Why steriods gains diminish after 8 weeks.

[The Scientist]

The following may be the answer (tentatively). this report on myostatin (a powerful muscle growth inhibitor) shows that after 8 weeks on Testoterone, myostatin levels rise significantly. Fortunately it's dependent on Testosterone levels and not muscle mass. When you stop the Test, myostatin levels go back to normal....

8-10 weeks is when the gains from a cycle peeter out.

Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration.

Lakshman KM, Bhasin S, Corcoran C, Collins-Racie LA, Tchistiakova L, Forlow SB, St Ledger K, Burczynski ME, Dorner AJ, Lavallie ER.
Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany Street, Boston, MA 02118, United States.
Methodological problems, including binding of myostatin to plasma proteins and cross-reactivity of assay reagents with other proteins, have confounded myostatin measurements. Here we describe development of an accurate assay for measuring myostatin concentrations in humans. Monoclonal antibodies that bind to distinct regions of myostatin served as capture and detector antibodies in a sandwich ELISA that used acid treatment to dissociate myostatin from binding proteins. Serum from myostatin-deficient Belgian Blue cattle was used as matrix and recombinant human myostatin as standard. The quantitative range was 0.15-37.50 ng/mL. Intra- and inter-assay CVs in low, mid, and high range were 4.1%, 4.7%, and 7.2%, and 3.9%, 1.6%, and 5.2%, respectively. Myostatin protein was undetectable in sera of Belgian Blue cattle and myostatin knockout mice. Recovery in spiked sera approximated 100%. ActRIIB-Fc or anti-myostatin antibody MYO-029 had no effect on myostatin measurements when assayed at pH 2.5. Myostatin levels were higher in young than older men (mean+/-S.E.M. 8.0+/-0.3 ng/mL vs. 7.0+/-0.4 ng/mL, P=0.03). In men treated with graded doses of testosterone, myostatin levels were significantly higher on day 56 than baseline in both young and older men; changes in myostatin levels were significantly correlated with changes in total and free testosterone in young men. Myostatin levels were not significantly associated with lean body mass in either young or older men. CONCLUSION: Myostatin ELISA has the characteristics of a valid assay: nearly 100% recovery, excellent precision, accuracy, and sufficient sensitivity to enable measurement of myostatin concentrations in men and women.
PMID: 19356623 [PubMed - in process]

 

[notpro]

Been wondering about this....

Do compounds become useless when used over say a 10 week period, do you need to completely change to other compunds to continue to grow?

 

[mrmarcus]

or do we have to increase dosage?

 

[boattail]

they've been talking for sometime about creating something that would stop myostatin in its tracks, i wish they'd hurry up with that, the muscle growth would be astounding

 

[mature muscle]

so what happens to guys on hrt.

 

[jimmyjones]

so what happens to guys on hrt.

Nothing abnormal would happen, HRT is for the purpose of normalizing hormone levels to those who are deficient. REAL HRT is not intended with supraphysiological doses, nor with bodybuilding in mind.

 

[BIG DUB]

I think it has more to do with reaching your saturation point. Your body is like a sponge and when you absorb all you can ie.) the gains stop.. the rest you take is just waste or it continues to "top off" all you metabolize during your cycle.

 

[Swifto]

Do compounds become useless when used over say a 10 week period, do you need to completely change to other compunds to continue to grow?

You can do both. But I'd switch compounds.

 

[ermac123]

Plenty of, admittedly anecdotal, evidence shows that short 4 - 5 week heavy cycles after a longer "priming" period will produce better LBM gains than a traditional 10-12 week cycle in obviously less time. This helps to solidify these theories to me.

 

[Newman]

Plenty of, admittedly anecdotal, evidence shows that short 4 - 5 week heavy cycles after a longer "priming" period will produce better LBM gains than a traditional 10-12 week cycle in obviously less time. This helps to solidify these theories to me.

That sounds really interesting.

What do you mean by "priming period"?

 

[dalvare1]

this just reinforces the effectiveness of blast and cruise cycling

 

[weltweite]

Doing some research, I noted that Test with GH lowers myostatin however... so I don't think that would be an issue when stacking the two. (i need to go back and pull up the study)

 

[qbkilla]

Plenty of, admittedly anecdotal, evidence shows that short 4 - 5 week heavy cycles after a longer "priming" period will produce better LBM gains than a traditional 10-12 week cycle in obviously less time. This helps to solidify these theories to me.

So you would reccomend short 4-5 week cycles with how long a break inbetween? I hve been thinking about this approach for a while. It should all even out if time on = time off.

 

[RV63T]

they've been talking for sometime about creating something that would stop myostatin in its tracks, i wish they'd hurry up with that, the muscle growth would be astounding

thats been the the works but once they do stop the myo, they cant control the muscle growth. eventually your organs cant handle the muscle you put on cuz you just keep putting it on. very short life span for some muscle.

now if they can get it were they can control it. the sport is dead and no need put in the hard work. your once 350lb buddy will pass you up without even trying.

 

[unoigo]

Interesting, I guess that's why Dave P suggests 16 week cycles changing compounds every 8 weeks.

 

[kid1dakota]

what about those otc myo supps on the market? just kidding,this is some great information guys as many do like short cycles.I've always done 10-12 then cruise.Maybe should blast harder for less time? then cruise.

 

[ermac123]

That sounds really interesting.

What do you mean by "priming period"?

Priming is basically an extended cut where your body basically "aches" to put on muscle, usually accomplished through calorie cycling, typically a CKD diet. The prime period usually lasts 8 weeks and the cycle is 4-5 depending on the compound.

Of course, this is second hand research... I don't know how PM feels about linking to other sites though for more in-depth information. I guess it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission:

**broken link removed**

This is a very good description from a respected member of another board.



There are plenty of things to discuss about this though... Unless you're frontloading, test E and Cyp are nearly useless, as the test "kicking in" is important.

If I were going to run this today, I'd set cycles up like this

Beginner:
Test Prop 150mg EOD (75mg ED)
Standard Nolva/Clomid PCT

Intermediate
Test Prop 75mg ED
Dbol 40mg ED
" PCT

Advanced
uhh, let someone else tell ya this...

Basically, you want to get massive gains for the first 4 weeks, obviously before myostatin builds. And you CAN keep all the gains, you do not need the extra 4-8 weeks to solidify. Plus, where do most of the sides from test usage come? You guessed it, when the test builds up =P.

And if anyone wants a link to a thread that I do not want to post here that goes more in depth, PM me, but the above link should suffice. And I claim NONE of this to be my own firsthand research...

 

[ermac123]

this just reinforces the effectiveness of blast and cruise cycling

This is similar, but blast/cruise is solely for advanced users. This is a much more beginner/intermediate friendly system that, in theory, is FAR less taxing on your body.

 

[The Scientist]

Action Reaction

The body has Action/Reaction periods and factors. Basically the body begins to adapt significantly to most attempts at altering homeostasis after 2-3 weeks. This sucked since the best results from a cycle usually came during days 10-30. But we can profited from this information and used it to our advantage by utilizing brief
phases and cycles of 21-30 days, (this is the point where cycles provided serious
results) then got out before side effects out weighed benefits.

"To be successful it is necessary to create maximum growth thresholds and stop before the body is able to achieve its own counter measure thresholds."
L. Rea.

 

[ermac123]

The body has Action/Reaction periods and factors. Basically the body begins to adapt significantly to most attempts at altering homeostasis after 2-3 weeks. This sucked since the best results from a cycle usually came during days 10-30. But we can profited from this information and used it to our advantage by utilizing brief
phases and cycles of 21-30 days, (this is the point where cycles provided serious
results) then got out before side effects out weighed benefits.

"To be successful it is necessary to create maximum growth thresholds and stop before the body is able to achieve its own counter measure thresholds."
L. Rea.

^^^^^
What he said. This is also why I believe test prop to be the most efficient testosterone.