CAN SOMEONE ANSWER THIS? TYRONE??

PHIL HERNON · Feb 23, 2007

A MEMBER WHO ORDERED ECA SENT ME THIS. HE JUST RECIEVED THEM AND OPENED THE BOTTLE, NEVER USED IT.

Phil,
Yes the caps are yellow, and I'm sure people are loving them. But the fact still stands that I purchased ECA, or what I thought was ephedra and in fact is not. I know very well what ephedra smells, tastes and looks like because I worked at NVE pharm(makers of Stacker2) in the mid 90's. So, I'm not accusing you of selling fake shit. I'm saying the people whom you received it from are misleading you , me and everyone whom whats an ephedra based product. I just want what I paid for, not an ephedra alternative. I'm assuming that you never opened one of these caps to see if in fact it contains ephedra. As long as I've been around (not claiming to be a vet) I've only heard great things about you helping people. Now I'm here in a situation with you wanting to drop the ball on me!! Come on bro work with me.. It's not like it's my first day here. We should be able to come to a common ground and rectify this situation!

Diesel250 · Feb 23, 2007

sound like he wants some free sh**!

Kaiser · Feb 23, 2007

Now that's pretty funny, "they taste different".

AWN2004 · Feb 23, 2007

Wait...has not even tried it yet? How can you be 100% sure if thats the case. Ma huang contains ephedra alkaloids and looks like dirt. I suggest you break open a cap and then take a few and then accuse someone of ripping you off......

rotty · Feb 23, 2007

I don't know what to make of this. He can taste, smell and see ephedrine. He can do all that with only what 20mgs of ephedrine mixed with how much caffeine, 300mgs? And how much willow bark? Along with what else? I have to say I know when I take ephedrine containing products I get a nasty taste in the back of my throat but I don't know what it's from. Where exactly did he work for NVE. In the tree next to the Keebler elves stuffing ephedrine into capsules and passing it down to the next person for the next ingredient. I wonder do you have to pack the ephedrine into the capsule like they used to pack the gun powder into the muskets. Hmmmm

AWN2004 · Feb 23, 2007

This just really bugs me. Maybe because I deal with the same thing all day long at work. How in the world can you accuse someone of anything without even trying the product????????

K1 · Feb 23, 2007

That's some funny shit!!! Maybe he should make his own?!!!

oldfella · Feb 23, 2007

I would say that you should actually try one first......................before you acuse one of the stand up members here of scamming. Phil is well respected here for more than one reason. He is a pro and has a great reputation. Be carefull what you say. Try first!!

PHIL HERNON · Feb 23, 2007

PERSONALLY

I DO NOT USE IT. I NEED AN UNBIASED OPINION. EVERYONE TELLS ME IT IS GREAT, AND KEEPS RE ORDERING. I DO NOT WANT TO SCAM ANYONE.

phatrr · Feb 23, 2007

Question: is the product being sold ephedrine hydrochloride, which is a synthetic?
And is it being sold as "ephedra"?

If yes to both, then I can see room for miscommunication. When a natural-foods person says "ephedra", they mean only the herb.

Ephedra is still banned by the FDA.

Ephedrine hydrochloride is not. Ephedrine hydrochloride displays many of the same effects as ephedra; however, it is not ephedra.

Could that be the problem?

Roux · Feb 23, 2007

phatrr said:
Question: is the product being sold ephedrine hydrochloride, which is a synthetic?
And is it being sold as "ephedra"?

If yes to both, then I can see room for miscommunication. When a natural-foods person says "ephedra", they mean only the herb.

Ephedra is still banned by the FDA.

Ephedrine hydrochloride is not. Ephedrine hydrochloride displays many of the same effects as ephedra; however, it is not ephedra.

Could that be the problem?

i was thinking the same thing. is he possibly getting the two confused? i would think they have different taste/smell maybe.

oldfella · Feb 24, 2007

I think the majority of us know the difference between the two! But why not try one first before making a judgement. That's very interesting that eph. hydrchloride is allowed but ephedra is not. All of it is banned here. Eph Hydr. is only available on script and then it takes a specail authority to dispense from pharmacy. We are light years behind the rest of the world in supps and such. All because the TGA (therapeutic goods administration) and the large drug companies here are in each others pockets. Anything natural or that shows real promise is banned almost the day it hits the market. IT SUCKS!

mike1107 · Feb 24, 2007

in my opinion this mail sucks s**t

phatrr · Feb 24, 2007

oldfella said:
I think the majority of us know the difference between the two! But why not try one first before making a judgement. That's very interesting that eph. hydrchloride is allowed but ephedra is not. All of it is banned here. Eph Hydr. is only available on script and then it takes a specail authority to dispense from pharmacy. We are light years behind the rest of the world in supps and such. All because the TGA (therapeutic goods administration) and the large drug companies here are in each others pockets. Anything natural or that shows real promise is banned almost the day it hits the market. IT SUCKS!

Hey oldfella, I agree with you. Funny story: I walked into a health food store back when both were legal, and picked up a bottle of ephedra. At checkout, I mentioned that I normally took ephedrine hydrochloride, and did by chance did they have any as I liked it? I got my ears rung for 10 minutes as to how evil ephedrine hydrochloride is, how it's a poison, how it's....

I'm willing to bet that the lady who gave me that lecture would never consider trying the synthetic under any circumstances.

Not saying I agree. Just saying that there's some folks who take their herb seriously, I guess.

PHIL HERNON · Feb 24, 2007

It is

Ma Huang extract. (8% ephedrine alkaloids) - 250mg
Caffeine-200mg
White Willow Bark-75mg
Cayenne (40,000 SCU)-50mg
Ginger root-50mg

Per cap, 120 caps

rAJJIN · Feb 24, 2007

I dont know anything about the stuff.
Isnt one form of it from a plant? And the other is not?

I know some people are just a pain in the ass to deal with in life.
People Like that I usualy just try and keep away from. I mean you do your best to help a guy out and thats all you can do...Unfortinatley for some your best is never good enough.
If it were me Id probably send his $back or whatever it took "IF" he was being reasonable about it.Then Id not bother wasting anymore of my time with them.

BeenGone · Feb 24, 2007

PHIL HERNON said:
I DO NOT USE IT. I NEED AN UNBIASED OPINION. EVERYONE TELLS ME IT IS GREAT, AND KEEPS RE ORDERING. I DO NOT WANT TO SCAM ANYONE.

Not to bust your balls further ,but why would you not even try your own stuff?I think it is exactly what you say by the way , but dont understand why you would not even try it

Dont you use a pre-workout stimulant from time to time?

PHIL HERNON · Feb 24, 2007

NO

I NEVER USE IT. WHY SHOULD I USE IT, IS IT A PREREQUISITE? I KNOW A GUY THAT HAS IT, AND IF YOU WANT IT, SO BE IT.

phatrr · Feb 24, 2007

PHIL HERNON said:
Ma Huang extract. (8% ephedrine alkaloids) - 250mg
Caffeine-200mg
White Willow Bark-75mg
Cayenne (40,000 SCU)-50mg
Ginger root-50mg

Per cap, 120 caps

If that listing is right, then this is the real herb ephedra.

Phil, one question (and I'm not trying to discredit you in any way, just trying to understand the situation - if you want me to shut up, just say so

)

According to Wikipedia, the sale of this is illegal in the US. From what I've researched, this is accurate, and I read about a lot of people complaining they can't get their ephedra any more.

Do you think your supplier is ignoring the law?

SVFootball · Feb 24, 2007

i was told by a nutrional store owner that ephedra IS legal...

but you need some kind of special permit or somethin to distribute it...so places dont bother. he sells it in his store.

its called Asia Black or somethin??