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BP Meds possibly linked to kidney damage

thats the general mindset now days. Every Time at work I had a jammed finger, sprain, and just needed to go get x-rays they made sure to issue me pain meds. Jesus Christ, I told them ill pass. When I got my knee surgery they gave me a big script for some hard core pain meds, I told them id pass, not interested in getting hooked on that stuff. Same thin for every minor gym ache and pain I had to go to a primary care to get a script for PT, they issued me pain meds when I was there just to get a referral for a PT to actually address the issue.
 
Interesting that this subject just popped up because I was just hospitalized about a week ago for acute kidney failure. The docs blamed it on some of the meds I've been taking for years, including valsartan, atorvastatin, HCTZ, and baclofen (for back pain). They made me drop those and added in amlodipine, B1, COQ10 and folic acid. So now my kidney functions are normal, although they were about to put me on dialysis. Make sure you have kidney work-ups if you are taking any of these older drugs. It was quite a scary situation.

I would also note that as part of my kidney failure was excessive potassium and a deficient of magnesium (electroyte imbalance),

Can’t help but wonder of it was was the K+ and the Baclofen vs the ARB’s

“Baclofen, a commonly prescribed muscle relaxant, is primarily excreted via the kidneys; toxicity is a potentially serious adverse outcome in patients with decreased kidney function”.

This stuff does not sound kidney friendly.
 
Can’t help but wonder of it was was the K+ and the Baclofen vs the ARB’s

“Baclofen, a commonly prescribed muscle relaxant, is primarily excreted via the kidneys; toxicity is a potentially serious adverse outcome in patients with decreased kidney function”.

This stuff does not sound kidney friendly.
Do you think it could have been a combination of all the meds? Or does it have to be one in isolation? Do you think I just pulled those contraindications on ARBs out of my ass? Do you suppose his doctors have an understanding of the harms that these meds pose, without any prejudice based on the words of their favorite BB gurus? These can all be rhetorical questions if you so choose.
 
My man... There's multiply studies on ARBs showing the rate of adverse events is the same as in the placebo group or even lower. Yet you act like ARBs and ACEIs are the devil. There's even a study for Telmisartan showing exactly that with double the dose (160mg) than what is generally prescribed (80mg).
It is general consense that this drug Class (ARBs and ACEIs) are known for showing the least side effects of all ever invented bp meds.
 
thats the issue with so many guys, even non-bodybuilders.
everything a doc prescribes has to be good to go according to their "minds".
I am taking high dosed nebivolol, torasemid, entresto, eplerenone and jardiance due to my heart condition.
I often talk to my mum or colleagues that i have headaches when the weather changes and guess what all tell me (although they know i already take a shitload of meds)
"pop 2 ibuprofen, then you are good to go again"
Hell no. I havent taken a single pain med since im on my heart medication since i know everything in addition puts more strain on my organs..
Youre back on entresto again? I was thinking you got off of it. Thats one drug I wont take. Do you feel like it has helped you any? I tried it once for 2 months and felt nothing.
 
My man... There's multiply studies on ARBs showing the rate of adverse events is the same as in the placebo group or even lower. Yet you act like ARBs and ACEIs are the devil. There's even a study for Telmisartan showing exactly that with double the dose (160mg) than what is generally prescribed (80mg).
It is general consense that this drug Class (ARBs and ACEIs) are known for showing the least side effects of all ever invented bp meds.
"My man" I do not think these drugs are "the deeeeeeevillllll" at all. I think it's bad to promote them for healthy men as a prophylactic because there are risks that also should be considered:

Please refer to:

American Society of Health-System Pharmacists 2014; Drug Information 2014. Bethesda, MD. 2014, p. 2073:

"Symptomatic hypotension may occur in patients with an activated renin-angiotensin system (e.g., patients with volume or salt depletion secondary to salt restriction or prolonged diuretic therapy)...

"Because the RAAS appears to contribute substantially to maintenance of glomerular filtration in patients with congestive heart failure in whom renal perfusion is severely compromised, renal function may deteriorate markedly (e.g., renal failure) in these patients during therapy with an angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitor or angiotensin II receptor antagonist (e.g., telmisartan)...

"Renal artery stenosis also is a risk factor for renal impairment during therapy with drugs that inhibit the RAA system. Although reports received to date have involved patients treated with ACE inhibitors, this adverse effect also would be expected to occur when drugs with similar pharmacologic activity (e.g., angiotensin II receptor antagonists) are used in a similar manner."

LiverTox (NIH):
Telmisartan has been associated with a low rate of serum aminotransferase elevations (Likelihood score: E* (Unproved but suspected rare cause of clinically apparent liver injury).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/n/livertox/Telmisartan/


NIH; DailyMed. Current Medication Information for MIicardis (Telmisartan) Tablet (Revised: October 2012). Available from, as of October 9, 2014: https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=cfb9309f-e0df-4a55-9542-0e869fce05fb
"Hyperkalemia may occur in patients on angiotensin II receptor blockers (ARBs), particularly in patients with advanced renal impairment, heart failure, on renal replacement therapy, or on potassium-containing supplements, diuretics, salt substitutes or other drugs that increase potassium levels. Consider periodic determinations of serum electrolytes to detect possible electrolyte imbalances..."

Anyone presenting these drugs as risk-free PPARgamma (lulz) modulators and great for fluid retention (oh btw they're blood pressure and diabetic nephropathy meds) is, frankly, dangerous.
 
Did this not show up on routine bloodwork? Why did you let it go unaddressed?
No, this is not necessarily going to show up on "routine" blood work unless specifically tested for (I believe) esp. electrolytes. I get one standard physical/year, with all the general work-ups. I think creatine is on there but my last physical was actually over a year ago because of a scheduling screw-up. No I don't get monthly tests and nobody else does to my knowledge.

I know its easy to jump on things like this because everybody has to find a fault. Sometimes there is no fault and things just happen after certain periods of time. I wasn't looking for anything here other than to remind guys taking things, especially for a long period of time, to be more aware of what they are taking and asking their doc about newer, safer alternatives.
 
Glad your better. Not surprised you had kidney issues on that many meds In addition to aas. Was it one doc who had you on all these? Did they ever have you take regular blood work doing that much stuff? I'd consider possibly talking to a lawyer.

I often wonder when we hear of aas users who have kidney issues and it gets blamed on aas, if we had data on who is taking prescription drugs in addition to aas is this the real culprit.

I think anyone should try and limit the amount of pharmaceuticals they take, but especially aas users and those who really push the scale and dosages.
These meds were primarily prescribed by one dr. (now retired) over a period of probably 20 years. Baclofen (and tramadol) were prescribed by a pain specialist.

I'm not sue-happy and IMHO lawyers don't need to be involve in life circumstances like this. Sometimes sh!t happens.
 
Interesting that this subject just popped up because I was just hospitalized about a week ago for acute kidney failure. The docs blamed it on some of the meds I've been taking for years, including valsartan, atorvastatin, HCTZ, and baclofen (for back pain). They made me drop those and added in amlodipine, B1, COQ10 and folic acid. So now my kidney functions are normal, although they were about to put me on dialysis. Make sure you have kidney work-ups if you are taking any of these older drugs. It was quite
HCTZ will definitely screw up your kidneys
 
BP is a double edged sword ..Bp Too high kills kidneys Bp too low kills organs ..U need to get it in the sweet zone ...Bp meds are should be used to get u in that zone and not the low zone ......Celery seed works great for me .
 
Do you think it could have been a combination of all the meds? Or does it have to be one in isolation? Do you think I just pulled those contraindications on ARBs out of my ass? Do you suppose his doctors have an understanding of the harms that these meds pose, without any prejudice based on the words of their favorite BB gurus? These can all be rhetorical questions if you so choose.
Hence this is why they pulled me from ALL those meds. I had a follow-up blood test last Thurs. showing my kidney functions are now normal and 5 mg/day amlodipine gives me good bp. Of coursed I stopped the oral I was also taking, SD, 20-30 mg/day.
 
IMO kidney health is the primary factor to consider in the health and longevity paradigm, and the major catalyst and determinant of other systemic health functions and aging parameters on the medium and long run.
 
Youre back on entresto again? I was thinking you got off of it. Thats one drug I wont take. Do you feel like it has helped you any? I tried it once for 2 months and felt nothing.
yeah, the docs in hospital where i was recently insisted i try again although i did already 2 times and felt more sides than benefits.
 
yeah, the docs in hospital where i was recently insisted i try again although i did already 2 times and felt more sides than benefits.
They can be convincing! I only have one cardiologist pushing it on me and when I said no he respected that and just asks me again once a year if I want to try it. There was another med he wants me on too and I said no to that. I think it was originally for diabetes, but cant remember the name of it. Im already on a ton of drugs now. Too many. The main worry for me on that Entresto is how it can theoretically cause macular degeneration and alzheimers disease. No long term studies have been done on that because the drug is relatively new. The original study Paradigm they ran was cut short when they went to the FDA and asked for early approval. They were granted it. The pharm company has some good lobbyists. THe study the company is running is set up in a way too that almost guarantees success statistically. They are using an older BP med, not used much these days, alone to compare their new drug to. Entresto is 2 drugs in one pill and the ACE inhibitor is one that they have had for many many years.
 
While we're at it, what interventions would you ass to my list of putative beneficial things to do or take for kidney health:

Drinking a lot of water (Duh, but not really)

Microbiome optimization (Probiotics/Prebiotics/Dealing with SIBO and/or Candida)
Mitochondrial optimization (TULIP stack)
LLLT on Kidney area (only have anecdotal experiences, need more sources)
Sauna/Heat shock (nrf2)
Pielotax (Khavinson peptides, need more sources)
Systemic inflammation reduction (Curcumin/Fish oil/Resveratrol/...)
Limiting Growth factor and Anabolism (mtor)
Rapamycin (mtor)
Astragalus
Fibroblast Growth Factor 1 (FGF1)
Bardoxolone (nrf2)
Metformin
Nicotinamide Riboside (NAD+)
Telmisartan (and other ARBs)
Sulforaphane (nrf2)
GW-501516
Bromantane (NP-160/Actoprotectors)
Dasatinib/Imatinib/Nilotinib


Anyone got stuff to add?

Thanks!
 
While we're at it, what interventions would you ass to my list of putative beneficial things to do or take for kidney health:

Drinking a lot of water (Duh, but not really)

Microbiome optimization (Probiotics/Prebiotics/Dealing with SIBO and/or Candida)
Mitochondrial optimization (TULIP stack)
LLLT on Kidney area (only have anecdotal experiences, need more sources)
Sauna/Heat shock (nrf2)
Pielotax (Khavinson peptides, need more sources)
Systemic inflammation reduction (Curcumin/Fish oil/Resveratrol/...)
Limiting Growth factor and Anabolism (mtor)
Rapamycin (mtor)
Astragalus
Fibroblast Growth Factor 1 (FGF1)
Bardoxolone (nrf2)
Metformin
Nicotinamide Riboside (NAD+)
Telmisartan (and other ARBs)
Sulforaphane (nrf2)
GW-501516
Bromantane (NP-160/Actoprotectors)
Dasatinib/Imatinib/Nilotinib


Anyone got stuff to add?

Thanks!

Never even heard of Bromantane. Cool stuff. Also ran across this article.

 
While we're at it, what interventions would you ass to my list of putative beneficial things to do or take for kidney health:

Drinking a lot of water (Duh, but not really)

Microbiome optimization (Probiotics/Prebiotics/Dealing with SIBO and/or Candida)
Mitochondrial optimization (TULIP stack)
LLLT on Kidney area (only have anecdotal experiences, need more sources)
Sauna/Heat shock (nrf2)
Pielotax (Khavinson peptides, need more sources)
Systemic inflammation reduction (Curcumin/Fish oil/Resveratrol/...)
Limiting Growth factor and Anabolism (mtor)
Rapamycin (mtor)
Astragalus
Fibroblast Growth Factor 1 (FGF1)
Bardoxolone (nrf2)
Metformin
Nicotinamide Riboside (NAD+)
Telmisartan (and other ARBs)
Sulforaphane (nrf2)
GW-501516
Bromantane (NP-160/Actoprotectors)
Dasatinib/Imatinib/Nilotinib


Anyone got stuff to add?

Thanks!
How does GW-501516 help with kidney health?
 
The problem with kidney health, is that there's no reliable way to spot damage before your kidneys have started declining.
 

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