My Kigtropin Log, From Kami!

[Ataraxia]

Hey guys! i know this is long over due but do to the circumstances it had to wait until now!
I have been off any sort of HGH or peps for 10 days now and i am going to get my baseline tested tomorrow and start up on the kigs immediately after testing, i don't like not being on GH
I plan on running 5iu 5-6 days per week and will split the doses when i feel like it... something similar to what alpha was doing... 2 AM 1.5 and then 1.5... i may do that for a while as long as it doesn't mess with my sleep like GH has done before when taken before bed...
If it does mess with my sleep i may do 5 iu all at once AM and then peps pre-bed... but when i do my second IGF-1 test i will make sure no peps are used 2 weeks prior to testing... i plan on getting another IGF-1 test in about a month...
Any suggestions?

 

[Ataraxia]

hey mods can you move this to the pep/GF section? Sorry i put it in the wrong section!! thanks

 

[bigsport]

I'm getting my popcorn ready

 

[kscowboy]

Very anxious to see the results. Keep us posted!!

 

[Jim550]

I'll be keeping an eye on the log as well bro, looking forward to seeing the lab results after you've been on for a month

 

[yzfrr11]

Subscribed.

BTW, will you have any other compounds on board (t4/t3, anabolics)?

 

[Ataraxia]

Subscribed.

BTW, will you have any other compounds on board (t4/t3, anabolics)?

yea im running 400mgs test and 400mgs mast E per week... also on T3 right now 50mcs this morning will test around 10:30 this AM fasted...
Does anyone know if T3 affects IGF-1 results? I have been running it for about 20 weeks now and need to start tapering off very soon! so i don't think i will be on T3 for the second test..

 

[yzfrr11]

yea im running 400mgs test and 400mgs mast E per week... also on T3 right now 50mcs this morning will test around 10:30 this AM fasted...
Does anyone know if T3 affects IGF-1 results? I have been running it for about 20 weeks now and need to start tapering off very soon! so i don't think i will be on T3 for the second test..

Bro, T3 is a very potent stimulus for IGF1. If you are hypo-thyroid, even slightly, your IGF1 response from HGH will be severely blunted. Anyone who is on HGH therapy should really be on thyroid support for several reasons. Why do you feel the need to stop your T3?

Here's what you need to know:

Don't run T3 with HGH. You want Synthroid 100-200mcg/d (T4). Or, you can use Armor thyroid which is 75mcgT4/18mcgT3. For several reasons, HGH needs T4 around to be optimally effective. T4 deiodination to T3 occurs in all tissues as needed. But T3 will not go to T4. If you are healthy and on HGH, you will convert all the T3 you need. However, if you take Cytomel, you will suppress your endogenous T4 production - and your HGH therapy will be sub-optimally effective. There is no sense in wasting expensive HGH, right?

Start your T4 empericaly at 100-150 mcg per day. Take on an empty stomach before breakfast. Do not eat for 1 hour after taking T4. You do not taper T4 or T3. Your starting dose is just an educated guess based on your training load and body weight. You must check TSH, T4, and T3 labs 4-6 weeks after you start and adjust accordingly.


HGH feeds back onto the hypothalamus and causes the release of somatostatin. Somatostatin inhibits several pituitary peptides including gh of course, but also TSH. So thyroid support is necessary when on hgh therapy, especially when on higher doses. Hypothyroidism is the primary cause of the lethargy one gets while on hgh treatment.

In order for your liver and peripheral somatic organs (muscle, mitochondria) to respond optimally to HGH therapy, hypothyroidism should be treated. Now I'm not suggesting that supra-physiological thyroid levels are better, however, your not getting all the benefit from your HGH if you are hypothyroid.

 

[manly327]

he is correct i have hashimoto's disease whenever i am on GH my doctors have to increase my dose of synthroid when i come off they have to decrease the amount because i will be hyper. they always have this strange look on their faces like WTF is going on here. lol

 

[yzfrr11]

he is correct i have hashimoto's disease whenever i am on GH my doctors have to increase my dose of synthroid when i come off they have to decrease the amount because i will be hyper. they always have this strange look on their faces like WTF is going on here. lol

Very interesting. Makes sense.

 

[KlingonFromUranus]

Bro, T3 is a very potent stimulus for IGF1. If you are hypo-thyroid, even slightly, your IGF1 response from HGH will be severely blunted. Anyone who is on HGH therapy should really be on thyroid support for several reasons. Why do you feel the need to stop your T3?

Here's what you need to know:

Don't run T3 with HGH. You want Synthroid 100-200mcg/d (T4). Or, you can use Armor thyroid which is 75mcgT4/18mcgT3. For several reasons, HGH needs T4 around to be optimally effective. T4 deiodination to T3 occurs in all tissues as needed. But T3 will not go to T4. If you are healthy and on HGH, you will convert all the T3 you need. However, if you take Cytomel, you will suppress your endogenous T4 production - and your HGH therapy will be sub-optimally effective. There is no sense in wasting expensive HGH, right?

Start your T4 empericaly at 100-150 mcg per day. Take on an empty stomach before breakfast. Do not eat for 1 hour after taking T4. You do not taper T4 or T3. Your starting dose is just an educated guess based on your training load and body weight. You must check TSH, T4, and T3 labs 4-6 weeks after you start and adjust accordingly.


HGH feeds back onto the hypothalamus and causes the release of somatostatin. Somatostatin inhibits several pituitary peptides including gh of course, but also TSH. So thyroid support is necessary when on hgh therapy, especially when on higher doses. Hypothyroidism is the primary cause of the lethargy one gets while on hgh treatment.

In order for your liver and peripheral somatic organs (muscle, mitochondria) to respond optimally to HGH therapy, hypothyroidism should be treated. Now I'm not suggesting that supra-physiological thyroid levels are better, however, your not getting all the benefit from your HGH if you are hypothyroid.

he is correct i have hashimoto's disease whenever i am on GH my doctors have to increase my dose of synthroid when i come off they have to decrease the amount because i will be hyper. they always have this strange look on their faces like WTF is going on here. lol

Huh...thanks for sharing guys, very informative. :lightbulb:

 

[Ataraxia]

Bro, T3 is a very potent stimulus for IGF1. If you are hypo-thyroid, even slightly, your IGF1 response from HGH will be severely blunted. Anyone who is on HGH therapy should really be on thyroid support for several reasons. Why do you feel the need to stop your T3?

Here's what you need to know:

Don't run T3 with HGH. You want Synthroid 100-200mcg/d (T4). Or, you can use Armor thyroid which is 75mcgT4/18mcgT3. For several reasons, HGH needs T4 around to be optimally effective. T4 deiodination to T3 occurs in all tissues as needed. But T3 will not go to T4. If you are healthy and on HGH, you will convert all the T3 you need. However, if you take Cytomel, you will suppress your endogenous T4 production - and your HGH therapy will be sub-optimally effective. There is no sense in wasting expensive HGH, right?

Start your T4 empericaly at 100-150 mcg per day. Take on an empty stomach before breakfast. Do not eat for 1 hour after taking T4. You do not taper T4 or T3. Your starting dose is just an educated guess based on your training load and body weight. You must check TSH, T4, and T3 labs 4-6 weeks after you start and adjust accordingly.


HGH feeds back onto the hypothalamus and causes the release of somatostatin. Somatostatin inhibits several pituitary peptides including gh of course, but also TSH. So thyroid support is necessary when on hgh therapy, especially when on higher doses. Hypothyroidism is the primary cause of the lethargy one gets while on hgh treatment.

In order for your liver and peripheral somatic organs (muscle, mitochondria) to respond optimally to HGH therapy, hypothyroidism should be treated. Now I'm not suggesting that supra-physiological thyroid levels are better, however, your not getting all the benefit from your HGH if you are hypothyroid.

Awesome info!! can anyone else confirm he is correct here?! thanks!

 

[Ataraxia]

Also if you are correct how do you suggest i adjust my dose over the next 30 days? I'm on 100mcs daily and i was going to come off because i didn't want my own production to get lazy... i believe that it will not shut down permanently but i do believe if it doesn't work for a long time 6-12 month maybe it will be a little lazy... make sense? idk

 

[lilhawk1]

Awesome info!! can anyone else confirm he is correct here?! thanks!

He is correct.

 

[concreter]

I ran gh for a year stait at 4-6 ius and thyroid came in normal.
I do like t-4 better for an extra fat burn towards summer over being amped on t-3.

 

[yzfrr11]

Also if you are correct how do you suggest i adjust my dose over the next 30 days? I'm on 100mcs daily and i was going to come off because i didn't want my own production to get lazy... i believe that it will not shut down permanently but i do believe if it doesn't work for a long time 6-12 month maybe it will be a little lazy... make sense? idk

I'm an endo.

Are you on 100mcs of T4 or T3?

Start your T4 empericaly at 100-150 mcg per day. Take on an empty stomach before breakfast. Do not eat for 1 hour after taking T4. You do not taper T4 or T3. Your starting dose is just an educated guess based on your training load and body weight. You must check TSH, T4, and T3 labs 4-6 weeks after you start and adjust accordingly.

Taking T4 and/or T3 will suppress TSH while on, but even after several straight years of use, you will not permanently shut it down.

 

[alpha6164]

Bro, T3 is a very potent stimulus for IGF1. If you are hypo-thyroid, even slightly, your IGF1 response from HGH will be severely blunted. Anyone who is on HGH therapy should really be on thyroid support for several reasons. Why do you feel the need to stop your T3?

Here's what you need to know:

Don't run T3 with HGH. You want Synthroid 100-200mcg/d (T4). Or, you can use Armor thyroid which is 75mcgT4/18mcgT3. For several reasons, HGH needs T4 around to be optimally effective. T4 deiodination to T3 occurs in all tissues as needed. But T3 will not go to T4. If you are healthy and on HGH, you will convert all the T3 you need. However, if you take Cytomel, you will suppress your endogenous T4 production - and your HGH therapy will be sub-optimally effective. There is no sense in wasting expensive HGH, right?

I agree with a lot of things you say in your post except the above. T4 is an inactive hormone. Basically T4 is a prohormone and within tissue loses an iodine and becomes T3. T3 is the active compound. You absolutely right that T3 does not covert to T4 and it has no reason to. Think of it. No cell in the body can use T4. T4 is made simply as a prohormone and then gets cleaved to T3. I would like to see any publication that specifically states that "HGH needs T4 to work." Yes, if you are hypothyroid then you definitely will not be making as much IGF1 as you should from the HGH but it is not T4 dependent.

 

[Ataraxia]

I agree with a lot of things you say in your post except the above. T4 is an inactive hormone. Basically T4 is a prohormone and within tissue loses an iodine and becomes T3. T3 is the active compound. You absolutely right that T3 does not covert to T4 and it has no reason to. Think of it. No cell in the body can use T4. T4 is made simply as a prohormone and then gets cleaved to T3. I would like to see any publication that specifically states that "HGH needs T4 to work." Yes, if you are hypothyroid then you definitely will not be making as much IGF1 as you should from the HGH but it is not T4 dependent.

Alpha what do you suggest? I have been on 100mcs t3 for the past 4-5 months... I feel like i should let me natural thyroid do a little exercise so it doesn't get too lazy... i don't know what to do?!

 

[alpha6164]

Alpha what do you suggest? I have been on 100mcs t3 for the past 4-5 months... I feel like i should let me natural thyroid do a little exercise so it doesn't get too lazy... i don't know what to do?!

You are probably right, but this is not the time to do it if you want consistent test of your IGF1.

 

[yzfrr11]

I agree with a lot of things you say in your post except the above. T4 is an inactive hormone. Basically T4 is a prohormone and within tissue loses an iodine and becomes T3. T3 is the active compound. You absolutely right that T3 does not covert to T4 and it has no reason to. Think of it. No cell in the body can use T4. T4 is made simply as a prohormone and then gets cleaved to T3. I would like to see any publication that specifically states that "HGH needs T4 to work." Yes, if you are hypothyroid then you definitely will not be making as much IGF1 as you should from the HGH but it is not T4 dependent.

Here ya go bro. I've been following my IGF1 for years. I definitely notice a better IGF1 response when I have T4 on board as opposed to T3.


Comp Biochem Physiol A Mol Integr Physiol. 2008 Dec;151(4):705-10. Epub 2008 Aug 27.
Direct actions of cortisol, thyroxine and growth hormone on IGF-I mRNA expression in sea bream hepatocytes.
Leung LY, Kwong AK, Man AK, Woo NY.
Source

Department of Biology, The Chinese University of Hong Kong, Shatin, N. T., Hong Kong SAR, China.
Abstract

The present study aims to investigate potential regulatory effect of different growth-related hormones including growth hormone (GH), human insulin-like growth factor-I (hIGF-I), thyroxine (T(4)), triiodothyronine (T(3)) and cortisol, on insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) mRNA expression of hepatocytes isolated from silver sea bream. By using real-time PCR, IGF-I mRNA expression profiles of hepatocytes in response to individual hormones were determined in vitro. Hepatocytes incubated with GH at concentrations of 10-1000 ng/mL showed significantly higher IGF-I expression, but the elevation was attenuated at high concentration of GH (1000 ng/mL). IGF-I expression remained unchanged in hepatocytes after incubation with hIGF-I. Hepatocytes incubated with T(4) at concentration of 1000 ng/mL exhibited a significant elevation in IGF-I expression, whereas no difference in IGF-I expression was demonstrated in hepatocytes after incubation with T(3). Upon incubation with cortisol (1-1000 ng/mL), IGF-I expression was significantly decreased in hepatocytes in a dose-dependent manner. Our study demonstrated that GH, T(4), and cortisol had direct modulatory effects on IGF-I expression in fish hepatocytes in vitro.

PMID:
18790068
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]