CHINA laws MEGATHREAD

[K1]

Thank god for competition so some sources cant take advantage of people.

Being someone that has played the game and been hit, I've always found comments like this weak, pathetic and disrespectful! If I were any source reading a comment from you I would ban your ass from using me!

These guys risk a hell of a lot so the rest of you can stick to be tough guys, jabbing yourselves with shit, never having to risk anything...You talk about being taken advantage of or integrity, if guys raise their prices. Question, what the fuck access to anything would most of you have if these sources closed doors...None! You'd be hiding under your bed, every time you had to place an order for yourself waiting for Customs to send you a letter

Most of these sources I speak with regularly, I've told them ALL that they should be upp'ing their prices for years now...Most of you don't even deserve to be provided the service! Every time one of these guys have fallen, you just move onto the next wagging sack...None of you chipping in to pay their lawyer fees or bills or anything else. Like I said...Pathetic!

 

[NovaPharma]

Being someone that has played the game and been hit, I've always found comments like this weak, pathetic and disrespectful! If I were any source reading a comment from you I would ban your ass from using me!

These guys risk a hell of a lot so the rest of you can stick to be tough guys, jabbing yourselves with shit, never having to risk anything...You talk about being taken advantage of or integrity, if guys raise their prices. Question, what the fuck access to anything would most of you have if these sources closed doors...None! You'd be hiding under your bed, every time you had to place an order for yourself waiting for Customs to send you a letter

Most of these sources I speak with regularly, I've told them ALL that they should be upp'ing their prices for years now...Most of you don't even deserve to be provided the service! Every time one of these guys have fallen, you just move onto the next wagging sack...None of you chipping in to pay their lawyer fees or bills or anything else. Like I said...Pathetic!

When it all comes down it comes down everyone around you thought was you’d be find yourself To be very alone and everyone you helped.

At the moment my prices are low, but once self establish will be raised.
I’m not here to risk my ass for pennies, and K1 you know theres many people you watch out for, guys who need help, guys who are not financially able to do things And as a person of having a little money here and there you always wanna help other people.

 

[LATS]

Those manufactured that arent licensed will be licensed very quickly.. shell out a bit of money and you will have a licensed plant.. china makes too much money to not find a loophole to keep the flow going..

 

[Deleted member 121863]

TRue, some will have integrity or be happy with profit and just keep business as usual. Thats why I tell people if your supplier is panicking, then he probably wasn't a good supplier anyway, he is only in it short term. Also, by having guys spread panic on the forums "hey guys my supplier told me about this new law!!!! omg!!" then demand goes up, because people will want to stock up for a year, and then price goes up too in the short term. I guess the moral of the story is, suppliers are not our friends, dealing with them is a necessary evil to look good.

Do you even buy raws? I`ll tell you it won`t be from us! You have no idea what you are talking about. All of your posts on this topic have been so out of touch. If you are not in the know, just browse. Otherwise YOU are the one spreading panic, fear, and misinformation sprinkled with blanket disrespect.

 

[qbkilla]

Ill just say I apologize if the way I worded something caused anyone to be upset, and ignore the personal stuff so the thread is not derailed. Ill make some points you can say if you agree or disagree, is that fair?

1. If a source can raise his prices, he/she should. But, supply and demand dictate everything like malodor said. Raising prices could increase or decrease profit, depending on how the customer reacts.

2. Its probably wise to not send anymore than your willing to lose as a customer, take that for what its worth.

3. Customers expecting an upcoming rise in prices or shortage of gear (weather real or imaginary) is good four sources and it drives up demand. Competition for customers (more sources) is good for the customer and not good for the sources (increase in supply lowers prices).

4. Schools should really teach basic economics BETTER because this whole situation, and things I see in every day life, and read about on sites that have nothing to do with AAS, show that in general people (not just the USA, not just bodybuilders) really do not understand economics, credit, what a loan is, what a market is, what in interest rate is....etc....and this causes a number of problems.

 

[Crazy_jay]

Being someone that has played the game and been hit, I've always found comments like this weak, pathetic and disrespectful! If I were any source reading a comment from you I would ban your ass from using me!

These guys risk a hell of a lot so the rest of you can stick to be tough guys, jabbing yourselves with shit, never having to risk anything...You talk about being taken advantage of or integrity, if guys raise their prices. Question, what the fuck access to anything would most of you have if these sources closed doors...None! You'd be hiding under your bed, every time you had to place an order for yourself waiting for Customs to send you a letter

Most of these sources I speak with regularly, I've told them ALL that they should be upp'ing their prices for years now...Most of you don't even deserve to be provided the service! Every time one of these guys have fallen, you just move onto the next wagging sack...None of you chipping in to pay their lawyer fees or bills or anything else. Like I said...Pathetic!

That seems a little harsh. Not saying I disagree with all of it, there is definitely a lot of risk and I am grateful for the guys that take that risk and allow me the opportunity to use steroids but it's not like majority of these sources are taking that risk to help a brother out. They are doing it because there is some damn good money in it. I'm a cheap ass so I like a good deal and I've tried a few different sources but for the most part, I dont shop around on my source because i appreciate what he does for me. If prices go up, that sucks but it is what it is and I'll still be his customer.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

Ill just say I apologize if the way I worded something caused anyone to be upset, and ignore the personal stuff so the thread is not derailed. Ill make some points you can say if you agree or disagree, is that fair?

1. If a source can raise his prices, he/she should. But, supply and demand dictate everything like maldorf said. Raising prices could increase or decrease profit, depending on how the customer reacts.
Many sources have already left the business, supply has already been lowered! Raising prices can also reflect increased cost on the producer side due to new laws.

2. Its probably wise to not send anymore than your willing to lose as a customer, take that for what its worth.

3. Customers expecting an upcoming rise in prices or shortage of gear (weather real or imaginary) is good four sources and it drives up demand. Competition for customers (more sources) is good for the customer and not good for the sources (increase in supply lowers prices).
This is not your average supply/demand model. Selling legal widgets does not have a cost of risk added. You will also get the BS tax for your posts here j/k

4. Schools should really teach basic economics BETTER because this whole situation, and things I see in every day life, and read about on sites that have nothing to do with AAS, show that in general people (not just the USA, not just bodybuilders) really do not understand economics, credit, what a loan is, what a market is, what in interest rate is....etc....and this causes a number of problems.
Agreed many people live head in the sand. The back end of this business is not taught in school and mistakes can be much more than just monetary. That is what makes this different from standard economics.

Apologies accepted.

 

[juggy38]

Hogan86 is a good dude, I’d let him watch my dogs. So this shit about suppliers only caring for money isn’t true all the time.

I’m sure there are greedy people who do not care, but blanket statements are not
Usually correct

 

[johnjuanb1]

That could only be done if all the suppliers lie. I don't see that happening.

I agree 100%. There are too many sponsors here for one or two to Jack prices up, and still get customers. Now, if all sponsors raise prices then it’s safe to assume there’s a shortage in the raws market.

 

[nidnoy]

Let’s not turn into other boards where sponsors are treated as if customers are doing them a favor by purchasing their goods and every person is an insider in the know. And let’s be realistic, if prices go up 50% or so about the only things that get priced out of the average joes arsenal is primo and gh, two of my favorites, but I won’t die without them.

I doubt anyone on either side of the business line, supplier or consumer, is overly excited by this.

 

[qbkilla]

Good reply and you have a point about the risk part affecting supply and demand, I'm not sure exactly how that affects price. It was like 2004 when I took microeconomics. Kinda off topic but it was a great course, I would recommend anyone who has a high school/college age kid, make them take an economics elective. Hopefully the end result of all this will be good for the suppliers and consumers, so we can all keep doing business as usual.

It was about 2007 or so I switched to using exclusively UG oils and tabs, due to the amount of fakes out there for human grade gear. So china and UG labs hav been a godsend to most bodybuilders. Such a shame that there are people out there (no idea what part of the world it even comes from, ive heard china, Eastern Europe) who are faking the human grade gear. I remember back in about 2003, 2004 using ICN, Nile Sustanon, Iranian Test E, now im a customer of China lol.

 

[K1]

That seems a little harsh. Not saying I disagree with all of it, there is definitely a lot of risk and I am grateful for the guys that take that risk and allow me the opportunity to use steroids but it's not like majority of these sources are taking that risk to help a brother out. They are doing it because there is some damn good money in it. I'm a cheap ass so I like a good deal and I've tried a few different sources but for the most part, I dont shop around on my source because i appreciate what he does for me. If prices go up, that sucks but it is what it is and I'll still be his customer.

Nothing harsh about it...If you ever stand in front of a Federal indictment, you're entire outlook will change real fast!

Not once did I say that a source is doing this to be your friend (very few you can consider a friend and I'm not going to mention names or point out facts, but there are a few that have openly come in over the years to help people out in this industry)...They are doing it for the money BUT in this day and age, with the profit margin (because most of these guys are getting their raws at the prices most of you guys could get them for, maybe a little cheaper once they've thrown in a few orders or bought a little more bulk) are making fuck all for profit in comparison to what I've seen from suppliers that are supplying them! These homebrewers probably don't even factor in their supply costs when setting up their businesses in the first place (not including every other area that they pay to get set up for safety shit). Most of them want you to think they're bigger then they are, when they're making peanuts and hoping to be pumping out a few hundred vials.

Now if you want to flip that coin...And I've said this countless times over the years because since the time I was in, the homebrewer has expanded leaps and bounds. But how you guys see things about competition this and competition that, is why we have countless know-nothing sources that provide shit product, burn the members constantly, switch names constantly and why the Mods are always the first to be blamed when some bum rips off members. Everyone is so quick to jump on that guy offering the $25 deal, pulling business from the trusted guys because you "hope" or want to "force" that trusted guy to lower his prices, that you've created a market of untrusted, unchecked suppliers. Shit an example of this are the countless China sources that sprouted up on the boards...Fuck, most of them are just bullshit remailers who aren't even from China!

 

[NovaPharma]

Nothing harsh about it...If you ever stand in front of a Federal indictment, you're entire outlook will change real fast!

Not once did I say that a source is doing this to be your friend (very few you can consider a friend and I'm not going to mention names or point out facts, but there are a few that have openly come in over the years to help people out in this industry)...They are doing it for the money BUT in this day and age, with the profit margin (because most of these guys are getting their raws at the prices most of you guys could get them for, maybe a little cheaper once they've thrown in a few orders or bought a little more bulk) are making fuck all for profit in comparison to what I've seen from suppliers that are supplying them! These homebrewers probably don't even factor in their supply costs when setting up their businesses in the first place (not including every other area that they pay to get set up for safety shit). Most of them want you to think they're bigger then they are, when they're making peanuts and hoping to be pumping out a few hundred vials.

Now if you want to flip that coin...And I've said this countless times over the years because since the time I was in, the homebrewer has expanded leaps and bounds. But how you guys see things about competition this and competition that, is why we have countless know-nothing sources that provide shit product, burn the members constantly, switch names constantly and why the Mods are always the first to be blamed when some bum rips off members. Everyone is so quick to jump on that guy offering the $25 deal, pulling business from the trusted guys because you "hope" or want to "force" that trusted guy to lower his prices, that you've created a market of untrusted, unchecked suppliers. Shit an example of this are the countless China sources that sprouted up on the boards...Fuck, most of them are just bullshit remailers who aren't even from China!

Yes when i came back i saw so many advertisers from “china”

I was hesitant to get back due to so many competition, i even seen 7$ vials and shit.

Not here looking to pump 500 vials to make a few hundred bucks profit at 7$ vials that would be insane.

I just got here last month, I have given out over at least 80-120 vials as freebies, logs, guys who need some boost/help.

I’ve only recouped ad fees. & Yet alone the big $ involved to make sure you have a good stock and send out quickly.

 

[K1]

I deleted the clutter...None of it was needed and served no purpose in the thread.

 

[qbkilla]

Nothing harsh about it...If you ever stand in front of a Federal indictment, you're entire outlook will change real fast!

Not once did I say that a source is doing this to be your friend (very few you can consider a friend and I'm not going to mention names or point out facts, but there are a few that have openly come in over the years to help people out in this industry)...They are doing it for the money BUT in this day and age, with the profit margin (because most of these guys are getting their raws at the prices most of you guys could get them for, maybe a little cheaper once they've thrown in a few orders or bought a little more bulk) are making fuck all for profit in comparison to what I've seen from suppliers that are supplying them! These homebrewers probably don't even factor in their supply costs when setting up their businesses in the first place (not including every other area that they pay to get set up for safety shit). Most of them want you to think they're bigger then they are, when they're making peanuts and hoping to be pumping out a few hundred vials.

Now if you want to flip that coin...And I've said this countless times over the years because since the time I was in, the homebrewer has expanded leaps and bounds. But how you guys see things about competition this and competition that, is why we have countless know-nothing sources that provide shit product, burn the members constantly, switch names constantly and why the Mods are always the first to be blamed when some bum rips off members. Everyone is so quick to jump on that guy offering the $25 deal, pulling business from the trusted guys because you "hope" or want to "force" that trusted guy to lower his prices, that you've created a market of untrusted, unchecked suppliers. Shit an example of this are the countless China sources that sprouted up on the boards...Fuck, most of them are just bullshit remailers who aren't even from China!

This I pretty much agree with. The quality sources who have been at this for years and have a well earned reputation SHOULd be able to charge higher prices, and their reputation and service is worth its weight in gold. My earlier posts where I was being critical of "sources" was more directed at the same guys you are not a fan of, the fly by night guys who are just in this for the short term. I should have specified in my earlier posts about I was not referring to trusted long term "golden" sources, but more so the fly by night guys who come back every few months under a different name.

 

[K1]

This I pretty much agree with. The quality sources who have been at this for years and have a well earned reputation SHOULd be able to charge higher prices, and their reputation and service is worth its weight in gold. My earlier posts where I was being critical of "sources" was more directed at the same guys you are not a fan of, the fly by night guys who are just in this for the short term. I should have specified in my earlier posts about I was not referring to trusted long term "golden" sources, but more so the fly by night guys who come back every few months under a different name.

It sucks that there can't be tiers in this business...But then again, the new guys would offer fuck all for pricing which they already do, pulling the profit from the trusted guys...The trusted guys don't make the profit to keep things running smoothly and have to drop their prices to compete.

Remember when the homebrewers started popping up...They cut the prices in the market right in half almost overnight. NONE of those guys are still in business but the trusted sources had to follow suit and in good business those same guys didn't want to go back up on their prices, so it remained the same. Then many of those same bum sources have come back time and time again under different names, continuing to cut the prices out from under the trusted guys, only to run out or product, burn members or get themselves busted for handling business stupidly.

Look at the testing...You have guys bitching when results come back underdosed. You ask them what they paid for the vial and they're like $25-$30 bucks...WTF did you expect?! You let these guys come in an control the market so that you could get more vials for your dollar...Now all your vials add up to what you would have paid to that trusted source for 1-2 vials with money to spare lol!

You aren't the only one I've seen make the comment I originally quoted over the years...But it has become such the norm that people don't realize anymore that yes the cost was higher years back, but the quality was consistently better and those trusted guys were able to handle business more efficiently. Now everyone has to pump out more product quicker for less profit to be able to give out more free shit and keep up with the handful of new guys that pop up with a pretty label each week. So it becomes a lower profit margin, lesser quality and more risk to little reward.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Every time one of these guys have fallen, you just move onto the next wagging sack...None of you chipping in to pay their lawyer fees or bills or anything else. Like I said...Pathetic!

I want to meet the guy that chips in to pay his source's lawyer fees. That guy is Ghandi....on steroids!

 

[Maverick]

It sucks that there can't be tiers in this business...But then again, the new guys would offer fuck all for pricing which they already do, pulling the profit from the trusted guys...The trusted guys don't make the profit to keep things running smoothly and have to drop their prices to compete.

Remember when the homebrewers started popping up...They cut the prices in the market right in half almost overnight. NONE of those guys are still in business but the trusted sources had to follow suit and in good business those same guys didn't want to go back up on their prices, so it remained the same. Then many of those same bum sources have come back time and time again under different names, continuing to cut the prices out from under the trusted guys, only to run out or product, burn members or get themselves busted for handling business stupidly.

Look at the testing...You have guys bitching when results come back underdosed. You ask them what they paid for the vial and they're like $25-$30 bucks...WTF did you expect?! You let these guys come in an control the market so that you could get more vials for your dollar...Now all your vials add up to what you would have paid to that trusted source for 1-2 vials with money to spare lol!

You aren't the only one I've seen make the comment I originally quoted over the years...But it has become such the norm that people don't realize anymore that yes the cost was higher years back, but the quality was consistently better and those trusted guys were able to handle business more efficiently. Now everyone has to pump out more product quicker for less profit to be able to give out more free shit and keep up with the handful of new guys that pop up with a pretty label each week. So it becomes a lower profit margin, lesser quality and more risk to little reward.

as much as these new sources are to blame for undercutting older verteran sources such as a certain chinese source on this board with their 10.00 for tren ace and 5.00 a vial for test enanthate 300 you have to put some blame as well on the forum owners....

i realize that forums owners are here to make money selling banners and ad space but if they didnt let all these newbies advertise on thier forums with these crazy low prices and no history then veteran sources having to lower prices wouldnt be as big of an issue either....

pro muscle is a great forum... ive been here for almost 17 years.... but the number of sponsors on this forum alone has exploded.... other forums are the same... this place is as big a source board as the old meso-rx was back int he day when it was the wild west...

everybody cant be a source... yet everybody seems to be trying to be....

people say the pie is big enough for everybody to get a piece.... is it really...? doesnt seem so any longer... the big pond seems pretty clogged up...

 

[get it in ya]

K1 knows more than any of us, I agree with every word.

 

[NovaPharma]

as much as these new sources are to blame for undercutting older verteran sources such as a certain chinese source on this board with their 10.00 for tren ace and 5.00 a vial for test enanthate 300 you have to put some blame as well on the forum owners....

i realize that forums owners are here to make money selling banners and ad space but if they didnt let all these newbies advertise on thier forums with these crazy low prices and no history then veteran sources having to lower prices wouldnt be as big of an issue either....

pro muscle is a great forum... ive been here for almost 17 years.... but the number of sponsors on this forum alone has exploded.... other forums are the same... this place is as big a source board as the old meso-rx was back int he day when it was the wild west...

everybody cant be a source... yet everybody seems to be trying to be....

people say the pie is big enough for everybody to get a piece.... is it really...? doesnt seem so any longer... the big pond seems pretty clogged up...

Agreed 100%, was not like this when i was around years ago.

Atleast to eliminate the cheap Chinese ones. It’s killing resale.

And I also notice some banners are not filled up to 2-3 Rows, Would be nice if they’re cleared up less clutter.

I don’t wanna get burned on a cross here but I quess that’s my opinion, Reorganizing forums with rules and specifically only sponsors section with non-sponsor clutter stuff out.

Would be nice.