Highest primo was it worth it?

[pecanpiepig]

I’m betting like 50% of side effects are caused by the internet. If the haven’t read about they wouldn’t even know they were “supposed” to be getting them

high dose winstrol underrated for muscle gain ?

 

[pickapeck]

It was but oddly Ben Johnson's coach, Charlie Francis, obtained Turinibol from the East Germans if I recall. Turinibol cane about as a winstrol replacement that they weren't testing for yet - note that the team was told it was winstrol even though it wasn't. Canadian team including Johnson got Turinibol and no one else failed a drug test. Somehow Johnson tested positive for winstrol and therein lies the mystery. Francis gave him and other athletes Turinibol not winstrol for exactly this reason. No one else failed for winstrol. Johnson swears up and down he only used what he was given and didn't go and source his own "winstrol" to increase the dose. How did he test positive for a drug he didn't take? Either someone is lying or there was a problem with the test - apparently there were irregularities and others in the room as well as access to Johnson's sample. Obviously Carl Lewis was a US favorite. No one knows or has said. These testing and access issues would have likely nuked the testing validity of another athlete, like say Lewis, but Canada didn't have that pull and drugs were a big scandal then and political platform to see them scheduled and "save our youth and sports". A shame because Charlie was known for producing top sprinters over many years and using less drugs than others. He was banned for life.

This is from memory as I was Francis' forum many years ago and it would come up occasionally. Charlie is passed now but more info and the whole story is in his book. "Speed Trap" which tells it all.

I thought Johnson took Furazabol but popped for Winstrol. I think the messaging and rumors were all over the place. I remember an interview where Johnson said he tested positive for something he didn't take. He inferred everyone was taking and some didn't pop and he popped for something he wasn't taking. To me the whole thing stunk to the high heavens and smelled like they needed to pin steroids on someone and Johnson was it. Then the media held up Lewis like St Carl from 'Merica and he pranced around like the natty messiah. Then the Senate investigative committee was run by Senator Luger and, you guessed it, our coke head pedophile dementia patient currently at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

 

[Mufasa123]

T-bol didnt come by as a replacement for winstrol, it was specifically made by the DDR because it was an unknown steroid and they didnt have a test for it yet, they gave it to everybody including children. There is several documentaries about it and all the use was documented by the east german goverment, the abuse in the DDR was rampant including the children.

I didn't mean to say it was made necessarily but it came into major use due to winstrol being tested for.

 

[Mufasa123]

I thought Johnson took Furazabol but popped for Winstrol. I think the messaging and rumors were all over the place. I remember an interview where Johnson said he tested positive for something he didn't take. He inferred everyone was taking and some didn't pop and he popped for something he wasn't taking. To me the whole thing stunk to the high heavens and smelled like they needed to pin steroids on someone and Johnson was it. Then the media held up Lewis like St Carl from 'Merica and he pranced around like the natty messiah. Then the Senate investigative committee was run by Senator Luger and, you guessed it, our coke head pedophile dementia patient currently at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

You may be right and I may be consuming Furazabol and Turinabol. Both weren't being tested for a while and winny, the old fav, was being tested for. I just saw it all getting discussed a few times including with Charlie participating but that kind of detail I could forget.

But yeah, so much bullshit in that. Francis was a straight shooter and had nothing to lose really as he'd already lost it all. I still have some of his training stuff. That was a great S&C forum and strength training knowledge ran deep as well. One of the lesser known nooks on the net for high quality stuff, though geared more toward track and field performance than BBing.

 

[qbkilla]

I’m betting like 50% of side effects are caused by the internet. If the haven’t read about they wouldn’t even know they were “supposed” to be getting them

Amen. I've ran winstrol zero joint issues, never had a limp dick on deca either but apparently winny is hell on joints and deca kills libido.

 

[specter]

I didn't mean to say it was made necessarily but it came into major use due to winstrol being tested for.

Ah okay, that we can agree on, smart move by them.

 

[specter]

Seems like those who have used tbol rate it as a favorite...but overall it's still way less popular than dbol drol var winny?

Personally i tried it and felt like shit on it, i think partly due to the way i metabolize certain drugs, i know several guys who love tbol i think the reason it isnt widely used is the same as for primo etc many think its often faked and a lesser more cheap roid is put instead of the real drug.

 

[pecanpiepig]

Personally i tried it and felt like shit on it, i think partly due to the way i metabolize certain drugs, i know several guys who love tbol i think the reason it isnt widely used is the same as for primo etc many think its often faked and a lesser more cheap roid is put instead of the real drug.

What made you feel shit on it??

 

[pickapeck]

Seems like those who have used tbol rate it as a favorite...but overall it's still way less popular than dbol drol var winny?

I had some raws years ago. Tested it and was the real deal. I used it with test and mast and it was vary good. I did test/mast first and then added it at 40 mg/d. Added strength, filling and complemented the other two nicely. no real water retention in that setting.

 

[Mufasa123]

I had some raws years ago. Tested it and was the real deal. I used it with test and mast and it was vary good. I did test/mast first and then added it at 40 mg/d. Added strength, filling and complemented the other two nicely. no real water retention in that setting.

Curious as I've never run it but get in fine with orals even later in life. Tbol vs winny and/or anavar? I realize n=1 but curious to your opinion.

 

[Mufasa123]

Amen. I've ran winstrol zero joint issues, never had a limp dick on deca either but apparently winny is hell on joints and deca kills libido.

I've seen both sides. When I was in my early 20s I could run deca higher than test and even deca alone. Great libido, lasted and low refractory times vs natural too. Now that I'm older I very much see a hit and test has to be equal or greater than deca, higher doses requiring more mg of higher test to hit that level.

So have had both experiences in the same body, I get it for sure now but in my younger days I'd have called BS largely as NO ONE even talked about deca issues libido, mental or whatever.

Now all that said, I absolutely don't discount the paranoid worry wart factor. This seems especially prevalent on the older TRT guys just getting intro stuff (or band new young guys) as they are inexperienced and a lot more worried about health and feel vs muscle/gym/performance (otherwise they'd have experience before medical need). It's like the 100mg TRT guys taking 50mg of deca and flipping themselves out. That said these dudes have money and actually get bloods and without them we'd still think primo/equipoise never hit E2 on anyone or primo was the perfect drug and didn't hit HDL at any dose. I get bloods and see it but the fact that these drugs are ancient and we only now see this in data (or have any data) shows how rare real blood work was in the BBing community. Over the last 40 years.

 

[pickapeck]

Curious as I've never run it but get in fine with orals even later in life. Tbol vs winny and/or anavar? I realize n=1 but curious to your opinion.

Similar to anavar. Better on joints but not nearly as drying as winstrol. If winstrol didn't kill my joints I probably wouldn't run any other orals. I use to love the stuff.

 

[pecanpiepig]

Similar to anavar. Better on joints but not nearly as drying as winstrol. If winstrol didn't kill my joints I probably wouldn't run any other orals. I use to love the stuff.

sell me on winstrol !!

 

[pickapeck]

I've seen both sides. When I was in my early 20s I could run deca higher than test and even deca alone. Great libido, lasted and low refractory times vs natural too. Now that I'm older I very much see a hit and test has to be equal or greater than deca, higher doses requiring more mg of higher test to hit that level.

So have had both experiences in the same body, I get it for sure now but in my younger days I'd have called BS largely as NO ONE even talked about deca issues libido, mental or whatever.

Now all that said, I absolutely don't discount the paranoid worry wart factor. This seems especially prevalent on the older TRT guys just getting intro stuff (or band new young guys) as they are inexperienced and a lot more worried about health and feel vs muscle/gym/performance (otherwise they'd have experience before medical need). It's like the 100mg TRT guys taking 50mg of deca and flipping themselves out. That said these dudes have money and actually get bloods and without them we'd still think primo/equipoise never hit E2 on anyone or primo was the perfect drug and didn't hit HDL at any dose. I get bloods and see it but the fact that these drugs are ancient and we only now see this in data (or have any data) shows how rare real blood work was in the BBing community. Over the last 40 years.

I also wonder if it isn't these self educated gurus all over YouTube making assumptions and twisting things up. Some of it is great but other stuff is a little ridiculous. I do think Primo and mast can lower estradiol but like I said, some stuff is base on false assumptions and extrapolation from disease states, clinical dosing to BBing dosing and animal studies to human etc. One guy swore up and down that no man has total test levels of 1000 ng/dL. I reminded him that 10 years ago the range went to 1200 ng/dL. Still he insisted. I pointed out how ranges are set on population statistics. Ranges are chosen based on specific confidence intervals such as 95% ~ 2 standard deviations from the mean. So in apopulation that generated a range of say 300 - 1200 ng/dL and if 95% of the population falls within 1200 ng/dL that means that some small % have a level of 1000 ng/dL. He just barked at me that he puts out enough free content that he doesn't have to debate these things. I do this shit for a living. As a guy (he) with a Ph. D. he really should have known this. So if he has no clue how normal ranges are set, what else is he fucking up.

 

[pickapeck]

sell me on winstrol !!

I don't work in sales or marketing. besides, you could be 15 years old for all I know.

 

[Doitagain]

If you buy fake primo now a days it’s because your retarded.

There are literally sponsors that sell primo with HPLC janoshik results with the matching batch number. And there’s sponsors with here with dozens and dozens of HPLC results from the prior years and everything is within 10%~ of label

This made me laugh but it's definitely true

 

[Cerberus777]

That's because winstrol doesn't act on the joints.

If anyone still wants to claim it does then bring evidence of the mechanism of action with your claim.

Also you're the fastest right when the drug clears and the muscles relax. The tightened look is great for us but not for performance.

 

[pecanpiepig]

Also you're the fastest right when the drug clears and the muscles relax. The tightened look is great for us but not for performance.

I remember Victor Conte mentioned that on a joe rogan podcast but thought it was just some bro science.., This is a dumb question but what's the purpose of athletes taking it during training phases if it hinders the performance?

 

[Cerberus777]

I remember Victor Conte mentioned that on a joe rogan podcast but thought it was just some bro science.., This is a dumb question but what's the purpose of athletes taking it during training phases if it hinders the performance?

Trian to build strong fibers.

 

[Mufasa123]

I also wonder if it isn't these self educated gurus all over YouTube making assumptions and twisting things up. Some of it is great but other stuff is a little ridiculous. I do think Primo and mast can lower estradiol but like I said, some stuff is base on false assumptions and extrapolation from disease states, clinical dosing to BBing dosing and animal studies to human etc. One guy swore up and down that no man has total test levels of 1000 ng/dL. I reminded him that 10 years ago the range went to 1200 ng/dL. Still he insisted. I pointed out how ranges are set on population statistics. Ranges are chosen based on specific confidence intervals such as 95% ~ 2 standard deviations from the mean. So in apopulation that generated a range of say 300 - 1200 ng/dL and if 95% of the population falls within 1200 ng/dL that means that some small % have a level of 1000 ng/dL. He just barked at me that he puts out enough free content that he doesn't have to debate these things. I do this shit for a living. As a guy (he) with a Ph. D. he really should have known this. So if he has no clue how normal ranges are set, what else is he fucking up.

Jeez, that shit is pretty common knowledge on how the ranges are set based on populations (and serum test ranges in humans aren't exactly esoteric niche stuff). Nice to put out free shit but his credibility is kind of weak after that especially when he's taking a big pissy stand on it.