terms of getting you into ketosis quicker,but the bottom line is - lypolysis is put on hold in the presence of insulin.

 

[The Wolf]

This is getting to be more heated than the argument in the gym, Im loving it, it would be nice if maybe Phil, BigA, Oldfella BigHeinz, Mainevent, ect ect told us their view as well, or even Dan Duchain come out of the grave and tell us bro.