elitefts article; "The Aerobic Fallacy"

[btech]

**broken link removed**

There's a lot of really experienced people on this board, I am curious what you guys think of this article.

If you don't feel like reading the article, here's an excerpt that may make you want to read it;

"For those of you who have seen Pumping Iron, notice that Arnold was in the best shape of his career, yet he performs no aerobics, just intense weight training and dieting. When Arnold made his comeback to the bodybuilding stage in 1980, he had bought into the aerobics revolution also, and the physique he brought to the stage was the smallest, softest, and out of shape of his entire career."

 

[Fa Seeshus]

that is a bogus logic. arnold only trained for 8 weeks in total rebuild, that is why he was out of shape.

if that article is citing movies, then what about the movie "stay hungry" shot right before pumping iron. in that film arnold is doing alot of running and aerobics.

the author does have some good points--especially about repetitive stress from jogging. his generalizations about gymnasts and sprinters is a little off though-- it is not like a sprinter just shows up at the track and busts out a few 100m sprints and calls it a day-- anyone who tries that will end up with some torn muscles. trust me, i've made that mistake. to train in either sport you engage in lengthy progressive warmups that elevate your heart rate, respiration and body temp. even though the athlete may not be jogging (they could be performing a circuit of dynamic stretches and calisthenics) they still are doing some form of aerobics. you also walk quite a bit as you are recovering between intervals and during the cool down. when i did college track, the sprinters spent alot of time warming up and cooling down on the stationary bikes. alot of the distance runners lifted, and though of course they were not big, they were lean and toned. i think one of the main culprits for the skinnyfat '80s aerobic warrior was the silly mega-pasta diet they were all choking down. back then many people actually believed you could not get fat by overconsuming starchy carbs.

 

[btech]

that is a bogus logic. arnold only trained for 8 weeks in total rebuild, that is why he was out of shape.

if that article is citing movies, then what about the movie "stay hungry" shot right before pumping iron. in that film arnold is doing alot of running and aerobics.

the author does have some good points--especially about repetitive stress from jogging. his generalizations about gymnasts and sprinters is a little off though-- it is not like a sprinter just shows up at the track and busts out a few 100m sprints and calls it a day-- anyone who tries that will end up with some torn muscles. trust me, i've made that mistake. to train in either sport you engage in lengthy progressive warmups that elevate your heart rate, respiration and body temp. even though the athlete may not be jogging (they could be performing a circuit of dynamic stretches and calisthenics) they still are doing some form of aerobics. you also walk quite a bit as you are recovering between intervals and during the cool down. when i did college track, the sprinters spent alot of time warming up and cooling down on the stationary bikes. alot of the distance runners lifted, and though of course they were not big, they were lean and toned. i think one of the main culprits for the skinnyfat '80s aerobic warrior was the silly mega-pasta diet they were all choking down. back then many people actually believed you could not get fat by overconsuming starchy carbs.

Good post Fa Sheeshus, thanks!

A little selective editing in the two picture comparisons were done in his favor - an old skinny white dude who doesn't lift against a black dude who probably lifts in addition to sprinting? ha!

i am going to read up more on sprints.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

pm me any q's on sprinting. i did it for a while.

most imp is find one of them new red bouncy rubber tracks. your knees and ankles will thank you for it.

 

[abolish the weak]

thats a bunch of bullshit, we arent talking about running marathons with bodybuilding, we're talking about a brisk walk or a stair climber for 30 or 40 min intervals

 

[btech]

thats a bunch of bullshit, we arent talking about running marathons with bodybuilding, we're talking about a brisk walk or a stair climber for 30 or 40 min intervals

I thought an interesting point was when he mentioned that doing "fat burning zone" cardio turns your body into a machine where once it recognizes its need to burn fat for fuel, it'll store more fat to be used as fuel later on.

Not saying that I 100% believe it, but it's something to think about.

Whether you're talking about marathon running or even a half-hour brisk walk, his statement is that the most efficient way to burn fat while holding onto muscle (and not storing fat later on) is the kind of aerobics that leave you in an oxygen debt

 

[Mr_Magoo]

I thought an interesting point was when he mentioned that doing "fat burning zone" cardio turns your body into a machine where once it recognizes its need to burn fat for fuel, it'll store more fat to be used as fuel later on.

Not saying that I 100% believe it, but it's something to think about.

Whether you're talking about marathon running or even a half-hour brisk walk, his statement is that the most efficient way to burn fat while holding onto muscle (and not storing fat later on) is the kind of aerobics that leave you in an oxygen debt

while much of this does have merit, the health benefits of cardio are well known, it makes me feel better the rest of the day and on training days it helps prep me for my workout later on in the day, the arc trainer is good for this as it allows muscles to slowly work through a large range of motion and the increased blood flow aids muscle recovery IMO

 

[thedonker]

surely someone picked up that the sprinter was dwain chambers the british athelete who has recently admitted his drug used protocol to try and get the fia to let him compete again, he has amitted to used well ............. just about everything and i mean everything, test, slin, growth, igf, aas, erm there were other things in the list too,

i just thought it funny the comparison to the lean chicken and dwain, I saw a recent picture of dwain and he is sooooo shredded, must be all the sprinting and HIT he does, whatever......

i just thought it ironic.

anyhow, I have seen data to the contary for fatloss, and bodycomposition changes, there are simply too many elements to sum it all up like that, when really I think the biggest single most important thing is genetics.

 

[Mr_Magoo]

also if u want an aerobic routine that leaves u in an oxygen debt and to prevent the adaptations that lead to fat storage, rotate the cardio u do, use pretty much all the equipment at ur disposal, do wheelbarrow walks and weighted walks outside for a change of pace as well

 

[Fa Seeshus]

the chambers comparison is funny, until you consider that if the emaciated distance runner is world class, he is probably on a ton of banned drugs too.

 

[Mr_Magoo]

i love when people compare cardio to weightlifting as this author does by citing Arnold training routine which was high volume but not aerobic in nature

yet u also have people who make this argument where they say Arnolds training routine is similar to aerobics when they argue in favor of HIT training saying that HIT is more akin to sprinting and they always say to look at the difference between sprinters and marathon runners

and i've written this on the board a while back where the sprinter vs. marathon analogy to HIT vs. Volume training is just flat out wrong! For starters as others have mentioned Sprinting is actually more volume oriented bc they dont go out there everyday, do one all-out sprint and call it a day and not train again for days after. they do warm-ups, repeated runs at different intensities...etc...

comparing Volume Training to marathon running is also wrong because it is not like volume trainers go out there and curl for 3 hours straight

 

[Neanderthal]

I didnt look at this as

a sprinter vs long distance for burning fat as I did decreasing your time during workout sets to increase calorie burning when weight training. These guys at elitefts know their stuff. I have been doing their method of training here the last 4-5 months and have made tremendous gains.

 

[dragonfire101]

Charles Poliquin has many articles and books published on training like a sprinter for burning fat and that the long marathon sessions is not the way to go and has sited studies on this.

I will have to agree. I have not been in single digit body fat the last 3 years. I have not done sprints in the past 3 years. Haven't had time to go to the track and the gym. My buddy has been bothering me to go run sprints because he gets the best fat loss that way. The couple of guys I know who compete who are in single bdf% year round were sprinters in college and still sprint.

I can reduce carbs, calories, do cardio for 1hr at 70% of target heart rate and get minimal returns in fat loss. When I sprint fat starts melting off after about 2 weeks.

I NEED TO START SPRINTING AGAIN!!!

 

[mexikaz]

i know absoulety nothing about sprinting, im under the impression that sprinting is running as hard as you can for x amount of time. please correct me if im wrong.so can someone please expalin the whole sprinting for fat loss method please.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

"i know absoulety nothing about sprinting, im under the impression that sprinting is running as hard as you can for x amount of time. please correct me if im wrong.so can someone please expalin the whole sprinting for fat loss method please."

mexikaz
don't get caught up in the whole "running as hard as you can" mentality. you will just tense up and pull something.

in good sprint training you are relaxed and crisply accelerating over a distance of about 35-70 meters. do about 8-10 of these accelerations, gradually increasing your speed over the course of the sets.

you can gradually increase intensity by reducing the rest interval, or running up a slight incline.

if you are light enough, 200m repeats are good too.

i wouldn't bother with the track starts-- they are just extra stress on the joints and ligaments. you can start each run from a light jog.


soccer is a good sport that has alot of short sprints. if you want to rip up quick, just join a pickup soccer league.

 

[mexikaz]

"i know absoulety nothing about sprinting, im under the impression that sprinting is running as hard as you can for x amount of time. please correct me if im wrong.so can someone please expalin the whole sprinting for fat loss method please."

mexikaz
don't get caught up in the whole "running as hard as you can" mentality. you will just tense up and pull something.

in good sprint training you are relaxed and crisply accelerating over a distance of about 35-70 meters. do about 8-10 of these accelerations, gradually increasing your speed over the course of the sets.

you can gradually increase intensity by reducing the rest interval, or running up a slight incline.

if you are light enough, 200m repeats are good too.

i wouldn't bother with the track starts-- they are just extra stress on the joints and ligaments. you can start each run from a light jog.


soccer is a good sport that has alot of short sprints. if you want to rip up quick, just join a pickup soccer league.

first of all,
thanks for the insight. u pretty much help me understnd the sprinting thing.but just to make sure...i should start each set wit a jog then just acclerate 4 35-70 metters doing 8-10 sets right? but since im doing this as my "cardio" should i do it first thing in the morning or after a workout? how many times a week should i do this.should i worry about over training my legs?sorry for the extra questions bro im just trying to go in the right direction.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

i like to do the sprints the day after i work legs. i'll do about 20 min of light cardio first, and some dynamic drills and leg swings.

sometimes on this day after legs i may work shoulders and back via power cleans and snatches. these warm up the hamstrings enough that you can just head straight from the gym to the track and do your sprints.


try to do them on a nice rubber track. it that is not available, use a field. don't do them on cement.


an anaerobic drill you can on cement is car pushes. you can do these after any workout. make sure to have the car off though... the carbon monoxide will completely f' you up.

 

[aesop]

I thought an interesting point was when he mentioned that doing "fat burning zone" cardio turns your body into a machine where once it recognizes its need to burn fat for fuel, it'll store more fat to be used as fuel later on.

Not saying that I 100% believe it, but it's something to think about.

Whether you're talking about marathon running or even a half-hour brisk walk, his statement is that the most efficient way to burn fat while holding onto muscle (and not storing fat later on) is the kind of aerobics that leave you in an oxygen debt

I didn't read the article but I already know it was written by some Anthony roberts wannabe douche bag, who doesnt know shit other than what he has been told by someone else. Any one who knows anything about human physiology knows that humans have a great aerobic capacity and infact have "evolved" to run. Running or other aerobic exercise does not lead to future increase fat storage (marathon running is different elevated cortisol etc) but will actually lead to increased insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue and decreased insulin sensitivity in adipocytes. This selectively shuttles nutrients to muscle tissue and away from fat. Not to mention the health detriment of exclusively lifting weights ( Thickening of the left ventricle and enlarged heart), everyone should do cardio no matter what your goals are.

 

[btech]

a sprinter vs long distance for burning fat as I did decreasing your time during workout sets to increase calorie burning when weight training. These guys at elitefts know their stuff. I have been doing their method of training here the last 4-5 months and have made tremendous gains.

Good point. He did mention how lifting weights is cardio too. Ever try DC style rest-pausing? DAMN that's some cardio right there, along with the leg-widowmakers.

EliteFTS has some great stuff, do a search on all of their youtube videos of their seminars, tons of GOLD information.

Charles Poliquin has many articles and books published on training like a sprinter for burning fat and that the long marathon sessions is not the way to go and has sited studies on this.

I will have to agree. I have not been in single digit body fat the last 3 years. I have not done sprints in the past 3 years. Haven't had time to go to the track and the gym. My buddy has been bothering me to go run sprints because he gets the best fat loss that way. The couple of guys I know who compete who are in single bdf% year round were sprinters in college and still sprint.

I can reduce carbs, calories, do cardio for 1hr at 70% of target heart rate and get minimal returns in fat loss. When I sprint fat starts melting off after about 2 weeks.

I NEED TO START SPRINTING AGAIN!!!

Good post man. I have just started sprinting after reading this article, and seeing a post like this helps to get me more excited about losing fat. I am in the same boat as you when it comes to lowering carbs and doing low-intensity cardio with minimal results (however, last year i did low-intensity cardio twice a day six days a week with like 20g of carbs a day and got CUT UP but looked like a scarecrow!). You gonna start sprinting again soon?

don't get caught up in the whole "running as hard as you can" mentality. you will just tense up and pull something.

in good sprint training you are relaxed and crisply accelerating over a distance of about 35-70 meters. do about 8-10 of these accelerations, gradually increasing your speed over the course of the sets.

you can gradually increase intensity by reducing the rest interval, or running up a slight incline.

if you are light enough, 200m repeats are good too.

i wouldn't bother with the track starts-- they are just extra stress on the joints and ligaments. you can start each run from a light jog.


soccer is a good sport that has alot of short sprints. if you want to rip up quick, just join a pickup soccer league.

Good information, I myself was thinking sprinting involved the track start with running at top speed...and I was doing it on concrete lol.....with this new information I have, I'm sure I'll thank you later for it

I didn't read the article but I already know it was written by some Anthony roberts wannabe douche bag, who doesnt know shit other than what he has been told by someone else. Any one who knows anything about human physiology knows that humans have a great aerobic capacity and infact have "evolved" to run. Running or other aerobic exercise does not lead to future increase fat storage (marathon running is different elevated cortisol etc) but will actually lead to increased insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue and decreased insulin sensitivity in adipocytes. This selectively shuttles nutrients to muscle tissue and away from fat. Not to mention the health detriment of exclusively lifting weights ( Thickening of the left ventricle and enlarged heart), everyone should do cardio no matter what your goals are.

This makes perfect sense. It's one thing to be a jacked bodybuilder but it's another thing to be a healthy athlete. I workout at a college gym, so I don't see many older, advanced bodybuilders, but some of the most impressive physiques in my gym belong to dudes who do plenty of cardio/running/sprints.


Damn, lots of good information from you guys

 

[dragonfire101]

Good post man. I have just started sprinting after reading this article, and seeing a post like this helps to get me more excited about losing fat. I am in the same boat as you when it comes to lowering carbs and doing low-intensity cardio with minimal results (however, last year i did low-intensity cardio twice a day six days a week with like 20g of carbs a day and got CUT UP but looked like a scarecrow!). You gonna start sprinting again soon?

Ya, I have to start. I like sprinting on grass. I moved so that has something to do with it. There was a soccer field down the street from my old house in walking distance. Now there isn't. I need to start bringing my gym cloths to work so i can go right after at the field near work, on off days. I use to like doing hills also. That soccer field had a hill i would run up and down. I used decreasing rest times between sprints and would also add a sprint every week.