bodyfat vs muscle building

[tkav1980]

I'd like to get opinions on this. everyone would like to look contest ready all year but i believe to build serious amounts of muscle in the shortest period of time that isn't really reasonable. everyone is going to have a certain genetic limit to the amount of muscle thay can hold at a given bodyfat %, when that is kept verry low. so what do you think is a reasonable % of bodyfat to hold, or should i say the optimal for muscle building?

probably should have origionally put this in my post but im talking reasonable percentages here 8-9% vs 11-14% outline of abs still visible vs absolutely shredded. sorry if anyone mis understood.

 

[donjoy]

I think this is a tough one to gauge. I don't use calipers, but rather the mirror as my reference point.

There are times when I find myself really grinding it out in the gym and I start to let myself eat a little bit more than usual. Muscle will slowly start to pack on, but generally I will notice some fat as well. Once my abs start to lose detail I back it down and become more strict with the diet. Lifts at that point might become a little stagnant or even will be less than usual. For me it really is about keeping detail in my stomach.

I guess you could say a 4 pack is the minimum for me. It sort of follows Phil's eat when you are hungry concept except there are times when my eyes are hungry (not my stomach), and I need to back it down a bit.

This approach allows me to stay lean enough all year to where I feel comfortable taking my shirt off, but also gives me periods when I can try to add muscle without getting too sloppy.

I should also note that I never let myself get too big (muscle or bodyfat) to the point of where I have trouble jogging a couple miles.

This might not have been the answer you were looking for tkav, but for some reason I just always go by the mirror and the "feel" in order to stay lean enough.

 

[Phidias]

to build serious amounts of muscle in the shortest period of time

That's PRECISELY why most guys end up fat... why do you want to force things? Just let your body do its thing with REASONABLE amounts of everything... foods, lenght and intensity of workouts, supp doses, etc... if you have to gain muscle (meaning if your genetics allow it), you will, don't worry. Just in time... and it won't take long if nature has been kind with you, trust me.

 

[Gunsmith]

and what would you say ones bodyfat is when you have a "4 pack"? I'm sure that it varys from person to person but I've heard some say that to see a "six pack" you need to be at most 8-9% but I see some people that are pretty damn soft everywhere very little striation and such but can see all 6 abs

 

[tkav1980]

fixed origional post seems to be a bit of a misunderstand in my questioning.

 

[chris250]

Everyone is different on this..I mean there are those would could really bulk up over 50-60lbs over contest weight and put on some good amount of muscle..then there are those who do that and lose muscle coming down to contest weight..I have done both ways, and yeah, I do carry more muscle at 280ish..But coming down to 225lbs, for contest and not really seeing any new muscle is very fustrating...So now, I allow myself to get up to maybe 250-255lbs, and come down much slower and I notice coming in with more fullness, maybe touch of muscle here or there...Kinda like growing into a show...that for me seems to work better...

chris

 

[tkav1980]

personally i feel that carrying alittle extra fat isnt so bad as long as your not having to drop 30lbs going into the season. im 221 right now i can see the top 4 abs. my bodyfat hasnt changed from my avitar which is where im thinking in terms of look when i say reasonable bodyfat for building muscle the fastest.

 

[donjoy]

and what would you say ones bodyfat is when you have a "4 pack"? I'm sure that it varys from person to person but I've heard some say that to see a "six pack" you need to be at most 8-9% but I see some people that are pretty damn soft everywhere very little striation and such but can see all 6 abs

It's tough to say, I really don't ever get the bf tested so I have no reference point for what my "4 pack" is versus when I have my "6 pack".

For me at least, when I have my 4 pack I have prominent veins in my biceps, triceps and forearms. However I am usually pretty veiny to begin with.

Once the 6 pack comes in. Noticeable chest & delt striations. However even at that point my lower back still has a fair amount of love handle fat. That is the last to go for me, I am not sure how lean I would have to get in order to make that go away.

haha sorry if I digressed a bit here from what tkav was getting at.

Basically in order for me to gain any substantial muscle I usually have to be eating to the point that keeps me in that 4 pack range. I look better than most, but I am not what people would call cut. At that point I can stay lean enough but still notice increases in lifts and such.

It is a very slow process for me with what I would call very slight ups and downs over a long period of time which eventually results in a net gain. Nothing is drastic and like Phidias is saying, keeping it slow keeps you from getting fat.

 

[Dave_19]

I'd like to get opinions on this. everyone would like to look contest ready all year but i believe to build serious amounts of muscle in the shortest period of time that isn't really reasonable. everyone is going to have a certain genetic limit to the amount of muscle thay can hold at a given bodyfat %, when that is kept verry low. so what do you think is a reasonable % of bodyfat to hold, or should i say the optimal for muscle building?

probably should have origionally put this in my post but im talking reasonable percentages here 8-9% vs 11-14% outline of abs still visible vs absolutely shredded. sorry if anyone mis understood.

this is VERY Dependant on the Individual, and what they are doing. I can build muscle & strength at 7% body fat all year, but only under the right circumstances.

 

[Thewhite9t]

Well everyone is different, but I have a 6pack at 14%. It isn't great, but it's definately there. I just tend to hold fat on my ass/hams/pecs and the like.

But I don't really worry about bodyfat too much, I just try to eat clean and do my thing. I've found that it takes a year or so of bulking to really bring me to a place I'm not comfortable in terms of bodyfat.

I'm not a serious competitor or anything though.

 

[tkav1980]

i see shelby looking and would love to get his view on this.

 

[Pekkerwood]

TKav:

I used to regularly hit he 280, 290 mark, but the love handles, double chin, the whole nine. Big? Yes, but very unhealthy. I just did not know any better. I think I sacrificed my health and didn't make any gains I could not have made growing leaner. Taking 4 months to bulk up and another three to cut down versus 7 of sustained growth. It was just wrong for me.

For health reasons alone I would not want to create any new fat cells in my body other than what I already had if I could help it.

 

[Gunsmith]

well ive got at least 7 months to get ready for any shows i plan on doing , i plan to hire a trainer first of September and try to drop bodyfat and gain some muscle , mostly drop bodyfat though. Im sure thatits possible to gain plenty of muscle and maintain a very respectable body fat% if your diet is right , granted youmight not pack ontons of size but what you get should be quality

 

[Shelby]

i see shelby looking and would love to get his view on this.

It's individual, and also context-dependent.

If someone is naturally "endomorphic" then struggling to stay lean while gaining size is not going to work very well.

But if you're a competitive athlete, any fat you put on must eventually come off... so if you're competing again in less than a year, that will also play a role in how lean you should stay.

Also playing a role is how comfortable you feel at a given bodyfat. If you feel like death at under 8%, then obviously trying to stay there is not conducive to a happy bodybuilding career. By the same token if you feel like a mess at over 13%, then don't go there.

Obviously health also plays a role.

Bottom line... find what works for you, both mentally and physically.

 

[bigguns078]

this is VERY Dependant on the Individual, and what they are doing. I can build muscle & strength at 7% body fat all year, but only under the right circumstances.

This is my priority and goal under Dave's guidance.. Staying lean and putting on visible muscle.. I will be starting soon and will be charting my progress...

 

[Lou]

The leaner you can stay, the better. I dont expect growing all year below the 10% mark, but i think the top would be 13%. Higher bodyfat means more estrogen and less insulin sensitivity. You CAN definately grow lean (not ripped) knowing how to manipulate your nutrition (ie. carb cycling).

 

[donjoy]

Higher bodyfat means more estrogen and less insulin sensitivity.

That is actually a really good point I didn't think of at all. The "fat" offseason approach would be very counterproductive. Especially for someone who is not using AAS or ancillaries.

 

[weight]

The leaner you can stay, the better. I dont expect growing all year below the 10% mark, but i think the top would be 13%. Higher bodyfat means more estrogen and less insulin sensitivity. You CAN definately grow lean (not ripped) knowing how to manipulate your nutrition (ie. carb cycling).

where do you get your info on this about higher estro and less senstivity?

 

[tkav1980]

The leaner you can stay, the better. I dont expect growing all year below the 10% mark, but i think the top would be 13%. Higher bodyfat means more estrogen and less insulin sensitivity. You CAN definately grow lean (not ripped) knowing how to manipulate your nutrition (ie. carb cycling).

interresting, but isnt some estro. necessary for muscle building?

 

[Lou]

interresting, but isnt some estro. necessary for muscle building?