Turn me off to tren

[KillerStack]

.

Also, methy-test is the traditional "aggression" drug used in powerlifting and strongman comps. Methel-tren maybe also. I really don't think halo has been used for that very much.

From what I've seen Halo has been promoted as the prime aggression boosting steroid of them all for decades. Lots of forum posters here and elsewhere have claimed Halo causes uncontrollable anger issues unlike anything else. Seen lots of powerlifters say they use Halo for aggression, "popping them like tic tacs before meets."

Now I've been playing with Halo recently and I haven't really noticed extreme rage. Been having good workouts though.
I just saw where Alex Kikel said he adviced 10 days of Halo with Alpha-GPC before powerlifting meets for enhanced motor learning and drive. I'm getting some Alpha-GPC tomorrow which I will stack with some Noopept and Halo to see if I get any stronger lol.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

From what I've seen Halo has been promoted as the prime aggression boosting steroid of them all for decades. Lots of forum posters here and elsewhere have claimed Halo causes uncontrollable anger issues unlike anything else. Seen lots of powerlifters say they use Halo for aggression, "popping them like tic tacs before meets."

Now I've been playing with Halo recently and I haven't really noticed extreme rage. Been having good workouts though.
I just saw where Alex Kikel said he adviced 10 days of Halo with Alpha-GPC before powerlifting meets for enhanced motor learning and drive. I'm getting some Alpha-GPC tomorrow which I will stack with some Noopept and Halo to see if I get any stronger lol.

Siiiiiick

 

[maldorf]

From what I've seen Halo has been promoted as the prime aggression boosting steroid of them all for decades. Lots of forum posters here and elsewhere have claimed Halo causes uncontrollable anger issues unlike anything else. Seen lots of powerlifters say they use Halo for aggression, "popping them like tic tacs before meets."

Now I've been playing with Halo recently and I haven't really noticed extreme rage. Been having good workouts though.
I just saw where Alex Kikel said he adviced 10 days of Halo with Alpha-GPC before powerlifting meets for enhanced motor learning and drive. I'm getting some Alpha-GPC tomorrow which I will stack with some Noopept and Halo to see if I get any stronger lol.

My personal experience with halo was like what you describe. Higher mind muscle connection in the gym and drive was better. I didn't experience any aggression really. I did experience some behavior changes on tren however. For me it seemed to shorten my patience. It was easier than normal to trigger my anger. Halo didn't do anything like that to me.

Halo did wreck my liver enzymes though, badly.

 

[Type-IIx]

Could it be a possibility that tren is competing at the receptor with other compounds since people usually stack with at least test. Knocking off other compounds and being circulated towards other tissues/receptors other than the muscle?

Is the question whether tren binds the AR? Tren binds it tightly, with DHT-like affinity (>3x that of test). If the question is whether tren binds the GR... not meaningfully, tren only has a miniscule binding affinity for the GR (<1% RBA) and reduces the binding capacity of skeletal muscle for cortisol by reducing GR mRNA expression: "TBA had little affinity for the glucocorticoid receptor (RBA < 1 % , Fig. 2); thus the reduction in [binding capacity] was taken to indicate a reduction in actual receptor number rather than TBA reducing the availability of binding sites by competing with the [glucocorticoid] ligand for the receptor."

Sharpe, P. M., Buttery, P. J., & Haynes, N. B. (1986). The effect of manipulating growth in sheep by diet or anabolic agents on plasma cortisol and muscle glucocorticoid receptors. British Journal of Nutrition, 56(01), 289. doi:10.1079/bjn19860108

 

[OuchThatHurts]

@OuchThatHurts tren is an anabolic/anticatabolic weapon. To deter you, what makes it perhaps uniquely bad versus other AAS would be its particularly deleterious:
- cardiac effects (impaired corticosteroid metabolism and activation of minerolocorticoid receptor (MR) has been associated with cardiovascular disease)
- aggression
- risk of psychosis
- I've never read the amyloid plaque paper, is that specifically on tren? But there's reason to believe anything with a strong AR affinity in high active concentrations (i.e., more than DHT) negatively affects cognitive function, spatial learning and memory

- cardiac effects: Yes. Cardiac and cardiovascular, cardiorespiratory, cardiopulmonary degradation of any kind is my primary concern at this point in my life so this is THE biggest inhibitory component in my planning for this winter.
- agression: I've never been very aggressive or psychotic regardless of what I was doing or going through (or taking). I have experienced aggression but I think every male will at some point and the ability to cope with and prevent these knee-jerk aggressive responses is VERY individual. Of any potential sides, this one concerns me the least. The more increased drive (and tren does make me driven) the better I feel. Even more so inside those long January and February months.
- amyloid plaque: I have not seen anything regarding amyloid plaque in brain tissue related to trenbolone but for the 6-8 weeks we're talking about, I can't imagine any appreciable additional amount of plaque buildup (vs that which would normally occur).

Much of this would appear to be far more applicable to long-term usage than my planned short-term usage (which can be d/c'ed if necessary). If I decide to swap it out, it will be because of cardiac health and blood pressure reasons.

 

[Type-IIx]

- cardiac effects: Yes. Cardiac and cardiovascular, cardiorespiratory, cardiopulmonary degradation of any kind is my primary concern at this point in my life so this is THE biggest inhibitory component in my planning for this winter.
- agression: I've never been very aggressive or psychotic regardless of what I was doing or going through (or taking). I have experienced aggression but I think every male will at some point and the ability to cope with and prevent these knee-jerk aggressive responses is VERY individual. Of any potential sides, this one concerns me the least. The more increased drive (and tren does make me driven) the better I feel. Even more so inside those long January and February months.
- amyloid plaque: I have not seen anything regarding amyloid plaque in brain tissue related to trenbolone but for the 6-8 weeks we're talking about, I can't imagine any appreciable additional amount of plaque buildup (vs that which would normally occur).

Much of this would appear to be far more applicable to long-term usage than my planned short-term usage (which can be d/c'ed if necessary). If I decide to swap it out, it will be because of cardiac health and blood pressure reasons.

Tren+Test like luki mentioned will slab on muscle and isn't obviously any more harmful than the high-dose stacks that guys run for short-term cycles. There are a few "bread and butter" cycles that just make sense and test+tren seems like the cornerstone of a growth/recomp cycle, both "on paper" and in practice.

With regard to your primary concern on cardiac effects, I think it's common (I know I notice it) to feel your heart pounding while on tren more than other gear. So just be aware of the cardiac risks, which are somewhat peculiar to tren. The cardiac remodeling/conduction changes from AAS are reversible according to the HAARLEM trial findings (that I haven't read in full yet), but we've seen a lot of guys dropping dead lately (perhaps attracting LE attention), so who knows how much damage we're really doing over the very long term you know?

 

[juggy38]

@b-boy agreed, I’m just saying relative to some that think 350mg tren ace is the START dose and 100mg daily is the “cutting dose”

I might try 50mg tren E 3x a week and
See how that goes.

 

[maldorf]

Tren+Test like luki mentioned will slab on muscle and isn't obviously any more harmful than the high-dose stacks that guys run for short-term cycles. There are a few "bread and butter" cycles that just make sense and test+tren seems like the cornerstone of a growth/recomp cycle, both "on paper" and in practice.

With regard to your primary concern on cardiac effects, I think it's common (I know I notice it) to feel your heart pounding while on tren more than other gear. So just be aware of the cardiac risks, which are somewhat peculiar to tren. The cardiac remodeling/conduction changes from AAS are reversible according to the HAARLEM trial findings (that I haven't read in full yet), but we've seen a lot of guys dropping dead lately (perhaps attracting LE attention), so who knows how much damage we're really doing over the very long term you know?

I know that I developed cardiomyopathy with an ejection fraction of 35%. Got off tren and all steroids for almost 12 months and my EF recovered to 55%. So for me it seemed to mostly reverse. My echo came back perfectly normal and the cardiologist told me that he no longer needed to see me. Then I got back on steroids, and we all know what happened to me later on.

 

[Type-IIx]

I know that I developed cardiomyopathy with an ejection fraction of 35%. Got off tren and all steroids for almost 12 months and my EF recovered to 55%. So for me it seemed to mostly reverse. My echo came back perfectly normal and the cardiologist told me that he no longer needed to see me. Then I got back on steroids, and we all know what happened to me later on.

The reverse? I think that's consistent with what I said?

 

[Bleed]

Werent you also back to squatting 315 plus for reps against the docs orders? Other way heavier lifts more often than you were advised to be doing?

I know that I developed cardiomyopathy with an ejection fraction of 35%. Got off tren and all steroids for almost 12 months and my EF recovered to 55%. So for me it seemed to mostly reverse. My echo came back perfectly normal and the cardiologist told me that he no longer needed to see me. Then I got back on steroids, and we all know what happened to me later on.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Tren+Test like luki mentioned will slab on muscle and isn't obviously any more harmful than the high-dose stacks that guys run for short-term cycles. There are a few "bread and butter" cycles that just make sense and test+tren seems like the cornerstone of a growth/recomp cycle, both "on paper" and in practice.

With regard to your primary concern on cardiac effects, I think it's common (I know I notice it) to feel your heart pounding while on tren more than other gear. So just be aware of the cardiac risks, which are somewhat peculiar to tren. The cardiac remodeling/conduction changes from AAS are reversible according to the HAARLEM trial findings (that I haven't read in full yet), but we've seen a lot of guys dropping dead lately (perhaps attracting LE attention), so who knows how much damage we're really doing over the very long term you know?

Of course. I'd never dose trenbolone without testosterone. I've seen firsthand how that goes. I start testosterone in a few weeks. I'll have been on testosterone for a couple months before I start the trenbolone. I'll tamp down my heartrate and blood pressure with a beta blocker for as much of the time as possible for as long as possible before cleaning things up for summer 2022. And thus will end my gear experience for good other than to stay on the high side of normal.

 

[maldorf]

Werent you also back to squatting 315 plus for reps against the docs orders? Other way heavier lifts more often than you were advised to be doing?

I was lifting just as heavy when I had the cardiomyopathy and recovered as I was afterwards when I had the heart attack. Lifting heavy had nothing to do with it. I pretty much maintained my weightlifting through it all, so thats one variable that never changed. That did not change until after I had my heart attack.

 

[Cv215]

I love tren. I can handle the sides except for tren cough. I have developed sooo much scar tissue from a decade of pinning that the is basically no where in my body that I can put it without getting a severe tren cough.when the cough happens it's not then just coughing. My entire body turns red, i start staying profusely. Feels like my entire body is on fire. Pins and needles all over my body. That's all on top of feeling like my lungs are about to collapse. And it happens every single shot now. Never used to be like this though.

 

[maldorf]

I love tren. I can handle the sides except for tren cough. I have developed sooo much scar tissue from a decade of pinning that the is basically no where in my body that I can put it without getting a severe tren cough.when the cough happens it's not then just coughing. My entire body turns red, i start staying profusely. Feels like my entire body is on fire. Pins and needles all over my body. That's all on top of feeling like my lungs are about to collapse. And it happens every single shot now. Never used to be like this though.

It shouldnt be like that. Something is wrong IMO. Maybe someone else on here might have an idea. I got that reaction from tren maybe 4 times total, very rare. From what I read and guess its caused by hitting an arteriole and some gets into the bloodstream. Cant really support that hypothesis though. Shouldnt happen very often anyhow.

 

[Bleed]

I do not believe tren cough is related to scar tissue at all. Ive had my runs with it and can say there are just some batches that do it and others that dont. Total volume administered seems to matter as well but thats just something I noticed. I havent dealt with the issue in any serious way in a long time but my advice would be to try another brand and see what happens.

Pins and needles and coughing are what that whole experience is about. Ive never noticed turning red but that may be individual. Sweating is a possibility. If it'd becoming a problem switch to a different vendor would be your best bet before giving up on it.

I love tren. I can handle the sides except for tren cough. I have developed sooo much scar tissue from a decade of pinning that the is basically no where in my body that I can put it without getting a severe tren cough.when the cough happens it's not then just coughing. My entire body turns red, i start staying profusely. Feels like my entire body is on fire. Pins and needles all over my body. That's all on top of feeling like my lungs are about to collapse. And it happens every single shot now. Never used to be like this though.

 

[heavyhitter]

I do not believe tren cough is related to scar tissue at all. Ive had my runs with it and can say there are just some batches that do it and others that dont. Total volume administered seems to matter as well but thats just something I noticed. I havent dealt with the issue in any serious way in a long time but my advice would be to try another brand and see what happens.

Pins and needles and coughing are what that whole experience is about. Ive never noticed turning red but that may be individual. Sweating is a possibility. If it'd becoming a problem switch to a different vendor would be your best bet before giving up on it.

Where you pin it makes a difference too. I never get tren cough with glute injects, but shoulders is semi common and triceps it happens a lot. I read once that the closer you’re injecting to the heart the more likely it is. Not sure if there’s any truth in that

 

[Bleed]

Ive gotten brutal cough from glute shots, quad shots, and ham shots. Those are the go-tos for me. Ive definitely got it from shoulders back when those were in the rotation.

Where you pin it makes a difference too. I never get tren cough with glute injects, but shoulders is semi common and triceps it happens a lot. I read once that the closer you’re injecting to the heart the more likely it is. Not sure if there’s any truth in that

 

[heavyhitter]

Ive gotten brutal cough from glute shots, quad shots, and ham shots. Those are the go-tos for me. Ive definitely got it from shoulders back when those were in the rotation.

I got it once from a rear delt shot so badly it was like exhaling fire. I could taste and smell the solvent and it pretty much froze my diaphragm for a good 15 or so seconds where I couldn’t inhale. My eyes were watering, I had some asthma afterwards….fucking sucked lol

 

[Bleed]

I think we've all been close to that point and I think that cv215 was describing this.

I often wonder if it's not just the tren but the brew itself. One of the worst "tren cough" I ever had was from test cyp. It happened one time and it was definitely test. Ever since that happened ive always wondered if the variances in the cough and whether it happened or not at all was a result of the finished product and not just the raws.

I got it once from a rear delt shot so badly it was like exhaling fire. I could taste and smell the solvent and it pretty much froze my diaphragm for a good 15 or so seconds where I couldn’t inhale. My eyes were watering, I had some asthma afterwards….fucking sucked lol

 

[heavyhitter]

I think we've all been close to that point and I think that cv215 was describing this.

I often wonder if it's not just the tren but the brew itself. One of the worst "tren cough" I ever had was from test cyp. It happened one time and it was definitely test. Ever since that happened ive always wondered if the variances in the cough and whether it happened or not at all was a result of the finished product and not just the raws.

I have had the cough from other AAS besides tren, but not as consistently. And ya I would say the way it’s prepared or solvent used likely has something to do with it