Test dosage you can handle without the use of AI/DHT

[pistonpump]

Not sure but I would guess 250-300

 

[hawkmoon]

Up to ~500mg I am usually ok.

I have noticed I aromatize a lot less in my 50s than 40s. May be in part to staying lean all the time as well.

 

[Biohazard]

I used to think I was very sensitive to estrogen, then I started jabbing daily. Have been as high as 500mg split into daily jabs and had no issues with estro

 

[bigzzz]

I used to think I was very sensitive to estrogen, then I started jabbing daily. Have been as high as 500mg split into daily jabs and had no issues with estro

I'm noticing zero benefits from ED to let's say 3x per week. I think it is a bit of a hype these days.

 

[juggy38]

I’m a bloated mess on 250mg no AI.

 

[plane]

Cosmetically and noticable sides? Well last year I ran up to 1750mg of sustanon per week alongside 350mg tren ace for a brief period of time with minimal issues (I find 21 days on sustanon is enough to 'blow up' into a new size) I was retaining some water but the fullness made up for it; still had visible serratus and abs with veins running up over the lower abs, could still see the splits inbetween biceps if I flexed at times.

I blasted the test high once I was already low bodyfat, I think thats one of the keys.

Anyways after a while of course things went downhill and I backed the test back down to 125mg sustanon per day instead at the time.

So once lowbodyfat, I think you can tolerate alot more - for brief periods of time, I think alot of bodybuilding is obviously using the right drugs at the RIGHT time for the desired result, things are constantly changing, I don't believe in an set cycle of dosages or compounds for this reason. (drugs in and out, dosages played with - mirror as your guide for the most part)

Now If i added deca into the equation, I'd 100% need to add in arimidex and/or arimidex + masteron/another dht based compound

 

[Biohazard]

I'm noticing zero benefits from ED to let's say 3x per week. I think it is a bit of a hype these days.

I went straight from twice weekly to ED, I did notice immediate benefit (maybe 3 x weekly of long ester would be as good). I used to struggle to run 250mg test during a cruise when shooting twice weekly, I'd have to add 0.5mg adex on the days I jabbed. Switching to ED I never had another issue, was no need for me to use adex. Estrogen on bloods was also lower

 

[pickapeck]

Zero

I may be able to use 2 mg/w. I can use Test prop at 175 mg/w split 50 mg EOD without water. The ester makes a difference for me. Same amount of TC and I have water/estrogen.

 

[Hyper-T]

200mg a week is about as high as I can go without ai before nips will start itching.

 

[thethinker48]

600 mgs a week

P.S- Estrogen "sides" aren't a definitive indicator of estrogen level. An actual blood test result is lol

 

[mslmn]

1 gram.

 

[specter]

200mg anything above that and my titties start growing

 

[nothuman]

My estradiol is in the high 50s and DHT is 88 on 20mg test cyp daily. Free Test is at the very top of range on this dose.

Considering going down to 16mg per day of test

 

[Fleezy]

Thread should be:

‘How many of you are using underdosed test?’

 

[5Noles]

Victor Black says estrogen positively does NOT cause water retention LOL. He has a bit of fight with Dean StMart who says estrogen can cause some extracellular water retention. Check IG if you are interested seeing these guys argue LOL. But it is a bit of an interesting topic for us because we always assume estrogen causes major water retention. But is it true or is it due to the mineralcorticoid effects of the steroids or something else?

Anyway, VC talks about taking as much test as you can handle without ancillaries. But what does it mean? I mean I know guys who never used any type of ancillary and handle 3 or 4 grams test just fine, no complaints LOL. I never used any AI or DHT blocker and had no complaints really.

When I tried trest for the first time, which was not that long ago, I immediately had my bitch tits swell up, unlike any other steroid, not that quickly.
But I could not see any extra water retention. Logically there should be some, as most steroids cause water retention, but it didn't seem to add any extra bloat when added to a moderate stack of test etc despite the estrogenic nature of the compound

Victor Black is consistently misquoted on PMF.

1) estrogen, testosterone, progesterone all result in water retention
2) estrogen is both protective and hypertrophic
3) gyno and water retention are the result of an imbalance between testosterone, progesterone, & estrogen.
Two questions
1) why is estrogen the bad guy?
4) If you have a sides resulting from an imbalance, why reduce a good (estrogen) with a bad (arimidex) as a first option? Why not add a dht to restore balance.

Some of the members of this board are “safer” use guys. Many of us are high risk guys.

“How to mitigate estrogen side effects” link below

 

[juggy38]

300mg test/200mg primo is an amazing mini cycle. I’m horny as fuck, recovery great, mild gains if I’ve been true HRT for awhile , or can hold tissue while dieting.

I might try 150mg/75-100mg primo for longer term “cruise”

 

[mike036]

My estradiol is in the high 50s and DHT is 88 on 20mg test cyp daily. Free Test is at the very top of range on this dose.

Considering going down to 16mg per day of test

My recent results on 20mg/day test Cyp was 1081 total, 28.4 free, 42 estradiol and 112 dht. I actually just lowered my dose to 16mg/day

 

[luki7788]

with 2g test and 1g mast he had e2 -65 without IA which is really good - now he does 3g test, 1g mast and 18iu serostim but he hasn't tested e2 yet but he says he doesn't see any estrogen sides

 

[Zarati]

Zero

Exactly my issue... I and test don't get a long

 

[phoenix2]

For me it doesn't work that way.
Whenever i add a DHT compound to a given dose of test (and AI), the SHBG binding/lowering effect od DHTs makes me more prone to estrogens sides (gyno, water, mood, libido, lethargy and so on) so i have to INCREASE AI dosage.
It's not always about balance, not for all at least.
Winstrol, masteron, proviron, var... It doesn't matter... They make me aromatize more.