Most Professionals Have No Credibility in Training or Nutrition

[Ak47]

With the use of training and nutrition gurus and bodybuilders so willing to have these gurus claim success for the bodies they show with on stage most bodybuilders are not looked as sources for info on training or nutrition. In what other industry is the coach lauded more than the athlete? It’s really baffling that instead of talking to Ronnie or Jay I would rather talk to Aceto or Nichols. They also end up having much longer careers than bodybuilders and not only that, very few former bodybuilders have ever become successful gurus. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this?

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

Have you ever talked to a pro or former pro about nutrition or even training? Most, not all, but most are almost clueless as to “why” or “how” something works. They just know what they did and what they did doesn’t apply to 99% of even other competitors because they have elite genetics that changes the game for them.

 

[b-boy]

Have you ever talked to a pro or former pro about nutrition or even training? Most, not all, but most are almost clueless as to “why” or “how” something works. They just know what they did and what they did doesn’t apply to 99% of even other competitors because they have elite genetics that changes the game for them.

Yes I have and 90% of them are very knowledgeable at nutrition and especially training. Remember there are all sorts of bodybuilders that went on to become very good gurus. John Meadows, AJ Sims, Matt Porter, Chris Aceto, @scoobysnacks , Phil Viz, Shelby Starnes, Dave Palumbo, and so many more were competitive bodybuilders/pros. I would love to chat with Dorian Yates, Shawn Ray, Charles Glass, Kevin Levrone and many more about training and nutrition.

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

Yes I have and 90% of them are very knowledgeable at nutrition and especially training. Remember there are all sorts of bodybuilders that went on to become very good gurus. John Meadows, AJ Sims, Matt Porter, Chris Aceto, @scoobysnacks , Phil Viz, Shelby Starnes, Dave Palumbo, and so many more were competitive bodybuilders/pros. I would love to chat with Dorian Yates, Shawn Ray, Charles Glass, Kevin Levrone and many more about training and nutrition.

Every bodybuilder you listed that are/were great gurus were not pros, or were coaching before they became a pro. Maybe I mis read the OP. I was referencing pros specifically as most of the ones I have spoken with have a good idea what works for them, but do not understand “why” it works, just that it does. What they do often doesn’t translate to genetically inferior people. So, that is why I wouldn’t go to a “pro” for coaching/advice. Now, exceptions obviously exist. John Jewitt appears to be super knowledgeable and I’m sure others are as well.

 

[Pissbrainiac259]

Have you ever talked to a pro or former pro about nutrition or even training? Most, not all, but most are almost clueless as to “why” or “how” something works. They just know what they did and what they did doesn’t apply to 99% of even other competitors because they have elite genetics that changes the game for them.

What he said.

 

[FK86]

Pros are the last people I'd want to talk to about anything bodybuilding. Dorian would be terrible. He thinks his exact routine is the one everyone should do. Those exercises, in that order, and never change it. I've also heard him say he doesn't have good genetics. Look, if you're on a pro stage, let alone the Olympia, you have great genetics and then it's a matter of the best among the elite.

I've heard Lee Haney, Shawn Ray, and Kevin Levrone all say they use high reps to "carve in detail." This only lets me know how much easier things are for them compared to everyone else for them to believe such nonsense. There's also a video of Shawn Ray outlining his pre-contest diet for the '98 or '99 Olympia and he claims he has no idea what his calories or macros are.

Fouad has admitted he pretty much bought steroids before he bought his gym membership when he started and he always had coaches. He's embarrassed himself on his own podcast a few times over the last two years with how little he knows.

If I asked Ronnie Coleman why he mostly does 12-rep sets, he'd probably say "because Brian told me to."

None of that helps me and I'm thankful for forums and people grinding it out through trial and error and then sharing it publicly.

 

[marssel]

With the use of training and nutrition gurus and bodybuilders so willing to have these gurus claim success for the bodies they show with on stage most bodybuilders are not looked as sources for info on training or nutrition. In what other industry is the coach lauded more than the athlete? It’s really baffling that instead of talking to Ronnie or Jay I would rather talk to Aceto or Nichols. They also end up having much longer careers than bodybuilders and not only that, very few former bodybuilders have ever become successful gurus. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this?

Aceto and Nichols were both bodybuilders, as are most gurus. Only a few pros have I met that weee not well informed. Ronnie didn’t need to be but isn’t stupid, Jay is brilliant. You hire a coach bc it’s hard to be emotionless in assessing your own physique so while many of us have dozens or more of people we prep, we hire outside help with posing, honest opinion, and input on diet. When you’re decarbed training 2-3 hours a day plus tanning and posing it is hard to not be over self deprecating or over confident that’s where coaches come in. If you think Jay or Phil etc can’t prep someone for a show you’re not we’ll informed bro.

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

Aceto and Nichols were both bodybuilders, as are most gurus. Only a few pros have I met that weee not well informed. Ronnie didn’t need to be but isn’t stupid, Jay is brilliant. You hire a coach bc it’s hard to be emotionless in assessing your own physique so while many of us have dozens or more of people we prep, we hire outside help with posing, honest opinion, and input on diet. When you’re decarbed training 2-3 hours a day plus tanning and posing it is hard to not be over self deprecating or over confident that’s where coaches come in. If you think Jay or Phil etc can’t prep someone for a show you’re not we’ll informed bro.

There is a difference in being intelligent and being knowledgeable in a certain subject. Ronnie was certainly no dummy, and Jay is brilliant but that doesn’t mean they are knowledgeable enough to prep other people. Let’s take Fouad for example. He is obviously intelligent, articulate speaker, very successful in everything he puts effort into, but his bodybuilding knowledge is far from guru level. He has attempted coaching on several occasions and has failed. I’ve seen a program he wrote and for the individual he wrote it for, the training volume was insane. This guy didn’t progress at all, was executing the plan, and Fouad blamed him for not progressing. The plan was the problem. Have you heard Fouad speak on PEDs, training, and nutrition? Not saying he doesn’t have decent knowledge, but I wouldn’t let him coach me.

 

[b-boy]

There is a difference in being intelligent and being knowledgeable in a certain subject. Ronnie was certainly no dummy, and Jay is brilliant but that doesn’t mean they are knowledgeable enough to prep other people. Let’s take Fouad for example. He is obviously intelligent, articulate speaker, very successful in everything he puts effort into, but his bodybuilding knowledge is far from guru level. He has attempted coaching on several occasions and has failed. I’ve seen a program he wrote and for the individual he wrote it for, the training volume was insane. This guy didn’t progress at all, was executing the plan, and Fouad blamed him for not progressing. The plan was the problem. Have you heard Fouad speak on PEDs, training, and nutrition? Not saying he doesn’t have decent knowledge, but I wouldn’t let him coach me.

Lol how fucking hard do you think this shit is? Maybe that's the problem, your wanting secrets of the gurus (fairytale). How hard is it to eat in a "slight" calorie deficit, train consistently, sleep enough. This doesn't require a rocket scientist, it just requires level headed thinking which most competitors can't do deep in a diet calorie deprived, sleep deprived and worn out from training and cardio thus a coach or seconds set of eyes comes real handy but they don't have to be rocket scientist.

 

[qbkilla]

With the use of training and nutrition gurus and bodybuilders so willing to have these gurus claim success for the bodies they show with on stage most bodybuilders are not looked as sources for info on training or nutrition. In what other industry is the coach lauded more than the athlete? It’s really baffling that instead of talking to Ronnie or Jay I would rather talk to Aceto or Nichols. They also end up having much longer careers than bodybuilders and not only that, very few former bodybuilders have ever become successful gurus. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this?

I think here lies the problem in this comparison the relationship is not comparable to athletics or sports. These are not coaches and athletes, we are using these terms wrong. Bodybuilding is a competition not an athletic sport. Phil Jackson is a coach and Michael Jordan was an athlete.

These are bodybuilding gurus and bodybuilders. The gurus write a plan (training and diet, dosages) the bodybuilder simply executes it.

 

[alfresco]

I would love to chat with Dorian Yates, Shawn Ray, Charles Glass, Kevin Levrone and many more about training and nutrition.

Why don't you call just them Brad, introduce your self and ask for a few
minutes. Once you establish, which I have no doubt you will with
considering your standing in the sport and personality, I am sure they
will talk with you at least once. (just joking about the once part.)

I have found in my life that if you wanted to meet and or talk with somebody
I was always able to do so. It just takes a moment of your time to
establish contact . . . what have you got to lose? I have always found
it interesting that people are reluctant to contact the people they want to
know and talk with. Don't be dismissive of yourself. You are worth talking to.
You might just surprise yourself at the responses.

The worse that can happen is a no.

 

[taz]

I have been both an athlete/competitor as well as a coach and I can, at least in my own instance, say that I’m a far better coach. To get to the elite level it takes a specific dedication that is over and Above what the average person is capable of.
But it also takes the commitment and knowledge of someone who knows the info but hasn’t been as committed to utilizing it.
My fighters and athletes almost always had greater success than I was able to achieve.
A great coach will push you to your best and will know how to pull every ounce out of you. A good competitor knows when to listen.

 

[5Noles]

Yes I have and 90% of them are very knowledgeable at nutrition and especially training. Remember there are all sorts of bodybuilders that went on to become very good gurus. John Meadows, AJ Sims, Matt Porter, Chris Aceto, @scoobysnacks , Phil Viz, Shelby Starnes, Dave Palumbo, and so many more were competitive bodybuilders/pros. I would love to chat with Dorian Yates, Shawn Ray, Charles Glass, Kevin Levrone and many more about training and nutrition.

Nice one B-boy. Agree.

Waiting for a rebuttal.
Who are the dumb ass Olympians, that know nothing about diet, training, and peds? Just three names?
I’m a newbie, but how does Chad Nichols train someone by looking at pictures. Seems like it would have to be a collaboration to work.

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

Lol how fucking hard do you think this shit is? Maybe that's the problem, your wanting secrets of the gurus (fairytale). How hard is it to eat in a "slight" calorie deficit, train consistently, sleep enough. This doesn't require a rocket scientist, it just requires level headed thinking which most competitors can't do deep in a diet calorie deprived, sleep deprived and worn out from training and cardio thus a coach or seconds set of eyes comes real handy but they don't have to be rocket scientist.

For you with your genetics? Not hard at all. I have prepped myself for multiple shows. I have coached a few competitors. I am not some newbie looking for a secret formula. I would trust my own knowledge over some of the pros that I have met or have listened to in podcasts. It comes easier for genetically blessed bodybuilders. I already provided the example of Fouad. Let’s try another one. Branch was an incredible pro. Would I take training advice from him? Fuck no. There is zero chance my body would hold up to his training style. Good coaches were typically not genetically blessed competitors. Shelby is a pro, but really had to figure things out to get there. Same with Meadows, Berry, and the list goes on.

You mentioned talking training with Levrone, for the competitor with average or even just not elite genetics, what good would that do them? As we all know, he took LONG breaks from training and then would grow into a show. Viz tried that a few years back as an experiment and failed miserably. Probably the worst he ever looked on stage.

Everything works for guys with great genetics. They can but BBQ sauce on everything in prep, or train ballistic like Branch, or take some wonky PED cycle that doesn’t make sense and it still works. I would put you in that category of genetically gifted. The rest of us better have good knowledge or better have a coach with good knowledge, on a broad spectrum of training, nutrition and PED modalities.

 

[5Noles]

I have seen multiple threads on pmf where people post about how dumb Fouad is.
1) He is the owner of hostile
2) He has a very large successful podcast
3) He is an elite bodybuilder
Since 1& 2 indicate that he’s intelligent, I assume that being a big bodybuilder is evidence of his lack of intelligence??
Very much like joe rogan, he has interesting guests, he asks great questions, and he comes across to the audience as being genuinely interested in the guest.

 

[marssel]

Lol how fucking hard do you think this shit is? Maybe that's the problem, your wanting secrets of the gurus (fairytale). How hard is it to eat in a "slight" calorie deficit, train consistently, sleep enough. This doesn't require a rocket scientist, it just requires level headed thinking which most competitors can't do deep in a diet calorie deprived, sleep deprived and worn out from training and cardio thus a coach or seconds set of eyes comes real handy but they don't have to be rocket scientist.

Yea I concur I bet with the training load he under ate and/or underslept. Just having my kid and fucking up my sleep has wreaked havoc with my training, Fouaid is a smart dude and knows PEDs and competing pretty fucking solid

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

I have seen multiple threads on pmf where people post about how dumb Fouad is.
1) He is the owner of hostile
2) He has a very large successful podcast
3) He is an elite bodybuilder
Since 1& 2 indicate that he’s intelligent, I assume that being a big bodybuilder is evidence of his lack of intelligence??
Very much like joe rogan, he has interesting guests, he asks great questions, and he comes across to the audience as being genuinely interested in the guest.

I think I am the only one that referenced Fouad in this thread and I highlighted many of the same points that you made here about him. I don't question his intelligence, but his knowledge in certain aspects of bodybuilding. I feel he is a prime example of knowing what works for him, but now the how and why. I am only speaking in reference to bodybuilding.

 

[275bills]

Why don't you call just them Brad, introduce your self and ask for a few
minutes. Once you establish, which I have no doubt you will with
considering your standing in the sport and personality, I am sure they
will talk with you at least once. (just joking about the once part.)

I have found in my life that if you wanted to meet and or talk with somebody
I was always able to do so. It just takes a moment of your time to
establish contact . . . what have you got to lose? I have always found
it interesting that people are reluctant to contact the people they want to
know and talk with. Don't be dismissive of yourself. You are worth talking to.
You might just surprise yourself at the responses.

The worse that can happen is a no.

I agree with this

Brad when i had a question for yourself i was hesitant to pm you but i did and you answered with a genuine response

 

[marssel]

I have seen multiple threads on pmf where people post about how dumb Fouad is.
1) He is the owner of hostile
2) He has a very large successful podcast
3) He is an elite bodybuilder
Since 1& 2 indicate that he’s intelligent, I assume that being a big bodybuilder is evidence of his lack of intelligence??
Very much like joe rogan, he has interesting guests, he asks great questions, and he comes across to the audience as being genuinely interested in the guest.

Spot fucking on, also if you watch the progression of his career he is not in the genetic 1%, yes great genes but he grinder his way up to his max potential that is more impressive than a genetic freak getting to the same place as far as show placing a. I can remember him being smaller than a lot of us and he just kept fucking goin and didn’t wreck his body in the process.

 

[iron lifter]

Pros are the last people I'd want to talk to about anything bodybuilding. Dorian would be terrible. He thinks his exact routine is the one everyone should do. Those exercises, in that order, and never change it. I've also heard him say he doesn't have good genetics. Look, if you're on a pro stage, let alone the Olympia, you have great genetics and then it's a matter of the best among the elite.

I've heard Lee Haney, Shawn Ray, and Kevin Levrone all say they use high reps to "carve in detail." This only lets me know how much easier things are for them compared to everyone else for them to believe such nonsense. There's also a video of Shawn Ray outlining his pre-contest diet for the '98 or '99 Olympia and he claims he has no idea what his calories or macros are.

Fouad has admitted he pretty much bought steroids before he bought his gym membership when he started and he always had coaches. He's embarrassed himself on his own podcast a few times over the last two years with how little he knows.

If I asked Ronnie Coleman why he mostly does 12-rep sets, he'd probably say "because Brian told me to."

None of that helps me and I'm thankful for forums and people grinding it out through trial and error and then sharing it publicly.

and those are the ones that go onto win shows. paralysis by analysis is what holds back to many. not to be rude but being dumb or ignorant and more of a yes man head down and work is how these guys work, its how chad chris etc get the most out of them. not everyone is coachable.

just because they can't explain something doesn't they are dumb. they never chose to ask cause why would they. they trusted who they had training them and giving them nutrition advice and it worked. they had one focus to train eat sleep. not so worried about why x drugs works with y or pinky twist this etc.

if you look at any training video and I'm not against a progressive attitude towards bettering equipment and all that but no one trains old school. i have seen like 20 different videos of how to do a damn lat pull down in the last year on instagram? different handles, but this bench on top of this LOL. wtf.

did jay Ronnie or Dorian have that. what equipment existed 20 -25 years ago in a gym and look at the physiques. no one even does standing dumbbells' flies anymore they all have goofy machines made by every company that you can do in any fuckin position you can dream of.

what happened to just old school dumbbells' barbell and incline only? the new trend is squatting in a smith machine with wedges and some stupid rope to hold onto.