Blood work Test Levels came back at 30, aw fuck

[cjc]

might as well go back on the juice, then slowly over time reduce the dose while increasing re-bound substances, till you aren't using any juice at all, but only rebound substances for a while.

 

[ROCKEDUP]

.

 

[EliteMuscle1]

If you dont mind me asking what was the surgery for and was it directly related to your endocrin system?

 

[ronnieron]

I would continue with the hcg and clomid and current doses another 8 wks and get retested. What was your weight when you started? Are you using slin, gh, peptides, to hold weight? If you are not bridging and cannot get those levels up you can kiss your gains good bye within another 3 months.
What other compounds were used during the 2 yrs, what doses?

 

[wasp]

there is an h in chrome

 

[Jdub]

Bro, the same thing happened to me. It was about 10 years ago and I was your age. After 8 months or so, I finally went to an endocrinologist but literally- that same 4 week period my body started recovering on it's own. My levels were at 22 and got up to 400 something.

He said to take 50mg of clomid every day. Also, I noticed when ever I worked out or should I say did any exercise my test levels increased for a few days.

You will recover... I have since learned other methods on the boards. Follow the advice here.

 

[wasp]

why do endos rec clomid over nolva most of the time when i've read so many bad sides with clomid

 

[Vitruvian_Man]

Well hate to be honest bro but your PCT was far from ideal. You have the realize that the goal of a PCT is to regain function of the HPTA; what many forget is that HCG is suppressive to the HPTA, and thus using it during one's PCT is actually counterproductive to the goal of hormonal-homeostasis.

In my opinion if you re-due a PCT you should see much better results; albeit, it will need to be much longer and better then your last one. This is what I would do for full recovery:

(weeks 1 - 2) HCG @ 500iu/ed
(weeks 1 - 2) Aromasin @ 12.5mg/ed
(weeks 3 - 6) Aromasin @ 12.5mg/eod
(weeks 3 - 8) Clomid @ 75/75/50/50/25/25
(weeks 3 - 8) Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20/10/10

This is a similar protocol to the one I used to regain full function after 9 months "on" cycle/suppressed. The use of HCG at the beginning to get the testes firing again is an effective method I've found, but one should use some exemstane while on the HCG just to control estrogen-sides.

BTW - aromasin (weeks 3-6) is optional; I just enjoy it, and find it to be a beneficial addition to the two SERMS being used.

Wait 1.5 months after you've discontinued the SERMS and then get bloodwork redone, from there you can assess if HRT is necessary.

Hope that helps..

-VM

 

[mike ross]

the above is pretty good, throw some heavy lifting in as well, heavy meaning power lifter type. sets of 2 to 4, max weight. It will help fire back up the normal responses in your body. next time you go on, make sure you use 250ius of hcg eod while on large doses for the whole cycle, you wont regret it.

 

[wasp]

Well hate to be honest bro but your PCT was far from ideal. You have the realize that the goal of a PCT is to regain function of the HPTA; what many forget is that HCG is suppressive to the HPTA, and thus using it during one's PCT is actually counterproductive to the goal of hormonal-homeostasis.

In my opinion if you re-due a PCT you should see much better results; albeit, it will need to be much longer and better then your last one. This is what I would do for full recovery:

(weeks 1 - 2) HCG @ 500iu/ed
(weeks 1 - 2) Aromasin @ 12.5mg/ed
(weeks 3 - 6) Aromasin @ 12.5mg/eod
(weeks 3 - 8) Clomid @ 75/75/50/50/25/25
(weeks 3 - 8) Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20/10/10

This is a similar protocol to the one I used to regain full function after 9 months "on" cycle/suppressed. The use of HCG at the beginning to get the testes firing again is an effective method I've found, but one should use some exemstane while on the HCG just to control estrogen-sides.

BTW - aromasin (weeks 3-6) is optional; I just enjoy it, and find it to be a beneficial addition to the two SERMS being used.

Wait 1.5 months after you've discontinued the SERMS and then get bloodwork redone, from there you can assess if HRT is necessary.

Hope that helps..

-VM

why nolva AND clomid

 

[candyman269]

interesting

 

[mike ross]

why nolva AND clomid

some studies from the 70s and 80s show a benefit when both are used post cycle, the clomid is used in a lesser dosage than normal. it all depends on the individual...Aromasin for pct is great though and you could def use that and clomid together

 

[candyman269]

I cycled test and tren a few times throughout last year and then we wanted to start to try to have kids. stopped one month before we started and used clo 50mgs a day and boom 1 month later here comes a baby. it might just be my super sperm though.

 

[wasp]

some studies from the 70s and 80s show a benefit when both are used post cycle, the clomid is used in a lesser dosage than normal. it all depends on the individual...Aromasin for pct is great though and you could def use that and clomid together

well, i opted for asin and nolva as id read nolva has less sides than clomid

 

[Vitruvian_Man]

why nolva AND clomid

Any injectable cycle that is 6+ weeks should consist of a minimum two SERMS.

It's a complete misconception that using 2 SERMS is pointless as the "receptors are being competed for" that's just absolute B.S. that's based on bro-science. Nolvadex and Clomid are similar compounds, but the pathways they effect are different.

For example, even a low dose of clomid (25mg) can raise testosterone levels by ~143%... and clomid works much much faster then nolvadex, although IMO tamoxifen citrate (nolva) is the far better SERM in the long run; but clomid definitely serves its purpose.

It doesn't matter which really - all the matters is that there is two, the synergy is needed.

(IE) You could use Toremifene + nolvadex, as many do because they can't handle clomid-sides.

It's not like there is only 1 SERM on the market.

IMO there is no question the OP should be using 2 if not 3 SERMS throughout the PCT, as he has admitted to being shutdown for 2 years now. Do you think that a tamoxifen only PCT would be suitable for recovery?? of course not.

-VM

 

[Vitruvian_Man]

I cycled test and tren a few times throughout last year and then we wanted to start to try to have kids. stopped one month before we started and used clo 50mgs a day and boom 1 month later here comes a baby. it might just be my super sperm though.

Umm just want to clarify.... Recovering full function of one's HPTA and raising one's sperm count are two completely different things.

Just because SERMS/HCG made your sperm count high does NOT mean your testosterone levels were at homeostasis.

Clomid @ 50mg/ed will produce boatloads of sperm in any male; that's why it's one of the most prescribed male fertility drug.

-VM

 

[Vitruvian_Man]

some studies from the 70s and 80s show a benefit when both are used post cycle, the clomid is used in a lesser dosage than normal. it all depends on the individual...Aromasin for pct is great though and you could def use that and clomid together

There are far newer studies which are much more revealing about SERMS effects/pathways nowadays.

The one's from the 70's/80's are one's that are often misinterpreted by the bodybuilding community. (IE) I don't know if you were around in the 90's but nolvadex wasn't around, and clomid only was considered the "optimal" PCT. We used to run doses like 300mg/ed clomid for a week and then drop to 100mg/ed for the rest.

^^ That "science" was based on studies that showed that the higher the dosage of clomid will correspond to higher testosterone levels. But what we didn't realize was that 50mg/ed of clomid is more then enough to use, and anything <100mg/ed = useless, and just gives more side effects.

 

[Newman]

Vitruvian, I really liked reading all your input. For a guy with such a low post count, your posts show plenty of quality despite the lack of quantity. I look forward to reading more in future...

 

[Vitruvian_Man]

Vitruvian, I really liked reading all your input. For a guy with such a low post count, your posts show plenty of quality despite the lack of quantity. I look forward to reading more in future...

Thanks bro - I'm no newbie to the game, I've just been on other boards for a while now.. Needed a change, lol..

I just never really post here... but again, thanks.

-VM :headbang:

 

[wasp]

well for the first 2 weeks all i have is asin and nolva, better than nothing, i had to get off, my crit was 52.5..........ill be getting some hcg and clomid.......little worried bout clomid sides, should i start at 50mg? i feel like crap now anyhow 2 weeks in,couldn't hurt i guess to do what your saying