Peaking and Diuretics question

[TheSteamboat]

I was curious about this as it was brought up in the Marc lobliner thread where he was looking insanely vascular in Instagram pictures but not on stage.

When peaking, I often hear how diuretics can make or break a look. When they are used, what causes the physique to worsen? Is it due to not having enough sodium and water to fill out after the diuretic use?

If so, wouldn’t it be wisest to only use them if the client is holding water for some external factor? (Plane ride, stress etc)?

 

[Virtuous]

Yeah I mean it’s like estrogen management to the extent that you can’t (or rather, shouldnt) apply a blanket approach to everyone.

Ideally, you’d get very fluent with how to incorporate them, and when, but to your point it just seems so many people throw them in because “everyone does it,” and they end up looking like ass.

Messing with water balance is a super tricky proposition, and some guys really just gamble at shows with it.

 

[Gunsmith]

I've only seen someone peak really well using a diuretic once and they used a crazy super compensation protocol that Milos supposedly uses that prevents you from going flat.
Every other time I've seen someone use them they ended up not looming as well as they did the day before.
I think people try to use them thinking they are holding water when in fact they are just not lean enough.
If you are peeled and your estrogen is managed right then simply reducing your water is all that's needed , even cutting it out completely can flatten you out

 

[b-boy]

No one looks as good under bright as hell stage lights as they do in the gym or home.

Most competitors are competing early in the am or noon, not much food or sodium in them and definitely not super hydrated so they aren't veiny roadmaps.

It's usually not very warm backstage and you are in minimal clothing (posing suit) so veins are going to be as prominent as when the IG guys get out of the sauna or tanning bed and post pics for the gram looking all crazy vascular to get likes

Just some thoughts ^^^

 

[bbxtreme]

I've only seen someone peak really well using a diuretic once and they used a crazy super compensation protocol that Milos supposedly uses that prevents you from going flat.
Every other time I've seen someone use them they ended up not looming as well as they did the day before.
I think people try to use them thinking they are holding water when in fact they are just not lean enough.
If you are peeled and your estrogen is managed right then simply reducing your water is all that's needed , even cutting it out completely can flatten you out

This right here. Get lean enough and you shouldn’t need a diuretic. They are a fast way to death or to ruin your look if you’re not careful.

So many guys don’t know how to use certain diuretics and go flat. Or they only know about Lasix which is playing with death and will cramp up on stage.

The safest one is dyazide as many have suggested here over the years.

But most people who think they need a diuretic are really weeks away from being ready to step on stage and need to cut harder.

 

[b-boy]

Diuretics are a slippery slope, if used properly they can give you a tight shrink-wrap look, if used improperly they can make you look smooth and soft.
Water and electrolytes become very important parts of the process, you want to pull the majority of the water from the subcutaneous stores and not from within the muscle.
Use them as needed and very sparingly, I honestly prefer just a good over the counter water shed pill. If your shredded you should be DRY already.

 

[aHarness]

Diuretics are a slippery slope, if used properly they can give you a tight shrink-wrap look, if used improperly they can make you look smooth and soft.
Water and electrolytes become very important parts of the process, you want to pull the majority of the water from the subcutaneous stores and not from within the muscle.
Use them as needed and very sparingly, I honestly prefer just a good over the counter water shed pill. If your shredded you should be DRY already.

I assume the cause of the smooth and soft look when using them is not enough water/electrolytes to properly transport carbs?

 

[TheSteamboat]

Diuretics are a slippery slope, if used properly they can give you a tight shrink-wrap look, if used improperly they can make you look smooth and soft.
Water and electrolytes become very important parts of the process, you want to pull the majority of the water from the subcutaneous stores and not from within the muscle.
Use them as needed and very sparingly, I honestly prefer just a good over the counter water shed pill. If you’re shredded you should be DRY already.

It’s funny because I know lots of guys who run diuretics regularly to try and look shredded year round, when in reality id really imagine if anything they are doing a disservice to their look.

 

[PhillD]

No one looks as good under bright as hell stage lights as they do in the gym or home.

Most competitors are competing early in the am or noon, not much food or sodium in them and definitely not super hydrated so they aren't veiny roadmaps.

It's usually not very warm backstage and you are in minimal clothing (posing suit) so veins are going to be as prominent as when the IG guys get out of the sauna or tanning bed and post pics for the gram looking all crazy vascular to get likes

Just some thoughts ^^^

...and they will certainly never be like the photos posted on instagram... ah, the technology!

 

[pesty4077]

If you peaked correctly, you wouldn't need diuretics.

 

[b-boy]

I assume the cause of the smooth and soft look when using them is not enough water/electrolytes to properly transport carbs?

Or simply them (diuretics) doing their job well and pulling water from everywhere including intra-muscular (flat soft looking muscle)

 

[aHarness]

Or simply them (diuretics) doing their job well and pulling water from everywhere including intra-muscular (flat soft looking muscle)

So it really is always a gamble then even when everything is done correctly it seems

 

[Wayacrucis]

I completely agree that using a diuretic improperly will do more harm than good.

I also believe that you can never achieve the level of dryness that you could with a diuretic versus without.

Maybe for some individuals the less dry look is a BETTER look. For others, the drier, albeit less full look may be the better look.

 

[aHarness]

I completely agree that using a diuretic improperly will do more harm than good.

I also believe that you can never achieve the level of dryness that you could with a diuretic versus without.

Maybe for some individuals the less dry look is a BETTER look. For others, the drier, albeit less full look may be the better look.

What kind of dose are they using of diuretics to create such a drastic change?

I use 12.5mg HCTZ in the offseason myself for water retention/BP control and don’t notice too much, but I’m also hydrating and eating plenty of carbs so I imagine it’s very different.

 

[Gunsmith]

simply manipulating your water you can pretty much dehydrate yourself over night.
I work with a Pro MMA fighter and Boxer who walks around normally about 215 reasonably lean and fights from 205-185. He fights tomorrow night at 185 , we dieted him down to weighing 198 yesterday morning at 5am. All week we increased his sodium an water each to where he was drinking 3.5 gallons a day yesterday.
last night we cut his water at 9pm at 199lbs , at 5am this morning he was 192. After 2 meals and 20oz of water he was 188 at 10am , a 5 min hit bath and he was at 183 at 1pm , ate a meal and sipped some water and made weight at 184.7 at 2pm
zero diuretics , high water and high sodium and he dried out plenty but was definitely flat.
first picture (selfy) yesterday morning , second was at weighing in.

granted making weight for a fight is totally different than drying out for a show because it doesn't matter how you look in a fight. The points to show how much water you can cut without any drugs at all.

 

[BlueShocker]

Or simply them (diuretics) doing their job well and pulling water from everywhere including intra-muscular (flat soft looking muscle)

So if using a diuretic, you’ll essentially always be flat/less vascular, but at the cost of potentially losing some potential subq water? Seems like it could mostly be avoided by being lean enough, no?

 

[b-boy]

So if using a diuretic, you’ll essentially always be flat/less vascular, but at the cost of potentially losing some potential subq water? Seems like it could mostly be avoided by being lean enough, no?

If running really high androgens or wanting to keep gh in you may hold some water from those substances and a diuretic could be useful (the least amount you can get away with it). Just because a diuretic pulls water from everywhere it doesn't mean your muscle have to be flat, the better you keep your electrolytes in balance the better you will be.

 

[BlueShocker]

If running really high androgens or wanting to keep gh in you may hold some water from those substances and a diuretic could be useful (the least amount you can get away with it). Just because a diuretic pulls water from everywhere it doesn't mean your muscle have to be flat, the better you keep your electrolytes in balance the better you will be.

That makes sense. Is the typical issue then that people OVERDO the diuretic dose then to a point that they essentially don’t have time to fill back out?

If the electrolyte balance is a large issue too, why do people typically use a potassium sparing rather than a non potassium sparing that would excrete (I imagine) rather evenly?

Sorry if dumb question, I don’t compete I’m just a hobbyist.

 

[bbxtreme]

That makes sense. Is the typical issue then that people OVERDO the diuretic dose then to a point that they essentially don’t have time to fill back out?

If the electrolyte balance is a large issue too, why do people typically use a potassium sparing rather than a non potassium sparing that would excrete (I imagine) rather evenly?

Sorry if dumb question, I don’t compete I’m just a hobbyist.

taking too many diuretics and not filling out properly with electrolytes is like a runaway train- good luck catching it.

You see it all the time with guys who look completely different at the night show than pre-judging.

The other end can be true as well though. I’ve seen guys look insane at pre-judging who didn’t know what they were doing, took too many diuretics and show up at the night show after chasing it too hard looking like a water buffalo. They “spilled over” as some call it.

That’s why you monitor everything and use as little as possible (diuretics) if you even need them.

 

[BlueShocker]

taking too many diuretics and not filling out properly with electrolytes is like a runaway train- good luck catching it.

You see it all the time with guys who look completely different at the night show than pre-judging.

The other end can be true as well though. I’ve seen guys look insane at pre-judging who didn’t know what they were doing, took too many diuretics and show up at the night show after chasing it too hard looking like a water buffalo. They “spilled over” as some call it.

That’s why you monitor everything and use as little as possible (diuretics) if you even need them.

I’m sure it’s very case to case, but how does one fill out properly with electrolytes after a diuretic?