PERIODIZE FOR BODYBUILDING PURPOSES?

[HONGOGRIMES]

I know we have to train heavy and thanks to read and annoy (lol) I learned this and also to look for muscle failure in each workout but I also know that going heavy and reach failure all the time is counterproductive.

But today watching my diary (I became a low volume boy max 5 sets for group and doing frequency 2 (upper lower or ppl) for 5 months and I have a lot of fun) after deloads I came back to hit a plateau in all the excersises (im also use excercise rotation) more than nothing my problem is the CNS.

As I read a lot on pm, nothing works forever and for this reason I wanted to know if somwhere here use times with a higher volume and higher ranges 8-20, for example I thought to use about 4-8 weeks of training split split 4 exercises 4 series in the range 8-20 and then return at the same time to a routine more frequency, with fewer series, fewer exercises and lower ranges. (5-12)

I ask here and I am not so sure to do this because I know that I have to improve a lot even in my lifts and maybe using such infrequent workouts is not the best.maybe it is better to just deload a few weeks like dc for example (blast and cruise times)I
I hope your opinions, thanks for all!

 

[jeroendebleser]

Personally I'm more of a fan of the occasional week off training entirely moreso than deloading or even changing programs but it all boils down to personal preference.

 

[nothuman]

Taking short breaks from resistance training resensitizes muscles for anabolism. I have gotten better about taking a week off every now and then, as hard as that is to do mentally.

 

[Lou]

As above, I prefer (and think its best for people who really grind in the gym) to take a week or so off from the gym after a period of pushing the weights up, rather than a "deload" (as in still going to the gym).

If you're worried about residual fatigue (commonly known as "CNS being fried"), the worst thing you can do is shoot your volume up. The higher the volume, the higher the accumulated fatigue, specially working in a higher rep range.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Low volume, low reps doesn’t work for my body. I’d say that probably works great for guys with a lot of fast twitch muscle fibers. I have predominantly slow twitch fibers so I do more volume, more reps.
I typically do 16-20 sets, 8-16 reps per set for chest, back, and delts. For biceps and triceps I do 12-16 sets, 12-16 reps with lots of giant sets and super sets.
For legs my knees are shot and I have permanent nerve damage to my left leg so I only do 8 sets quads, 4 sets hams, 8 sets glutes, 6 sets calves. Reps are 13-16. I train one body part per workout, and train 2 days on, 1 off.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Anecdotally, I don't think periodization is needed to make muscle gains....basically, it's not needed in bodybuilding. When it comes to performance athletes, then yes it does work and is needed.

Like someone mentioned above, a week off can work.

 

[Pericles]

Anecdotally, I don't think periodization is needed to make muscle gains....basically, it's not needed in bodybuilding. When it comes to performance athletes, then yes it does work and is needed.

Like someone mentioned above, a week off can work.

Periodization is needed for consistent progress and to reduce risk of injury. Literally all the top phd coaches, Mike Isratel, Layne Norton, Eric helms all program 3 -4 week peaking and then a deload. I can assure you this works better than auto regulation and just guessing with your training. .

 

[Black Beard]

I know we have to train heavy and thanks to read and annoy (lol) I learned this and also to look for muscle failure in each workout but I also know that going heavy and reach failure all the time is counterproductive.

But today watching my diary (I became a low volume boy max 5 sets for group and doing frequency 2 (upper lower or ppl) for 5 months and I have a lot of fun) after deloads I came back to hit a plateau in all the excersises (im also use excercise rotation) more than nothing my problem is the CNS.

As I read a lot on pm, nothing works forever and for this reason I wanted to know if somwhere here use times with a higher volume and higher ranges 8-20, for example I thought to use about 4-8 weeks of training split split 4 exercises 4 series in the range 8-20 and then return at the same time to a routine more frequency, with fewer series, fewer exercises and lower ranges. (5-12)

I ask here and I am not so sure to do this because I know that I have to improve a lot even in my lifts and maybe using such infrequent workouts is not the best.maybe it is better to just deload a few weeks like dc for example (blast and cruise times)I
I hope your opinions, thanks for all!

You want the best of both worlds. You can mix heavy and high volume training into the same day (heavy bench/light db press) or have a heavy day and a volume day in the same week. Some guys "periodize" by doing a few months purely focusing on strength training, and then alternate a few months going for volume. It all works as long as you follow the basic fundamentals (progressive overload, nutrition, recovery)


Some of the greatest physiques of all time were built with both strength based training and isolation/volume. Arnold, Franco, Dorian, and Coleman are some examples.

Personally I'm more of a fan of the occasional week off training entirely moreso than deloading or even changing programs but it all boils down to personal preference.

This always works for me. 1-2 weeks off training, i come back refreshed. Muscles, tendons/ligaments and CNS feel like new. Never did de-loading or anything and this works for me.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Periodization is needed for consistent progress and to reduce risk of injury. Literally all the top phd coaches, Mike Isratel, Layne Norton, Eric helms all program 3 -4 week peaking and then a deload. I can assure you this works better than auto regulation and just guessing with your training. .

No one is just guessing. I log book everything.
And I competed as a PLer...where you literally NEED to periodize.

But like I said, from anecdotal evidence and from most every high amateur to pro I know....none of them do blocks of different methods or rep ranges or anything. They push it hard until they feel beat up and then they deload. I do it this way too. Capping or restricting your own training to say 4-6 weeks of ______ IMO is a waste. You don't know how long or how much you can push. AND all of those factors can change as well.

Like I said, periodization works well for performance. But from a pure hypertrophy standpoint, just paying attention to how beat up you are and auto regulating is enough.

I was just listening to the Mind - Body Broadcast (podcast) where this question was asked a couple weeks ago and both basically said the same thing im saying. If you are a track athlete or say an olympic lifter, yeah makes sense. If you are trying to grow...then no, not really necessary.


And why it depends why someone might want to use periodization in the first place....for rep schemes? For intensity and to regulate injuries?....both of those are very different.
I would say the average BBer doesn't need to periodize rep ranges. And to avoid injuries...an easier way to do that is to understand your body and when to back off and deload. I guess you can call that periodization if you want.

You also just named 3 trainers who have never touched the intermediate and above BBer group. Name any advanced guy who has worked with/under/used their guidelines.

 

[Biggerp73]

Period 1: low reps

Period 2: same with as Period 1 but stonger so mid reps

Period 3: same weight again, high reps

Period 4: increase weight, low reps

Repeat

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

You want the best of both worlds. You can mix heavy and high volume training into the same day (heavy bench/light db press) or have a heavy day and a volume day in the same week. Some guys "periodize" by doing a few months purely focusing on strength training, and then alternate a few months going for volume. It all works as long as you follow the basic fundamentals (progressive overload, nutrition, recovery)


Some of the greatest physiques of all time were built with both strength based training and isolation/volume. Arnold, Franco, Dorian, and Coleman are some examples.



This always works for me. 1-2 weeks off training, i come back refreshed. Muscles, tendons/ligaments and CNS feel like new. Never did de-loading or anything and this works for me.

YES, THAT! i hear in the Fouad Abiad podcast, he do this.

 

[Dens228]

I don't use that periodization as defined as in rotating weight/reps etc on a planned basis. I found during my years competing in powerlifting that things just aren't that linear.

What I have learned is to listen to my mind and body. One bad workout isn't a big deal, a couple in a row and I know it's time to take a break. I'll either do a couple sets per bodypart at higher reps and not to failure, or I'll take a couple days off.

Today was a perfect example. I was supposed to do chest/delts/tris and during my first few warm up sets I just wasn't into it. So, I decided to just come back and hit it tomorrow and I know it'll be a great workout.

Of course you have to have good self motivation and not let this become habit and an excuse to miss workouts. But I've also learned that as you grow older you can't do the opposite and grind yourself into the ground.

So I guess I use the "Weider Instinctive Training Principle".. LOL

 

[maldorf]

I don't use that periodization as defined as in rotating weight/reps etc on a planned basis. I found during my years competing in powerlifting that things just aren't that linear.

What I have learned is to listen to my mind and body. One bad workout isn't a big deal, a couple in a row and I know it's time to take a break. I'll either do a couple sets per bodypart at higher reps and not to failure, or I'll take a couple days off.

Today was a perfect example. I was supposed to do chest/delts/tris and during my first few warm up sets I just wasn't into it. So, I decided to just come back and hit it tomorrow and I know it'll be a great workout.

Of course you have to have good self motivation and not let this become habit and an excuse to miss workouts. But I've also learned that as you grow older you can't do the opposite and grind yourself into the ground.

So I guess I use the "Weider Instinctive Training Principle".. LOL

Exactly right. A few days ago my older daughter came down with a cold and I could feel my throat getting sore and I was feeling really tired and achy. I really felt like I was fighting off getting sick. So I took off an extra 2 days rest. I went into the gym today feeling great again, and to top it off I never got full blown sick!

When I was a young kid I would have pushed myself to workout in the gym and would have gotten really sick with a cold.

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

Personally I'm more of a fan of the occasional week off training entirely moreso than deloading or even changing programs but it all boils down to personal preference.

I love to train short and heavy, but well this is too demanding to use forever and use this reasoning: if I use more exercises, new angles, techniques, exercises and leave more recovery time between muscles I would give a kind of shock to muscle (if this exists lol).

*I dont like, but probably ended up taking that week because I have a lot of exams at the university

 

[Rogue]

Periodization is CRUCIAL to muscle and strength development.
Unless you do it a la Mentzer with couple day rest , you CANNOT train balls to the wall all year, you will burn out and fade...
What we don't realize,is that most of us will periodisize without planning. How many will add reps or weight or increase decrease time between sets because it feels right?
A planned periodization can keep things interesting and gains coming. This is an efficient way to progress but its also VERY regimental and demanding.
I used to train a couple weeks heavy followed be couple weeks lighter, off course rep count would increase as I went lighter with the weights...
Then i started doing one week heavy/lower reps followed by one week lighter/higher reps.That worked for me really well for a while.
Then I split my week in two and did the heavy work beginning of the week and lighter work towards the end. For me this was very effective.
So then I kicked things up a notch and started doing a heavier workout followed by a lighter workout(Rep range tied to the workout theme). Then towards the end of the week I would repeat the workout only this time light day1 then heavy day2.
So each set of muscle trained you get a heavy day and a light one.
This really put me in good shape, I was getting stronger and harder and remained conditioned all the time.

 

[maldorf]

I used to do some power lifting routines, 5X5 stuff, about 2 or 3x per year. Each one was about 9 weeks or so if I remember right. Stuff figured out by Fred Hatfield. I would gain so much strength off of those and then transition into a bodybuilding routine. It worked well for me. I wasn't able to put on strength so fast doing bodybuilding. Putting on the extra strength translated to using heavier weights in bodybuilding.

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

I used to do some power lifting routines, 5X5 stuff, about 2 or 3x per year. Each one was about 9 weeks or so if I remember right. Stuff figured out by Fred Hatfield. I would gain so much strength off of those and then transition into a bodybuilding routine. It worked well for me. I wasn't able to put on strength so fast doing bodybuilding. Putting on the extra strength translated to using heavier weights in bodybuilding.

I found this old post of yours and that is what I was referring to with my first post, is GREAT
"I think its very beneficial to do both kinds of training. Youll want to do what they call periodization where you traing progressively heavier for a span of time working your way up and getting really heavy ,and then follow up with a period of higher volume and less resistance. Youll need to detrain for awhile in order to avoid injuries and over training. Its important to give your connective tissue a rest and heavy training can "fry" your nervous system enough that you can actually get weaker the harder you train! You have to try to train somewhat by instinct too, but that can be very hard when you are very driven to succeed. Some planning is involved I think and then you can alter that plan some as you go along if need be."

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

Periodization is CRUCIAL to muscle and strength development.
Unless you do it a la Mentzer with couple day rest , you CANNOT train balls to the wall all year, you will burn out and fade...
What we don't realize,is that most of us will periodisize without planning. How many will add reps or weight or increase decrease time between sets because it feels right?
A planned periodization can keep things interesting and gains coming. This is an efficient way to progress but its also VERY regimental and demanding.
I used to train a couple weeks heavy followed be couple weeks lighter, off course rep count would increase as I went lighter with the weights...
Then i started doing one week heavy/lower reps followed by one week lighter/higher reps.That worked for me really well for a while.
Then I split my week in two and did the heavy work beginning of the week and lighter work towards the end. For me this was very effective.
So then I kicked things up a notch and started doing a heavier workout followed by a lighter workout(Rep range tied to the workout theme). Then towards the end of the week I would repeat the workout only this time light day1 then heavy day2.
So each set of muscle trained you get a heavy day and a light one.
This really put me in good shape, I was getting stronger and harder and remained conditioned all the time.

interesting post rogue, can you say how is your division when you do a heavy day and a light day? it reminds me of Mountain dog training with the difference that John only does it with the part he wants to emphasize

 

[jayk]

I used to do some power lifting routines, 5X5 stuff, about 2 or 3x per year. Each one was about 9 weeks or so if I remember right. Stuff figured out by Fred Hatfield. I would gain so much strength off of those and then transition into a bodybuilding routine. It worked well for me. I wasn't able to put on strength so fast doing bodybuilding. Putting on the extra strength translated to using heavier weights in bodybuilding.

This is the same exact thing I do a couple times a year and the strength gets crazy if on gear it also brings a certain dense grainy look as well and like maldorf
Said it works well cuz all you lifts get stronger I gained most of my size training this way

 

[maldorf]

This is the same exact thing I do a couple times a year and the strength gets crazy if on gear it also brings a certain dense grainy look as well and like maldorf
Said it works well cuz all you lifts get stronger I gained most of my size training this way

I know it! The strength I would put on was unreal. Every week I would get much stronger and like you say it made my muscle look really dense. You can tell the difference because the muscle looks really hard, unlike when some guys look like someone took a air pump and blew them up.