Border Patrol testing?

[Thebigone]

Buddy of mine wants to join the BP in a month or so, well get started on it I guess. Anyway he ran a test/deca cycle a few months back and wanted to know if the BP does urine or blood tests which im sure they do but if so do they test for gear?

 

[Ehren]

No, they don't or didn't used to. If they did, the Deca would show up.

Your buddy's problem is that unlike other employers, LE administers a polygraph, and if he lies, he will fail, for sure. Tell him to be perfectly honest with what he's done and he'll have a much better chance. They are not looking for choir boys, just honest cops without a drug problem.

That said...LE generally likes to have year of clean living before accepting a candidate. Which means that by the time he fills out his initial paperwork he should have NOT smoked weed, done any other rec drugs, got drunk too many times, or used steroids in the past year.

Good luck!

 

[Thebigone]

This is for LE or border patrol? I didnt know there was a polygraph for BP.

 

[gonenatty]

Border Patrol

is an agency of Law Enforcement just like FBI, DEA, ATF, etc.. However, after looking at the Border Patrols website for requirments, it did not state a polygraph was required. Usually its a part of the "extensive background investigation" so it still may occur during the hiring process. Like stated above, he should be honest about it. Bc if they do Poly him, theres no trick or cheat method to avoid how your body reacts during lying. Especially now a days, they use a voice stress analyzer which is more accurate then the polygraph and detects frequency's in the voice that drop off when answering what the body knows is a lie. Good luck to him

 

[ronnieron]

while it is not ordinary, it is possible to beat a lie detector test. Pathalogical liars beat the test with regularity.

 

[mslmn]

Actually i know someone who did pass the polygraph some years back, to join police force. He was far from being a goody too shoe, but he found a way to beat it.

 

[malcom young]

Its not a lie if you believe it.

George Costanza

 

[Thebigone]

Thanks guys i'll let him know. So as far as you know they dont test aas? I think they only do a urine test and even if he did do deca which is testable up to like 10months after stoping thats only through blood right?

 

[HardKnox]

Sorry to bump this up but I still can't believe how naive some people are in regards to AAS testing.

First off, NO, AAS isn't just detected in blood, they can be and are detected through the urine. I don't know why people think this but the metabolites are detectable in the urine, especially deca with it being detectable for up to 12 to 18 months.

Second of all, most Law Enforcement agencies are not going to forgive your usage of Schedule III controlled substance if you wait a year. The vast majority of agencies would 'consider' an applicant after a five year period of being clean, but we're talking a federal agency, i.e, the Border Patrol. This is from their website:

"Drug Testing: All applicants for this position will be required to submit to urinalysis to screen for illegal drug use prior to appointment. This position is designated for testing for illegal drug use; incumbents are subject to random testing"

Keep in mind this is a Federal Agency and the chances that they will test for AAS are much higher than what an average municipality or county agency would do.

As far as being honest, sure, be honest and they will either DQ your friend permanently or temporarily suspend him from the process for a period of years. Most agencies have a list of drugs and the amount of time each one disqualifies the applicant for, and AAS may or may not be a permanent disqualifier but to admit it straight out, I can guarantee that a Federal Agency is not going to say, oh well, thanks for bein' honest, sure, welcome aboard. You have to remember, these folks deal with contraband being smuggled into the country and that includes AAS and a host of other 'illegal' substances and to readily admit you just recently did a cycle would be a possible integrity issue.

 

[Scott21]

Last I remember Border patrol doesn't polygraph, unless they suspect something. Federal agencies do not like steroid users, on a federal level steroids are a felony, and they usually want 10 years clean from felony drugs, and one year clean from misd. drugs ... i.e. Marijuana. That being said, theres tons of L.E. who use steroids and got in, most weren't truthful in the background investigation either. Good luck.

 

[lexxdiamons]

Sorry to bump this up but I still can't believe how naive some people are in regards to AAS testing.

First off, NO, AAS isn't just detected in blood, they can be and are detected through the urine. I don't know why people think this but the metabolites are detectable in the urine, especially deca with it being detectable for up to 12 to 18 months.

Second of all, most Law Enforcement agencies are not going to forgive your usage of Schedule III controlled substance if you wait a year. The vast majority of agencies would 'consider' an applicant after a five year period of being clean, but we're talking a federal agency, i.e, the Border Patrol. This is from their website:

"Drug Testing: All applicants for this position will be required to submit to urinalysis to screen for illegal drug use prior to appointment. This position is designated for testing for illegal drug use; incumbents are subject to random testing"

Keep in mind this is a Federal Agency and the chances that they will test for AAS are much higher than what an average municipality or county agency would do.

As far as being honest, sure, be honest and they will either DQ your friend permanently or temporarily suspend him from the process for a period of years. Most agencies have a list of drugs and the amount of time each one disqualifies the applicant for, and AAS may or may not be a permanent disqualifier but to admit it straight out, I can guarantee that a Federal Agency is not going to say, oh well, thanks for bein' honest, sure, welcome aboard. You have to remember, these folks deal with contraband being smuggled into the country and that includes AAS and a host of other 'illegal' substances and to readily admit you just recently did a cycle would be a possible integrity issue.

Finally....Someone with common sense. NEVER admit to drug use, especially for a federal law enforcement job, I mean....COME ON!!! Research cleaning out your urine, learn how to beat the lie detector (there are plenty of effective methods I'm just to lazy to add links to them), and get the damn job. You admit to theese people that youre injecting yourself with a controlled substance and youre DONE.

 

[Thebigone]

wow i thought urine was only for short term stuff like orals,etc.. I cant belive they can detect deca for up to 12months from your urine, thats nuts. I'll let him know. Anyone know a good urine detox? Im presuming he cant use the fake piss b/c they probably watch you. But ive heard of aas detox but didnt know how true it was. any advice appreciated. This kid just got out of rehab for prescription drugs and wants to turn his life around but I got a feeling he's not gonna pass what they expect.

 

[HardKnox]

Look man, I'm gonna be honest with you, if he just got out of rehab (assuming it may have been court ordered?) especially for pills, he will NOT pass the background investigation as a federal background is about as extensive and as invading as one could possibly be. They dig up EVERYTHING and he's just not going to cut it. Trying to turn ones life around is fine, but you can't just jump into LE because you're trying to do better for yourself.

As far as the urine test goes, no, it's not for orals, everything you take from vitamins to injectable drugs can be picked up in the urine with GC/MS testing.

 

[lexxdiamons]

Look man, I'm gonna be honest with you, if he just got out of rehab (assuming it may have been court ordered?) especially for pills, he will NOT pass the background investigation as a federal background is about as extensive and as invading as one could possibly be. They dig up EVERYTHING and he's just not going to cut it. Trying to turn ones life around is fine, but you can't just jump into LE because you're trying to do better for yourself.

As far as the urine test goes, no, it's not for orals, everything you take from vitamins to injectable drugs can be picked up in the urine with GC/MS testing.

Wow....lets all gather ourselves here. I know people who have been through the border patrol as well as the ICE background investigation. As long as the rehab was not court ordered your friend should be fine. How extensive do you think the investigation is? They run your name through whatever databases they have for arrests, warrants and convictions. They also run a credit search and give you a drug test. As far as the drug test goes, as long as its urine, your fine. Just do some research about flushing out your system with water, and then taking the proper supplements to bring your urine back to acceptable levels. Most of what they have and can use against you is what you willingly divulge to them in good faith. People willingly divulge incriminating evidence because they fear lie detectors, and believe that honesty is the best policy, its not. Tell your buddy to not divulge any drug use other then the occasional beer with his buddies, and trying marijuana once or twice in high school. Dont give them ammo or more importantly a reason to disqualify you.

 

[cjjrwe]

Actually HardKnox is more on point about this. Yes they do polygraph, usually randomly but it is becoming the norm, if you have an derogatory information in your background check or self-admitted, you can count on getting polygraphed. They very specifically ask about drug and alcohol use, they are not immediately disqualifying on paper, however, in practice you are usually done...far too many "clean" qualified candidates. As far as the background check, it is a national agency check (FBI/DOJ), local files check (they will contact all the police jurisdictions where you have lived), a credit check, and they may conduct interviews of your references, old neighbors, etc. I applied for a job with a state PD and they actually interviewed my wife too as part of the process, but unfortunately is was too much of a pay cut from federal to state so I did not take the job.

 

[cjjrwe]

From USAJOBS website...

Background Security Investigation: Prior to appointment, tentative selectees must undergo and satisfactorily complete a background investigation, which includes but is not limited to a Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) name and fingerprint check and a 10-year background investigation. As part of the investigation you will be asked to complete and submit a security questionnaire (SF-86). The questionnaire will ask you questions regarding education, residences, past and current employers, police records, financial situation, drug and alcohol use, etc. The background investigation will consist of, among other things, a personal interview, a check for arrest records, a credit check, and interviews of employers and personal references. A history of problems in any of these areas may result in your disqualification for this position. Keep in mind that because we have a law enforcement mission, we set a very high standard for our employees. Appointment to this position may require the successful completion of a polygraph examination.

 

[Scott21]

Wow....lets all gather ourselves here. I know people who have been through the border patrol as well as the ICE background investigation. As long as the rehab was not court ordered your friend should be fine. How extensive do you think the investigation is? They run your name through whatever databases they have for arrests, warrants and convictions. They also run a credit search and give you a drug test. As far as the drug test goes, as long as its urine, your fine. Just do some research about flushing out your system with water, and then taking the proper supplements to bring your urine back to acceptable levels. Most of what they have and can use against you is what you willingly divulge to them in good faith. People willingly divulge incriminating evidence because they fear lie detectors, and believe that honesty is the best policy, its not. Tell your buddy to not divulge any drug use other then the occasional beer with his buddies, and trying marijuana once or twice in high school. Dont give them ammo or more importantly a reason to disqualify you.

Believe it or not, I checked myself into a rehab about ten years ago. I ran my credit six months, just to look at it. Guess what? The rehab reported my adress at that time on my credit report. If I ever went for a job in L.E. they would probably search that adress up which shows on my credit report as a prior resident (even though it was 10 years ago and for two months), and find out it was a a rehabilitation center.


"So Mr. Scott21 you said you never tried illegal drugs huh?.... So please explain to us why we conducted our Experian/Transunion credit report it appears on this date your place of residents comes back to a drug rehab center? BTW, we sent a background investigator there and they say on your file you admitted to checking yourself there because you were doing such and such drug...And upon further investigation paper work shows you failed a random urine analysis there six weeks into your stay. Can you please explain this to us??"


Just saying, somethings the smallest things you have may leave a trail, becareful.

 

[lexxdiamons]

Believe it or not, I checked myself into a rehab about ten years ago. I ran my credit six months, just to look at it. Guess what? The rehab reported my adress at that time on my credit report. If I ever went for a job in L.E. they would probably search that adress up which shows on my credit report as a prior resident (even though it was 10 years ago and for two months), and find out it was a a rehabilitation center.


"So Mr. Scott21 you said you never tried illegal drugs huh?.... So please explain to us why we conducted our Experian/Transunion credit report it appears on this date your place of residents comes back to a drug rehab center? BTW, we sent a background investigator there and they say on your file you admitted to checking yourself there because you were doing such and such drug...And upon further investigation paper work shows you failed a random urine analysis there six weeks into your stay. Can you please explain this to us??"


Just saying, somethings the smallest things you have may leave a trail, becareful.

You know what Scott, you make a somewhat fair point, but how about if the rehab facility was paid in cash? How about the rehab facility takes confidentiality seriously and bills you under an innocuous name? "BTW, we sent a background investigator there and they say on your file you admitted to checking yourself there because you were doing such and such drug...And upon further investigation paper work shows you failed a random urine analysis there six weeks into your stay. " Again, even if this scenario would come up, I'm pretty sure there would have to be some level of confidentiality between the center and client. I'm just saying, a few months out of rehab for a pill addiction and recent steroid use is probably grounds for your ass to get rejected. You don't tell them shit like that. Come on guys.....a background investigation? What do you think?, there going to send a team of fbi investigators into the field to interview your high school sweetheart and principal? Principal: "Oh that lexxdiamons? check his high school permanent record.....we caught him smoking dope in the bathroom in tenth grade!"
High School Sweetheart: Who lexxdiamons?, yes mister fbi investigator...I remember senior year....he gained twenty pounds of muscle and couldn't get a hard on.....he admitted he was shooting deca!!!!!! steroids !!!!

Last but not least....THE LIE DETECTOR IS BULLSHITT!!!!! heres some links:

Cheat a Polygraph Test (Lie Detector - wikiHow)

polygraph - lie detector - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

And one of my favorites:
Learn How to Pass (or Beat) a Polygraph Test | AntiPolygraph.org

As long as your friend has half a brain and does his research and does what he is supposed to and dosent get fucked with a blood or hair drug test that is searching for anabolic steroids (highly unlikely) he should be fine. If not, at least he should not go in there readily handing over the information for his own dismissal.

 

[Scott21]

You know what Scott, you make a somewhat fair point, but how about if the rehab facility was paid in cash? How about the rehab facility takes confidentiality seriously and bills you under an innocuous name? "BTW, we sent a background investigator there and they say on your file you admitted to checking yourself there because you were doing such and such drug...And upon further investigation paper work shows you failed a random urine analysis there six weeks into your stay. " Again, even if this scenario would come up, I'm pretty sure there would have to be some level of confidentiality between the center and client. I'm just saying, a few months out of rehab for a pill addiction and recent steroid use is probably grounds for your ass to get rejected. You don't tell them shit like that. Come on guys.....a background investigation? What do you think?, there going to send a team of fbi investigators into the field to interview your high school sweetheart and principal? Principal: "Oh that lexxdiamons? check his high school permanent record.....we caught him smoking dope in the bathroom in tenth grade!"
High School Sweetheart: Who lexxdiamons?, yes mister fbi investigator...I remember senior year....he gained twenty pounds of muscle and couldn't get a hard on.....he admitted he was shooting deca!!!!!! steroids !!!!

Last but not least....THE LIE DETECTOR IS BULLSHITT!!!!! heres some links:

Cheat a Polygraph Test (Lie Detector - wikiHow)

polygraph - lie detector - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

And one of my favorites:
Learn How to Pass (or Beat) a Polygraph Test | AntiPolygraph.org

As long as your friend has half a brain and does his research and does what he is supposed to and dosent get fucked with a blood or hair drug test that is searching for anabolic steroids (highly unlikely) he should be fine. If not, at least he should not go in there readily handing over the information for his own dismissal.

1. What if I told you it was paid in cash? What if I told you I didn't have a fake ID on me when I checked in and had to use my real one? When if I told you when you sign a background check for law enforcement everything is fair game and you release everyone of ANY liability (exceptions somethings that may fall under the welfare and institution code i.e. juvenile offenses that were expunged)?

Point is if you have left a track they can find it. Imagine they interview your ex. co-worker that you once told in confidentiality that you used such and such one time? How about an ex. revengeful girlfriend?


I'm not debating whether a polygraph exam can or can't be beat, I'm just saying it only plays a role in the whole process.


Also most agencies will frown upon steroid users and you will be banned for life, you are simply now looked upon as a "liability"! Also many agencies have a zero policy for any illegal drug administered via injections, especially if done after the Anabolic Control Act. So yes your best bet would be never to admit.

 

[lexxdiamons]

Scott21
"Also most agencies will frown upon steroid users and you will be banned for life, you are simply now looked upon as a "liability"! Also many agencies have a zero policy for any illegal drug administered via injections, especially if done after the Anabolic Control Act. So yes your best bet would be never to admit."

Exactly, thats the main point that I'm trying to make. Do not admit any "hard care" prior drug use. If they "catch you" through a drug test or the rehab scenario you laid out then you're screwed. The previous posters are making it seem like its ridiculous for this kid to even attempt to enter the process with a history of drug use and I'm trying to tell him its not. Just be smart. Don't sink your own ship. By the way, there is a flip side to the background investigation.....an investigator that dose not really follow up very well a whole investigation department that has been decimated by budget cuts. Which dont be too shocked but with state and federal budget cuts, the latter is much more likely then you think.