clean calories vs dirty calories clean bulk vs dirty bulk

[The Wolf]

What you say is the difference between 5000 dirty calories and 5000 clean calories. Some would say they work out the same, (like a ton of bricks vs a ton of feathers) still weighs the same.

And how many of you do dirty bulks, like Lee Priest? I know he go's way extreme, 40kgs exra in the off season, thats 88Ibs. I know Big Heinz likes to eat anything during bulk as well.

 

[Adrenaline Rush]

its going to have a major effect hormonally speaking,, insulin production, test production etc...now the thing is we always talk in extremes...5000 calories worth of table sugar vs 5000 calories of chicken breast, steak, rice, eggs, oatmeal is not a realistic comparison...I think having some junk food in there to fill in the calories is fine...

I do not believe in carrying extra fat in the offseason (im talking to the point where you have to diet down 80lbs)..it is not healthy to carry that weight, it will take its toll on you down the road, your likely not going to achieve the hardness your looking for, loose skin becomes an issue..etc.....

just my opinion

as an aside,, scott abel just came out with his "Cycle Diet" CD in which he keeps his guys lean year round while gaining LBM, by dieting 6 days a week and one day a week, anythhing and everything goes...

 

[The Wolf]

Good point bro, I just dont understand how Lee does it. Im 26IBS above my contest weight and people are saying I look much better and that when I was on a contest diet I looked ill ect. Im sure everyone has had those comments one way or another.

 

[Trulyhuge]

The difference? The "dirty" bulk will make you accumulate MUCH more unwanted fat, period.

 

[Adrenaline Rush]

Good point bro, I just dont understand how Lee does it. Im 26IBS above my contest weight and people are saying I look much better and that when I was on a contest diet I looked ill ect. Im sure everyone has had those comments one way or another.

I hear that! post contest I look for every reason in the book to kick back and start chowing down...but then i remember how fukin hard it was to get conditioned...

As far as Lee Priest, we are talking about elite genetics that you nor I can compare to...chemical assistance plays a role too

 

[The Wolf]

The difference? The "dirty" bulk will make you accumulate MUCH more unwanted fat, period.

Ok but some guys are into there calorie counting and would say that eating 500grm calories from rice would be the same as getting 500 calories from french fries. or ice cream. Im actualy with you on this subject, its just that Im having a debate about it with someone and so I decided to play devils advocate and maybe it would help me win the argument by getting info from you guys.

 

[The Wolf]

I hear that! post contest I look for every reason in the book to kick back and start chowing down...but then i remember how fukin hard it was to get conditioned...

As far as Lee Priest, we are talking about elite genetics that you nor I can compare to...chemical assistance plays a role too

Im with you on the genetics thing, I know one or two guys personaly that eat shit off season and go on a small diet on season and dont even do cardio and get ripped whilst guys like you and me have to watch what we eat and do cardio everyday on season, it gets me mad

However I gota say this, since my last competition I have eating quite alot dirty and clean with loads of carbs and protein. I can honestly say that I havent grown this much even when I was on juice. My lats and chest have finaly started to grow. About time. This must be because Im consuming higher calories right?

 

[sammarbella]

its going to have a major effect hormonally speaking,, insulin production...

IMO that's the key: Insulin.

Major % of excessive fat depot in off-season comes from inadequate handle of insulin (endo or exo) and concurrent meals with carbs and fat together.

Protein+carbs can produce some fat depot, less for protein+fats but when you mix carbs+fats (with or without pro) you are transforming your body in a fat bag in no time!

Excessive calories can put on BF% but if you "help" with shit meals you'll be fat FAST.

Phenothypes is also an factor on this but secondary to slin.

Where an ecto can eat loads of junk food and stay lean an endo must have problems with more than 300 gr carbs per day and must do some cardio to stay lean.

There is no single response.

 

[The Wolf]

Ok you say insulin production but alot of us take insulin injections when we bulk up. Is the extra insulin a bad thing when bulking? And 300grms of carbs for a messo is barely maintenance. Jay Cutler was saying hes gonna 1000grm carbs a day!

 

[FastFrank]

The whole; mixing macros together will cause more fat gain as been disproven time and time again, it was just a theory long ago with no evidence. Remember, its not just carbohydrates that produce insulin.

If you get the same amount (and kind) of protien, sufficient fats (sat/mono sat/poly sat, o3s etc). Then its not going to matter as far as body comp goes, health could be a different story.

 

[sammarbella]

Ok you say insulin production but alot of us take insulin injections when we bulk up. Is the extra insulin a bad thing when bulking? And 300grms of carbs for a messo is barely maintenance. Jay Cutler was saying hes gonna 1000grm carbs a day!

Extra insulin is not bad.It's anabolic and lipogenic.We want to maximize his anabolic "side" and have under control his lipogenic "side".

For a true meso or an ecto insulin produce less fat depot than for an endo, THIS IS A FACT.

I saw it many times.Put to a meso an ecto and an endo the same diet, exercise and rest and you will see how different response you will get!

Insulin is the key and phenotype determine how your body metabolism is (Thyroid, insulin resistance, BMR...ect).

Jay Cutler is meso and has FREAK GENETIC!

The rest of us are humans.

I'm endo/meso and carb cycling with carbs only around training made a HUGE difference in my body composition, this is not "broteligence", this is real life experience.

 

[Adrenaline Rush]

I'm endo/meso and carb cycling with carbs only around training made a HUGE difference in my body composition, this is not "broteligence", this is real life experience.

unfortunately, im right there with ya,, makes me want to shed a tear, always fighting those fat kid tendencies...

a calorie is certainly not just a calorie

 

[The Wolf]

Thanks man you guys are bringing me back to planet earth again. I was doing the same diet as my training partner and he is living off ice cream on the off season and still looking good while Im begining to look like the marshamellow/michelin man. Time to start walking

 

[JohnnyPro]

All I can say is this: I am sick and tired of gaining too much fat when I bulk. The hell with eating everything in sight. I am going to eat less and keep a close eye on my bodyfat. If my gains are less I don't care, at least I won't have to lose 20 pounds or more like usual. Dieting is hell! I want to live! (I'm dieting right now, please excuse me)

 

[The Wolf]

All I can say is this: I am sick and tired of gaining too much fat when I bulk. The hell with eating everything in sight. I am going to eat less and keep a close eye on my bodyfat. If my gains are less I don't care, at least I won't have to lose 20 pounds or more like usual. Dieting is hell! I want to live! (I'm dieting right now, please excuse me)

20 pounds aint alot bro, just say half of it is water which you lose in the last 2 weeks on carb depletion and that leaves you with 10 pounds to lose and thats easy peasy on a 2 month diet. The worst thing is going over 20 pounds.
(your excused, carry on dieting )

 

[norm1220]

My idea of clean bulking is wiping the food off my shirt after each meal. If I don't jack up the sugars and the fats I can't get in enough calories to gain any weight. The victim of a fast metabolism......

 

[Moen]

Can you talk some more on the cycle diet adrenaline ?

Most of us can not afford the cd's

 

[AWN2004]

Put shitty, dirty oil and fuel into a race car and see how it runs compared to the car thats taken care of year round. Come race time, the more taken care of car will perform better....period. I don't believe in eating so fricken clean in the off season that you are dieting year round. But at the same time gorging yourself with fastfood and empty calories is a huge mistake. Its a pet peeve of mine when guys eat like shit and see the scale moving up and also the notches in their belts as well and think thats fine. To each is their own but I'll be damned if I mess up my body that badly to point of having to kill myself to get in shape. Eating more good foods in the off season is called bodybuilding...not bulking. This is entirely my opinion though and every person has the right to do as they feel...but come pre-contest time when your bf levels are 16-17% and you have 12-16 weeks to get into shape, you may have wished you didnt hit up taco bell and DQ several times each week during the off season.

 

[km2000]

Put shitty, dirty oil and fuel into a race car and see how it runs compared to the car thats taken care of year round. Come race time, the more taken care of car will perform better....period. I don't believe in eating so fricken clean in the off season that you are dieting year round. But at the same time gorging yourself with fastfood and empty calories is a huge mistake. Its a pet peeve of mine when guys eat like shit and see the scale moving up and also the notches in their belts as well and think thats fine. To each is their own but I'll be damned if I mess up my body that badly to point of having to kill myself to get in shape. Eating more good foods in the off season is called bodybuilding...not bulking. This is entirely my opinion though and every person has the right to do as they feel...but come pre-contest time when your bf levels are 16-17% and you have 12-16 weeks to get into shape, you may have wished you didnt hit up taco bell and DQ several times each week during the off season.

awn2004 good post man!
couldnt have said it better myself! you guys need to read this, then read it agian everytime you want to eat a shitty meal that is doing you no good...

i am in the gym and i will talk to these guys who think i should be proud of them cause they weigh 280lbs!, and thier planning on competing at 270 this year! haha... i just wish them luck and laugh my ass off behind thier back!....

with as much as we invest in our bodys, (not just money time also!) shit eat good foos that will build muscle.. theres no sense being more then 20lbs over your stage weight ever! (imo)