when to start a 'size' cycle?

[natabolic]

my TP and i always argue about this. When do you guys think is the most appropriate time to start a cycle based on the goal of size?

My training partner says doesnt really matter, as long as you're reasonably lean. (<15%). He tends to get lean when running a cycle, even on 5000+ calories (and he by no means eats clean). That is why i believe it doesnt matter much to him.

I, personally, believe that someone should be pretty lean, (<10%) before starting a cycle trying to put on mass. even though i do not tend to put on much fat while on cycle, i still feel this way.

what are your guys thoughts? when is it most appropriate to start a mass cycle/diet?

 

[gettnlarge01]

I like to start at 10%-12% but never get above 15%-16%.

 

[booey]

The leaner, the better!

 

[claymore]

The leaner, the better!

I agree

 

[Johnny Smiles]

never...?

i don't see a point in doing a cycle to increase bodyfat. the goal should always be to decrease bodyfat and increase lean muscle. or at the worst incrase lean musce while maintaing reasonable bodyfat. thats what AAS is for thats what it can help you accomplish faster than being nattie.
i would never set out to increase bodyfat. only to increase lean muscle and i dont see how increasing bodyfat has anything to do with that goal.
-JS

 

[buselmo]

i don't see a point in doing a cycle to increase bodyfat. the goal should always be to decrease bodyfat and increase lean muscle. or at the worst incrase lean musce while maintaing reasonable bodyfat. thats what AAS is for thats what it can help you accomplish faster than being nattie.
i would never set out to increase bodyfat. only to increase lean muscle and i dont see how increasing bodyfat has anything to do with that goal.
-JS

I kinda get what you're saying... but probably 99% of the population who uses AAS and has a perfect training and diet program would gain some fat eating over maintenance calories.
I have yet to see anyone... and i mean anyone gain a lb over their stage weight without gaining fat in the process.
and just so you don't misunderstand me... i'm not saying "the only way to grow is to go to 20+% fat". if you start off at 10%, you can probably expect to end up gaining significant mass and reach 14% or something like that...
but it would be a lot more convenient if it were possible to leave a contest at 4%, and just stay there all the time while growing... sadly, that's impossible.

 

[Ness]

Everyday is different

I make steady gains and maintain the same body fat levels give or take 1-2%. I change my diet and what I do on a daily basis...works well and its actually simple to do.

 

[gettnlarge01]

I can lift heavier weights with the extra weight and bodyfat which allows me to add strength and size. That for me is the reason for doing a bulker to start with but when doing a cutter the goal is to drop bodyfat only and add a few pounds of muscle so my bodyweight stays the same.
I dont believe in getting fat and sloppy with the diet either

 

[Johnny Smiles]

I can lift heavier weights with the extra weight and bodyfat which allows me to add strength and size. That for me is the reason for doing a bulker to start with but when doing a cutter the goal is to drop bodyfat only and add a few pounds of muscle so my bodyweight stays the same.
I dont believe in getting fat and sloppy with the diet either

i think thats mainly what i am trying to say i believe too. sure i guess body fat going up is inevitable but hopefully to a small degree.
and being stronger when fatter helps i suppose but once you lose the fat you will lose that little extra strength it gave you so then you are again kinda just a strong as you would be without it... -JS

 

[tr]

The best time for growing is when you're reasonable lean, but everyone is different, not everyone can stay lean year round. Personally I've never been over 11-12% bf in my whole life (and I've gained 120lbs since I first started training) but I know a lot of guys whose get fat very easy if they are not watching their diet. What I like to do before a cycle is to diet for 2-4 weeks, get even leaner and better rebound during cycle.
About 3 months ago (right before cycle) I was 225 at 8%bf (207 lean pounds and 18 fat) now at 5000 cals 500-700g carbs 400g protein I'm 252 at 9% (230 lean mass pounds and ~22 fat). Of course I've gained fat (4-5 pounds), but also I've gained a lot more muscle mass than fat and actually I'm looking even leaner (at higher bf).
9 out of 10 times when someone is saying that he's gaining muscle and losing bf at the same time they are only fooling themselves...this is possible but only if the muscle was gained in the past and then lost at some point, but it's called re-gaining not gaining.

 

[Zomb131]

what exactly is a "size cycle" ?

 

[gettnlarge01]

JS, I'm not worried about keeping all the strength gained just the muscle gained.

 

[myosaurus]

I don't go over 12% bf and experience best gains after coming off cutter for few weeks then start bulking

 

[Silencer]

If you need to lean out, start a strict diet cycle with your gear (use something like Big A's "Competition Diet" in the articles section), and then once you reach your bf goal, start adding calories as needed to build more LBM.

The rebound effect you get from switching from dieting to a normal diet is pretty amazing. Of course, this whole process just calls for longer cycles, like 4-6 months duration.

 

[natabolic]

js

i don't see a point in doing a cycle to increase bodyfat. the goal should always be to decrease bodyfat and increase lean muscle. or at the worst incrase lean musce while maintaing reasonable bodyfat. thats what AAS is for thats what it can help you accomplish faster than being nattie.
i would never set out to increase bodyfat. only to increase lean muscle and i dont see how increasing bodyfat has anything to do with that goal.
-JS

im not saying that the goal of the cycle is to get fat, or even put on bodyfat. the question was "when do you think it is most appropriate to start a cycle" a lower body fat percentage, or does it not really matter much? i was in no way saying "bulk/size cycle" as a means of getting fat. haha.

but i definitely see what you're saying. using gear is no reason to get sloppy. and i agree 100%

 

[Johnny Smiles]

im not saying that the goal of the cycle is to get fat, or even put on bodyfat. the question was "when do you think it is most appropriate to start a cycle" a lower body fat percentage, or does it not really matter much? i was in no way saying "bulk/size cycle" as a means of getting fat. haha.

but i definitely see what you're saying. using gear is no reason to get sloppy. and i agree 100%

Gotcha
-JS

 

[liftalot79]

TO ME A CYCLE IS A CYCLE IS IT NOT

Your going to add muscle if your doing Test e & Deca or Test prop & Mast Prop.

So to me a Size cycle is one in the same.

 

[dabeast75]

A person starts a "size" cycle (also called bulking??) when he wants an increase in size.

Sorry, am I missing something??

What does the persons current BF % and what-not have to do with a person starting a bulker?

 

[Elvia1023]

A person starts a "size" cycle (also called bulking??) when he wants an increase in size.

Sorry, am I missing something??

What does the persons current BF % and what-not have to do with a person starting a bulker?

Agreed. The answer is logical to me... when one wants to add size. But obviously the leaner the better. I don't see the need in trying to add size if you can't get under 15%. Each to their own I guess but I always laugh when you get the fat one at about 20% saying he wants to get bigger and bulk to the max so is gonna do a high dose of test with dbol etc etc.

I agree with Johnny Smiles replies. But obviously if your gonna be eating more calories you may well increase bf slightly. But thats fine as long as lean muscle and strength are increasing significantly more.

 

[booey]

Your body can increase its lbm more efficiently when it is carrying less body fat.