Concerned about Growth Hormone/IGF levels (blood work) Please help!

[littlebill]

Bro if IGF are meaningless - which they are not- then why did you test them and post your concern for the low number. Spring i am trying to help you as you seem like a cool dude and look great. The fact of the matter is that you seem to have a difficult time listening to those of us with more experience on this issue and get very defensive. Clearly your strategy and choices thus far regarding growth have been sub-par. Many of us have gone above and beyond to offer a better strategy for you. It is certainly not a knock or insult. Learn from our mistakes. We were all HGH newbies at some point and I wish I had the resources being offered to you back in the day. It would've saved me time and money. I did clearly warn you of that product as of late and out of respect for the member having major issues it is not my story to tell. GL to you and if your IGF came back at 700 like it should have we wouldn't be having this conversation. IGF-1 in the blood mirrors somatotropin production in the anterior pituitary. It is a great first line indicator to decipher whether your product is GTG. If it is high- great then further testing Is warranted. If it is
Low (like yours) no need for further testing. It is bunk. Once again fasted or not- 10iu tested at anytime of the day should have been roughly double
what you tested. So what is your conclusion?

 

[LEX]

so....

If I take brand X o gh and brand Y under the same conditions...

one hour before test
same amount
fasted


I should be able to say ..that brand x vrs brand y vrs clean....I could compare if I was at least using real gh?

also...to maximize the IGF levels going up on a normal GH intake day to take in some carbs with it.....

 

[littlebill]

so....

If I take brand X o gh and brand Y under the same conditions...

one hour before test
same amount
fasted


I should be able to say ..that brand x vrs brand y vrs clean....I could compare if I was at least using real gh?

also...to maximize the IGF levels going up on a normal GH intake day to take in some carbs with it.....

Exactly. If you test brand x under those conditions and your IGF does not move than you have bunk HGH- you definately have been duped. On the other hand-if your IGF does rocket than further testing protocol is in order for assurance.

 

[SPRINGWATER]

Bro if IGF are meaningless - which they are not- then why did you test them and post your concern for the low number. Spring i am trying to help you as you seem like a cool dude and look great. The fact of the matter is that you seem to have a difficult time listening to those of us with more experience on this issue and get very defensive. Clearly your strategy and choices thus far regarding growth have been sub-par. Many of us have gone above and beyond to offer a better strategy for you. It is certainly not a knock or insult. Learn from our mistakes. We were all HGH newbies at some point and I wish I had the resources being offered to you back in the day. It would've saved me time and money. I did clearly warn you of that product as of late and out of respect for the member having major issues it is not my story to tell. GL to you and if your IGF came back at 700 like it should have we wouldn't be having this conversation. IGF-1 in the blood mirrors somatotropin production in the anterior pituitary. It is a great first line indicator to decipher whether your product is GTG. If it is high- great then further testing Is warranted. If it is
Low (like yours) no need for further testing. It is bunk. Once again fasted or not- 10iu tested at anytime of the day should have been roughly double
what you tested. So what is your conclusion?

I really don't understand this constant passive aggressive attitude and criticism you have for me. Again, when did you ever warn me that novos were an inferior product? My strategy and choices have been sub-par? What a ridiculous statement for someone other than me to make. I honestly couldn't be more pleased with my results so far. In just a month, my body composition has been entirely transformed. I am only running 500mg of test and I certainly know the difference. I don't know how much more clear I can make this: I am certain this is legit growth. I find it laughable that you feel qualified to repeatedly dismiss it as a waste of money and time. I have all the common sides, growth serum levels 3x normal amount, and more than anything, tangible and quality results in just 30 days. On what grounds are you dismissing the knowledge claimed by other vets that IGF levels are a poor indicator of the quality of growth hormone? No offense, but just like in the last thread, you throw out assertions and pretty wild claims (the "overdose" on growth hormone and ending up in the hospital) and when pressed to substantiate your claims, you can't.


Hell, as I type this right now I can without a doubt feel the bloat and numbness in my hands and feet.

 

[SPRINGWATER]

From a vet on another board:'

IGF-1 blood tests aren't worth a bent dick when it comes to judging hGH quality.

On 5IU/day of Nutropin AQ, my IGF-1 levels were tested at three different levels on three different days. Two were bottom-normal, and one was normal. The Nutropin was legit because it came scripted and on ice from the pharmacy.

 

[osiris]

I really don't understand this constant passive aggressive attitude and criticism you have for me. Again, when did you ever warn me that novos were an inferior product? My strategy and choices have been sub-par? What a ridiculous statement for someone other than me to make. I honestly couldn't be more pleased with my results so far. In just a month, my body composition has been entirely transformed. I am only running 500mg of test and I certainly know the difference. I don't know how much more clear I can make this: I am certain this is legit growth. I find it laughable that you feel qualified to repeatedly dismiss it as a waste of money and time. I have all the common sides, growth serum levels 3x normal amount, and more than anything, tangible and quality results in just 30 days. On what grounds are you dismissing the knowledge claimed by other vets that IGF levels are a poor indicator of the quality of growth hormone? No offense, but just like in the last thread, you throw out assertions and pretty wild claims (the "overdose" on growth hormone and ending up in the hospital) and when pressed to substantiate your claims, you can't.


Hell, as I type this right now I can without a doubt feel the bloat and numbness in my hands and feet.

Igf levels can vary based on the dosing protocol you use. If you split your dose of igf throughout the day, igf levels will be correspondingly lower. Its when you take a large dose, your body goes into overdrive signaling the igf conversaion to begin and that can be influenced depending on what other compounds you are on. If you know the answers, why ask questions? To read your own posts?

 

[osiris]

Bro if IGF are meaningless - which they are not- then why did you test them and post your concern for the low number. Spring i am trying to help you as you seem like a cool dude and look great. The fact of the matter is that you seem to have a difficult time listening to those of us with more experience on this issue and get very defensive. Clearly your strategy and choices thus far regarding growth have been sub-par. Many of us have gone above and beyond to offer a better strategy for you. It is certainly not a knock or insult. Learn from our mistakes. We were all HGH newbies at some point and I wish I had the resources being offered to you back in the day. It would've saved me time and money. I did clearly warn you of that product as of late and out of respect for the member having major issues it is not my story to tell. GL to you and if your IGF came back at 700 like it should have we wouldn't be having this conversation. IGF-1 in the blood mirrors somatotropin production in the anterior pituitary. It is a great first line indicator to decipher whether your product is GTG. If it is high- great then further testing Is warranted. If it is
Low (like yours) no need for further testing. It is bunk. Once again fasted or not- 10iu tested at anytime of the day should have been roughly double
what you tested. So what is your conclusion?

The science is correct here bill. You are right. At 10iu, i would assume it would be higher but he is splitting the dose AND he is administering it IV. I will research more but i would think the reduced clearance time would adversely impact igf conversion. Even on 5iu, his igf level should have been higher though

 

[johnjay06]

From a vet on another board:'

IGF-1 blood tests aren't worth a bent dick when it comes to judging hGH quality.

On 5IU/day of Nutropin AQ, my IGF-1 levels were tested at three different levels on three different days. Two were bottom-normal, and one was normal. The Nutropin was legit because it came scripted and on ice from the pharmacy.

I'd take that advice with a grain of salt. I saw your thread, and IMO, IGF tests definitely mean something.

 

[SPRINGWATER]

Igf levels can vary based on the dosing protocol you use. If you split your dose of igf throughout the day, igf levels will be correspondingly lower. Its when you take a large dose, your body goes into overdrive signaling the igf conversaion to begin and that can be influenced depending on what other compounds you are on. If you know the answers, why ask questions? To read your own posts?

Yes, in fact I get great satisfaction out of wasting my time and posting questions in which I already know the answers to. lol

Bro, obviously after making these threads I found out the answer. I very much appreciate the information you provided but I am wondering if it is a typo when you wrote, "If you split your dose of igf throughout the day, igf levels will be correspondingly lower." Did you mean Growth Hormone instead of IGF? I think it makes perfect sense that especially since I have been splitting my doses and using IV administration the IGF levels are low. On DatBTrue's board he gave one of the most informative posts I have ever read regarding IV use and corresponding IGF and "pulse" levels. With the information I learned from making these threads, I really have zero doubt about the quality of the growth I am using.

Are you familiar with the growth hormone serum test? I have never heard if it before. It tested at about 3x the normal amount.

Thanks bro.

 

[rock75]

If anyone has read my thread at all, we found out to get the best igf-1 test results, DO NOT FAST BEFORE YOUR BLOOD DRAW!!!You need a high carb meal mixed with hi and low gi foods, with protein if you like.

So on the day of the test, lets say at 8am you get up. 8am, take your gh. 8:20ish eat your carb meal. between 9:30-11:30 get your blood drawn(if it was a sub q inject). you can eat another meal if you want if youre waiting til almost 3 hours post admin to get blood drawn. simple.

I've already said this a few times now. I can't believe I'm saying it again. IGF-1 levels are not an effective indicator of how good your Growth Hormone is. It's like using estrogen levels to decide how good your test prop is.

They test substantially higher because Insulin was present in high enough amounts to make IGF-1. That's all there is to it. Nothing more needs to be said about this, time to move on.

the high carb meal prior to testing would lead to what discohornet has stated here....i would venture to say that the higher your serum values are the more legit your GH would be....but IGF levels need to be considered as well cause obviously good things have happened to Jesse and others who have these elevated IGF levels

disclaimer...no i have not done gh before but am reading up on all i can regarding its use so i get the most out of it in the future...

 

[osiris]

Yes, in fact I get great satisfaction out of wasting my time and posting questions in which I already know the answers to. lol

Bro, obviously after making these threads I found out the answer. I very much appreciate the information you provided but I am wondering if it is a typo when you wrote, "If you split your dose of igf throughout the day, igf levels will be correspondingly lower." Did you mean Growth Hormone instead of IGF? I think it makes perfect sense that especially since I have been splitting my doses and using IV administration the IGF levels are low. On DatBTrue's board he gave one of the most informative posts I have ever read regarding IV use and corresponding IGF and "pulse" levels. With the information I learned from making these threads, I really have zero doubt about the quality of the growth I am using.

Are you familiar with the growth hormone serum test? I have never heard if it before. It tested at about 3x the normal amount.

Thanks bro.

it was a typo, you are correct, the gh adminsitration split up over the course of the day. Larger doses of gh trigger a bigger biological response than smaller . If you take some insulin with it, it triggers and even bigger response.

As far as i know i did not believe that there was an accurate test for measuring gh concentration but the one to ask might be dat. He is way more knwoledgeable than me in that arena.

And nothing wrong with like to read your own writing every once in a while=-)

 

[littlebill]

OP you come over here concerned about your IGF-1 levels and then you hear what you don't like- and then you whine like a bitch. Bottom line is your numbers do suck as my base IGF-1 is higher than yours on 10iu! So something is wrong. Your are hard headed, very argumentative, and put down respected members of this board. I'm done with you- it's like beating a dead horse. Springwater=The HGH guru who asks the most basic and simplest questions- doesn't like what he hears- then comes to his inconclusive incorrect conclusions! Science at it's best! I will never reply to any of your posts again- as you are a waste of my time on your sub-par underdosed product. :banghead:

 

[gazgazo]

Springwater,

Are you taking any estrogen maintenance drugs like Nolvadex or Evista? These drugs are known to reduce IGF levels.

 

[SPRINGWATER]

OP you come over here concerned about your IGF-1 levels and then you hear what you don't like- and then you whine like a bitch. Bottom line is your numbers do suck as my base IGF-1 is higher than yours on 10iu! So something is wrong. Your are hard headed, very argumentative, and put down respected members of this board. I'm done with you- it's like beating a dead horse. Springwater=The HGH guru who asks the most basic and simplest questions- doesn't like what he hears- then comes to his inconclusive incorrect conclusions! Science at it's best! I will never reply to any of your posts again- as you are a waste of my time on your sub-par underdosed product. :banghead:

littlebill, all kidding aside, you have serious issues. Any reasonable person who has read my threads where me and you conversed can see what you just wrote is horse shit. We've been down this road many times where you make a claim, I ask you to back it up, and then you are quiet as a mouse: Show me where I whine like a bitch. Show me where I ever claimed to be a guru on hgh. Show me where someone overdosed on growth hormone and ended up in the hospital as you claimed (that'll be the 7th time I've asked you that and you STILL can't substantiate your claim.) Show me where you ever previously warned me that novos were an inferior product. Show me where I've insulted respected members. You are either delusional or have trouble telling the truth. Can you even grasp how childish you look making up lies, repeatedly insulting me for no reason, then saying you are done and won't respond?

I really don't understand why you have such a hard on for me. I have no clue who you are and I don't even think I could accurately articulate how meaningless your opinion of me is.

Just a reminder, you don't have to start an entirely new thread about this like you did earlier. If this is still causing you so much grief and I am still so prevalent on your mind, just pm me. No need for you to further pollute the board with your nonsense.

 

[littlebill]

Spring I saw your pics that you posted a while back and I think you look great and have much upward potential. With that said- you come on here asking legitimate questions and when you don't hear what you like or want to hear you get ultra-defensive and verbally insult the very people you are asking for help. I posted that someone I know very well had an issue with your very product. I do not need to disclose someones medical condition and specifics to you. It is none of your or my business. And yes- one can have many complications if HGH is taken irresponsibly and wind up in the hospital for an array of complications. If you would just slow down and listen you could quite possibly learn something bro. Post your pics again- show everyone how good you look- and this is not meant as an insult- but if you look that good without knowing how to properly use HGH- Imagine what a little knowledge and implementation would do. The bottom line is that your IGF levels are very very low for someone running 10iu- of ANY growth. Are you open to suggestions- and we can all get along?

 

[SPRINGWATER]

Spring I saw your pics that you posted a while back and I think you look great and have much upward potential. With that said- you come on here asking legitimate questions and when you don't hear what you like or want to hear you get ultra-defensive and verbally insult the very people you are asking for help. I posted that someone I know very well had an issue with your very product. I do not need to disclose someones medical condition and specifics to you. It is none of your or my business. And yes- one can have many complications if HGH is taken irresponsibly and wind up in the hospital for an array of complications. If you would just slow down and listen you could quite possibly learn something bro. Post your pics again- show everyone how good you look- and this is not meant as an insult- but if you look that good without knowing how to properly use HGH- Imagine what a little knowledge and implementation would do. The bottom line is that your IGF levels are very very low for someone running 10iu- of ANY growth. Are you open to suggestions- and we can all get along?

You are honestly a joke. You post all this koombayah-can't we all just get along-bullshit here, then a half hour later you post this in another thread about me:

You keep on and on...blah blah blah. Repeating incorrect misinformation to make yourself feel better about your rather low score.

I've already demonstrated that you are a liar and make unfounded assertions (actually you have proven that.) Again, show me where I "verbally insulted" the people trying to help me. Can you back up ANY claim you have made? No, you can't.

Why would I even consider listening to your opinion on IGF levels when numerous people, who blow your credibility out of the water, have logical and rational explanations to why IGF levels are a poor indicator of quality growth hormone? Besides your inclination to lying, do you also have trouble comprehending? My Growth Hormone Serum levels tested at over 3x the normal amount. Keep telling yourself how accurate IGF level testing is when things like administration, diet, timing, etc. all can lead to wild fluctuations.


I don't normally use such cliche insults as "take your medication" but in all honesty, go take whatever stabilizing medicine you skipped today. No one is interested in you creating new threads about me, asking for peace here then insulting me a half hour later in another thread, etc. Honestly, stop polluting this thread with your bullshit. I already told I can't even accurately articulate how meaningless your opinions are to me. Maybe if you didn't act so erratically and be such a blatant liar it would be a different story. Now seriously, there's no need to continue this here. If you STILL have an issue PM ME!

 

[SPRINGWATER]

And it's funny how YOU can't disclose the persons medical condition and it's none of my business yet YOU brought it up to me and the person was OK with posting his experience on this message board. Maybe the reason you don't want to disclose the information is because AGAIN you are lying. The person was using RIPTROPINS. NOT NOVOTROPINS. Is everything that comes out of your mouth complete horse shit? Are you even capable of being truthful?

 

[littlebill]

So I am a liar now? Here is your original post where you were schooled and then came to reasoning:
So who is the liar?

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...ctors/76653-first-time-growth-go-all-out.html

I'm going leave it at that. GL

 

[littlebill]

And it's funny how YOU can't disclose the persons medical condition and it's none of my business yet YOU brought it up to me and the person was OK with posting his experience on this message board. Maybe the reason you don't want to disclose the information is because AGAIN you are lying. The person was using RIPTROPINS. NOT NOVOTROPINS. Is everything that comes out of your mouth complete horse shit? Are you even capable of being truthful?

No- not correct. Keep looking.

 

[SPRINGWATER]

So I am a liar now? Here is your original post where you were schooled and then came to reasoning:
So who is the liar?

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...ctors/76653-first-time-growth-go-all-out.html

I'm going leave it at that. GL

Yes, leave it at that. Quit while you are way behind. I went literally point by point about the stupid assertions you have made and your only response is to provide a link to the thread that I, myself, have brought up numerous times, as if that should mean anything on your behalf.


You're a really creepy individual. Leave me alone lol.