bad news

Got Juice · Feb 25, 2006

a really good friend of mine just went into the doc a couple of days ago to get a heart checkup.. he basically wanted to check for any blockage in his arteries, etc. well they ran some test and said his heart is fine cardiovascular wise and their is no blockage but his heart has thickened up and cannot pump as much blood now as it should.. they told him his heart is comporable to a 50 year old who has had high blood pressure his whole life..needless to say my buddy is a little bummed out since he is only 27. btw, this was at one of the top hospitals in the country.. it told him to get a second opinion anyways..

any comments or related topics are def. welcome..

thanks,

Ashop · Feb 25, 2006

I would suggest second and third opinion in this case.

Jbomb · Feb 25, 2006

what do they mean by "thickened up".....the left ventricular wall?? All of our hearts are "thickened up". Definitely get other opinions, particularly from a cardiologist. Did they do a chest x-ray?

Tom · Feb 25, 2006

typical

that is typical of an athletic heart....his doc is off the mark on this one

tbolking · Feb 25, 2006

damn bro and he's only 27. thats a little nerve racking...you guys seem to be handling it well though

Got Juice · Feb 25, 2006

i dont know the details as i was not in the room and its just second hand from what he was told..

i do remember him saying a number of 5 which is supposedly what you heart is supposed to pump, and his is at about 3.5.. whatever that means, maybe some can decypher my morris code.

i think he's just going to lay off everything for a while, clean up the diet, start taking some BP medicine (his is borderline high) and try and head back in about 6 months and get another test ran.. im not to thrilled on how the doctor handled things with him personally...

later,

Jrflex10er · Feb 25, 2006

second opinion gotjuice....This is hard to believe....I will never go to one doc ever again...I will explore my sources because THEY have to earn my respect. That's their job.....3-4 even 5 opinions would hurt.

Diesel2323 · Feb 25, 2006

Got Juice, I will research this in the AM. Because I cant remember which I read it in, either Muscular Dev. or FLex. Stating there has been some studies showing the heart "returns to normal size" after coming off of juice.
But please dont quote me, as I need to check this reading. And I am not sure of the facts, on this.
Either way best of luck to your bro.

Fullybuilt · Feb 25, 2006

whats his cycle history? What age did he start, how long are cycles, what type of dosing. This may make sense if he has been on like 2+grams of gear since he was 16 and never went off, but other than that, i'd def get another opinion.

LMR · Feb 25, 2006

last i read,

the heart was a muscle and i would assume it would be induced in growth because of anabolic usage. As well as, return to normal after the cease of AAS usage. My opinion. I dont think that doctor knows this since most regular doctors are not aware of the side effects of what AAS administration and bodybuilding does to us.

Got Juice · Feb 25, 2006

ill talk to him today and find out the exact times, etc... but i want to say her started using around 20-21 and used until he was about 27-28.. the past year he hasnt taken anything because he has been trying to get some businesses started and that has taken up a lot of his time.. he was basically getting ready to get back to his original size and i think he was going in for a checkup to make sure everything was cool before he got started. he did use growth a for probably around 3 years off/on, but he hasnt used this within the past year either.. his cycles were pretty normal, 750-1000mg test, maybe some dbol, or deca thrown in , nothing outrageous... i think he did 1 or 2 shows and thats about all.

Magnum · Feb 25, 2006

Well, he's not a very good Dr if he didn't explain to him what the hell "thickened up" means? Tell him to find out what his "EJECTION FRACTION" is!! This tells how much blood his heart is pumping out with each beat, very important. Something tells me your buddy will be fine.

PassionateBB · Feb 25, 2006

As someone said, an enlarged heart is normal for most athletes. And aside from drug use, heavy lifting will increase the muscle of your heart. If I were your friend, I would not do any heavy lifting until he sees a specialist and gets a clean bill of health. My own enlarged heart turned into heart failure. Your friend doesn't want to go through that.

Got Juice · Feb 25, 2006

magnum, im sorry i didnt explain a little better.. the doc did explain to my buddy, but it was second hand information that i heard so my friend does not remember specifically what he said.. he's definitely going to go back for a second opinion....

you asked about how much his heart is pumping, apparently the doctor mentioned something about rating of 5 which is normal and his is 3.5, again dont quote me on that.. ill get some more details from my buddy.

thanks again for all the comments,

Magnum · Feb 25, 2006

Got Juice said:
magnum, im sorry i didnt explain a little better.. the doc did explain to my buddy, but it was second hand information that i heard so my friend does not remember specifically what he said.. he's definitely going to go back for a second opinion....

you asked about how much his heart is pumping, apparently the doctor mentioned something about rating of 5 which is normal and his is 3.5, again dont quote me on that.. ill get some more details from my buddy.

thanks again for all the comments,

OK. He still needs to find out what his ejection fraction is. It goes by percentages. Don't quote me but I think 60% is normal. Hope everything goes good.

Godless · Feb 25, 2006

You are giving a basic description of LVH, or left ventricular hypertrophy

heres a bit of info:

Left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) is an enlargement of the left pumping chamber of the heart and may be due to several different things. The most common cause is high blood pressure. Other causes are due to exercise (athletic hypertrophy) and congenital (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy or HOCM).

The diagnosis of LVH is usually made by echocardiogram. The walls of the ventricle can be measured and a thickness of greater than 1.5 cm is considered enlarged. Athletic hypertrophy is usually less than this thickness and will return to normal size with cessation of the activity. HOCM may be diagnosed in the absence of other causes of LVH and with the presence of a family history.

The treatment of LVH depends on the cause. Hypertensive LVH is treated by controlling the blood pressure. Some antihypertensive drugs may cause LVH to regress but this is controversial. Athletic hypertrophy does not require treatment. HOCM is a rare condition that should be followed by a cardiologist with expertise in this area. It may require medical or surgical management.

Long term prognosis of LVH is good. There is an increased propensity to heart failure (see previous questions on heart failure) so a correct diagnosis and proper treatment is essential to decrease this risk.

BitsOBrawn · Feb 25, 2006

That doctor is a moron.

To tell some 27 year old who is obviously a heavy weightlifter and athlete that he has the heart of a 50 year old is completely unprofessional and irresponsible. What your friend needs to have if this isn't what he has had is called a Blood Pool Imaging. This includes ejection fraction etc. Ejection fraction normals are between 55-65%. An enlarged left ventricle and cardiac hypertrophy are some of the reasons why his heart would have a low ejection fraction. But I guarantee your friend does not have the heart of a fucking 50 year old. That's rediculous. And one test is not going to tell the doctor everything. I would tell your friend to stay off anabolics for a while and go back for a repeat test.

MikeS · Feb 25, 2006

Hey GJ

Tom said:
that is typical of an athletic heart....his doc is off the mark on this one

Simple but correct. Go to a Dr that knows something...

Dad · Feb 26, 2006

Good info, Godless, and probably the case here, though one would have to know ALL the specifics of this individual's case.

All you people calling the doc a moron, etc. simply display your own ignorance about medcicne, cardiology, and ventricular hypertrophy.

A second opinion is always worth getting, but unlikley to change either the diagnosis or prognosis - this isn't a real mysterious stiuation.

BitsOBrawn · Feb 26, 2006

Dad said:
Good info, Godless, and probably the case here, though one would have to know ALL the specifics of this individual's case.

All you people calling the doc a moron, etc. simply display your own ignorance about medcicne, cardiology, and ventricular hypertrophy.

A second opinion is always worth getting, but unlikley to change either the diagnosis or prognosis - this isn't a real mysterious stiuation.

Ummm do you work in the medical field around doctors all day? I do and like every profession there are really bad ones and really good ones. A doctor telling a young kid he has the heart of a 50 year old is ignorant. The etiology of pathological LVH and cardiac hypertrophy is very different than athletes heart and the end result is very different too. Like I said one is a pathological response the other a physiological adaptation. The doctor should have explained this to the kid in greater detail and done further tests before making remarks like that.