PROVIRON, WORTH IT??

[Phidias]

200 lbs @ 16% bf and you talk about tren and dnp!

Please do yourself a favor and listen to Big Bapper... use something milder.

Proviron is great.

 

[inoverdrive]

Stay away from the DNP. If you dont though at least RESEARCH. DNP can kill you easily if not used right. It is some wicked wicked stuff!

 

[xmyb420x]

This would be my first cycle of AAS.

Bro, i really think you know allot on paper, but you should listen to the real world experiences of the guys here who are all suggesting using something a little milder for your first cycle....

You want to get to know what works in your body, what doesn't, and what has bad sides if you get them. You'll never be able to asses anything playing it your way.

Also, do you not mind being a pin cushion ??
Over a mere 12 week cycle at your design, you'll have to inj yourself over 175 times!


My advice : run Test E/C for for about 12 weeks by itself..
E3rd or 4th day for no more than 600mg per week

 

[FutureFreak]

Are you serious, its one of the best drugs you can run with Test.

Pretty serious considering the price. Lets say hypothetically, 50, 25mg proviron tabs were 80-100 dollars, I think that 100 dollars would be better invested into "hypothetically" stanazolol of drostanolone. I mean, proviron IS NOT anabolic, ONLY androgenic and has so so effects on blocking estrogen. It wont build muscle, and for the price isnt worth the little benefits it reaps. As far as lowering SHBG, well, stano, and drostano do that and also have anti-estro effects, PLUS build muscle!!! I believe I have read somewhere that lowering SHBG isnt always a good thing because you can potentially free up ESTROGEN as well....?

 

[KillerStack]

As far as lowering SHBG, well, stano, and drostano do that and also have anti-estro effects, PLUS build muscle!!! I believe I have read somewhere that lowering SHBG isnt always a good thing because you can potentially free up ESTROGEN as well....?

Yeah, all steroids lower shbg actually. You could just bump up the test dosage and get lower shbg.

Some may feel Proviron helps gains but it could be for some other reason, some other mechanism apart from lowering shbg.

 

[Quad-smack]

More is deff not better. Especially for your 1st run. * only and MAYBE * as an adjunct. Keep it simple. If something goes bad or just dosen't work - how are you going to figure out what it was?
I have been in this game for well over 20 years and can honestly tell you that gear is not the end-all-be-all. It is like a tool that can be used properly or not. In my opinion you are about to use an 18 lb sledgehammer to drive in a trim nail. Yeah it will get the job done & in convincing fashion BUT the potential for a lot of damage is there...
Many good Bro's here have given their advise - if you choose not to listen to their experience then your problems will not be on our conscience...

 

[Big Bapper]

Pretty serious considering the price. Lets say hypothetically, 50, 25mg proviron tabs were 80-100 dollars, I think that 100 dollars would be better invested into "hypothetically" stanazolol of drostanolone. I mean, proviron IS NOT anabolic, ONLY androgenic and has so so effects on blocking estrogen. It wont build muscle, and for the price isnt worth the little benefits it reaps. As far as lowering SHBG, well, stano, and drostano do that and also have anti-estro effects, PLUS build muscle!!! I believe I have read somewhere that lowering SHBG isnt always a good thing because you can potentially free up ESTROGEN as well....?

"Hypothetically" I love that word. If you are paying that much for proviron then "hypothetically" you are being ripped off. Proviron is not anabolic you are correct. Winstrol and mastaron(that's the drug you are talking about correct ?) yes are anabolic and will lower SHGB to the same degree as proviron I would have to disagree. Regards winny and masts anti estrogen effect that you talk about could that be due to there effect on lowering SHGB maybe. I have never heard of anyone "hypothetically"(sorry just love that word) lowering SHGB to the degree that it frees estrogen.

 

[Big Bapper]

.....Not worth it. Save the cash and invest into LBA's, protein isolate, micronized creatine....etc...

You have me a little confused now Bro. "Hypothetically" would I be better spending my money on the above products or winny and mast. I don't mean to be sarcastic or disrespectful and really appreciate your input to this thread. I am just really keen to learn.

Respect

 

[Big Bapper]

Yeah, all steroids lower shbg actually. You could just bump up the test dosage and get lower shbg.

Some may feel Proviron helps gains but it could be for some other reason, some other mechanism apart from lowering shbg.

Are you sure, I know proviron, winny, mast even slin to a degree lower SHGB. But by increasing your dose of test could only result in a raise of SHGB IMO.

 

[halflife]

Pretty serious considering the price. Lets say hypothetically, 50, 25mg proviron tabs were 80-100 dollars, I think that 100 dollars would be better invested into "hypothetically" stanazolol of drostanolone. I mean, proviron IS NOT anabolic, ONLY androgenic and has so so effects on blocking estrogen. It wont build muscle, and for the price isnt worth the little benefits it reaps. As far as lowering SHBG, well, stano, and drostano do that and also have anti-estro effects, PLUS build muscle!!! I believe I have read somewhere that lowering SHBG isnt always a good thing because you can potentially free up ESTROGEN as well....?

It is Anabolic... you must be reading too much of Duchaine's old stuff. Weak but anabolic.

Increasing the test is not a good idea for long cycles. The increasing dosage won't stop...

 

[KillerStack]

Are you sure, I know proviron, winny, mast even slin to a degree lower SHGB. But by increasing your dose of test could only result in a raise of SHGB IMO.

Nope. Testosterone reduces SHBG in a dose dependent manner.


http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/6/E1172/T2

Serum SHBG levels decreased dose dependently at the 300- and 600-mg doses

600 mg weekly of TE lowered SHBG from a baseline value of 40.1 ± 4.9 nmol/L to 20.6 ± 3.2 nmol/L.

SHBG was halved from baseline with 600mg of test.

Some steroids may lower SHBG more but generally speaking they all lower SHBG to my knowledge.

 

[KillerStack]

Nope. Testosterone reduces SHBG in a dose dependent manner.


http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/6/E1172/T2



SHBG was halved from baseline with 600mg of test.

Some steroids may lower SHBG more but generally speaking they all lower SHBG to my knowledge.

Another thing. It's generally accepted that estrogen increases SHBG while androgens lower it. Controlling estrogen with an aromatase inhibitor should bring it down further.

 

[MR. BMJ]

I love Proviron

BMJ

 

[Big Bapper]

Nope. Testosterone reduces SHBG in a dose dependent manner.


http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/6/E1172/T2



SHBG was halved from baseline with 600mg of test.

Some steroids may lower SHBG more but generally speaking they all lower SHBG to my knowledge.

Yes, testrostrone reduces SHBG to some degree but only for a short time, however raies it alot more over a peroid of time. That is why I would think Proviron would be a good choice to use with testrostrone because it lowers SHBG

 

[Big Bapper]

Another thing. It's generally accepted that estrogen increases SHBG while androgens lower it. Controlling estrogen with an aromatase inhibitor should bring it down further.

I would agree, thanks for the post. Respect.

 

[machola]

nothing compares to proviron for binding to shbg. its worthless to take it alone because its not anabolic. but if you stack it with aas it raises "free" aas level... this is from anabolics 2006 page 16: majority of testosterone is bound to 2 proteins and unavailable to muscle. when it binds to the proteins it can't build muscle. typicaly 45% of test is bound to shbg, 53% bound to albumin. remaining 2% is available to the androgen receptors to build muscle...

page 25 anabolics 2006:
mg per mg proviron binds to shbg 23 times more than test

 

[ironone1]

I like proviron. I wouldn't touch fina anymore after hearing about all the shit that is in it. Its for cattle, not humans. I would use tren powder if you use tren. I'm done with tren. I had the worst cold sweats from it and the flu, along with kidney pains.

 

[KillerStack]

Yes, testrostrone reduces SHBG to some degree but only for a short time, however raies it alot more over a peroid of time. That is why I would think Proviron would be a good choice to use with testrostrone because it lowers SHBG

I would be very interested in seeing some data showing this.

Anyone?

 

[FutureFreak]

HYPOTHETICALLY I dont know what terms to use in this day and age with all the focus on performance enhancing drugs that our country seems to have a hard-on for. Im just trying to be politically correct. I do agree the "hypothetical" was kinda catchy and funny! Anyways, I am NOT saying creatine, whey isolate is better than winny and mast....NO WAY NO HOW! I would just rather put my saved up proviron money and buy more quality creatine and whey isolate to compliment my winny and masteron Like i stated I will dig up the study thats states lowring SHBG can also free estrogen as well.....

 

[KillerStack]

Like i stated I will dig up the study thats states lowring SHBG can also free estrogen as well.....

Why would anyone doubt that? Of course it will. The name itself suggests that.