Evolution.

[jrs]

I understand that some/all of these questions could be completely off-base and/or be completely speculative with no finite answer, but I'd like differing ideas on these topics. Hence my posting. On with it.

1. I notice that vegetarians are the sickliest people I know. I believe meat is absolutely necessary to survive and live well without a true deficiency. My rationale is that, because we have incisors, are bodies must be meant to chew, swallow, and digest flesh of animals. Would you agree with this?

2. Is it possible that people of Northern European descent wouldn't digest most fruits as well as somebody native to the area they're produced? An example would be that I wouldn't imagine that many Vikings ate bananas. Also, I know that Native Americans on average have a much higher chance of becoming lactose intolerant than most races. Would their particular digestive systems be less tolerant to perceived "strange" foods?

3. What would have been the likelihood that a human would eat MOSTLY flesh? We -hunted- primarily, no? Would we have even seeked veggies and oats etc? What were portions mostly like?

4. Does anybody know how much testosterone we would have likely produced compared to the established levels of the equivalent of 70-100mg per week currently, say.. 500, 1000, 5000 years ago? 600mg was proven to have few side affects in the New England Journal of Medicine. Perhaps, over time, these levels were diminished from much higher, but tolerable, natural hormone levels as we evolved and had less competition in regards to reproduction? Does anyone know, or know where to find out, the testosterone levels produced by primates? Wild or captive?

5. Going back to one of my earlier questions, would it be likely that eating the foods indigenous to our own ancestor's environment would be better for us in every regard (muscle growth, bodyfat accumulation, health, sleep, psyche, etc)? Would it be possible to make a list of best foods for people of different races? EXAMPLE:

Northern Native American:
- Red meat - in the form of elk, deer, rabbits (I bet ya didn't know rabbit was red meat...)
- Fish (lake fish and salmon)
- Nuts
- Berries.. not many other fruits (more specifically.. "bush berries".. raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, strawberries)
- Various herbs

Asians would include mostly fish, rice, and vegetables, etc.

Inuit would be mostly fish and some seaweed? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[jrs]

I guess I'm the only one that thinks about stuff like this. Is it that boring? haha

 

[Big A]

I think it's extremely interesting and gave me something to think about.

 

[KTT]

Peter J. D'Adamo is looking into blood types : Eat Right 4 Your Type

http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Right-You...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242376113&sr=1-1

or The GenoType Diet

http://www.amazon.com/GenoType-Diet...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242376265&sr=1-1

 

[617ricky]

You have the right idea about what you're thinking.. Different ethnicities of people adapted to their particular diets.. And yea, humans are definitely meant to eat meat - incisors are for ripping flesh.. I dunno if I'd say it's absolutely necessary to eat meat - but we are definitely designed for it and meant to do it..

I saw something on Discovery before I think it was, or maybe read it - but it was about Neanderthals and early humans.. They definitely ate mostly animals, so their diet was really high in fat/protein.. And it was before farming, so they weren't eating many grains and things like that.. But I guess when you're adapted to that diet of high fat/protein, it would be healthy for you, but obviously only the natural variety found in the flesh of freshly killed animals, lol.. It's kinda like polar bears - they hunt seals, and if food is plentiful, they don't even eat the meat, only the fat, cuz it's the highest energy source, and those polar animals are obviously lined with plenty of it..

As far as Test production, I'd guess the Neanderthals produced more than we do - they're actually a pretty interesting topic.. Scientists kno that they were a separate species than us, and they were around until 25,000 years ago or so.. They were similar to humans, but I think it's crazy that they were actually a different species.. They were much more animalistic and stronger than regular humans.. And it's speculated they weren't as intelligent.. With humans, the evidence points towards us using weapons to hunt our animals from afar - but Neanderthals would gang up on these huge animals and fight them in close quarters with their bare hands, and maybe a club or something.. Remains they found have all kinds of fractured bones and shit, and it seemed really commonplace - so these dude weren't afraid to play rough.. There's 2 theories about what happened to them.. 1 theory has them getting further and further secluded by the humans that were rapidly colonizing new areas, and since the humans were smarter, and they may have been frightened by the sight of Neanderthals - they may have kinda just tried to push them outta the way, stealing their kills, and driving them to extinction.. And the other theory is that Neanderthals and humans possibly mated, creating the modern day humans.. But I don't think there's any actual proof of that..

Jeez, that was a rant hahaha.

 

[jrs]

You have the right idea about what you're thinking.. Different ethnicities of people adapted to their particular diets.. And yea, humans are definitely meant to eat meat - incisors are for ripping flesh.. I dunno if I'd say it's absolutely necessary to eat meat - but we are definitely designed for it and meant to do it..

I saw something on Discovery before I think it was, or maybe read it - but it was about Neanderthals and early humans.. They definitely ate mostly animals, so their diet was really high in fat/protein.. And it was before farming, so they weren't eating many grains and things like that.. But I guess when you're adapted to that diet of high fat/protein, it would be healthy for you, but obviously only the natural variety found in the flesh of freshly killed animals, lol.. It's kinda like polar bears - they hunt seals, and if food is plentiful, they don't even eat the meat, only the fat, cuz it's the highest energy source, and those polar animals are obviously lined with plenty of it..

As far as Test production, I'd guess the Neanderthals produced more than we do - they're actually a pretty interesting topic.. Scientists kno that they were a separate species than us, and they were around until 25,000 years ago or so.. They were similar to humans, but I think it's crazy that they were actually a different species.. They were much more animalistic and stronger than regular humans.. And it's speculated they weren't as intelligent.. With humans, the evidence points towards us using weapons to hunt our animals from afar - but Neanderthals would gang up on these huge animals and fight them in close quarters with their bare hands, and maybe a club or something.. Remains they found have all kinds of fractured bones and shit, and it seemed really commonplace - so these dude weren't afraid to play rough.. There's 2 theories about what happened to them.. 1 theory has them getting further and further secluded by the humans that were rapidly colonizing new areas, and since the humans were smarter, and they may have been frightened by the sight of Neanderthals - they may have kinda just tried to push them outta the way, stealing their kills, and driving them to extinction.. And the other theory is that Neanderthals and humans possibly mated, creating the modern day humans.. But I don't think there's any actual proof of that..

Jeez, that was a rant hahaha.

If I were a human in that age, I may have banged a Neanderthal. Not gonna lie. I'd say it's plausible.

Interesting stuff.

 

[gelatine]

What a neanderthal woman might look like.

 

[jdavid1139]

If I were you , to get the answers I would approach a Master's student in Anthroplogy, as this has a possible thesis potential. It would take independant research to answer those questions, but they are very good... I studied anthroplogy in college, and studied similiar ideas...

Any university around you probably has a anth dept... Talk to head of dept. ask him to hook you up with a grad student... Its really worth it I believe...

The research would be expensive, though...

 

[JETHRO TULL]

It's interesting.

It's early here and I am not awake yet. I am hungry. lol.

 

[lynx]

Not only are are large part of Native populations lactose intolerant but also diabetic. I am just under 1/2 and lived on the reservation for most of my life. My dad is a white dude and my mom was Native. When I finished college I went to work for the community college back home, I taught math but after competing a few time the dean asked me to teach a lifting course. I started with the basics of food and one aspect that I stressed was the fact that as a people have only been living as European have for less than 130 years and our diets were not the same. For example my grandpa partly grew up in a mission where he was punished for speaking Blackfeet. [For those of you who don't know, a mission is a religious school (often Catholic) where Native children were taken to be "civilized".] So the fact that Natives never had sugars in their diets and now it's a huge problem and there are lots of prevention programs that go on to try and increase awareness.

(I hope that made some sense...I just woke up.)

 

[chris250]

Being that im asian - the fish, rice thing does work for me when Im dieting...I seem to handle carbs pretty well to, (white rice) doesnt seem to effect me in a negative way... Talipia is the fish I like to eat when im in hardcore dieting mode...

Pretty interesting stuff

chris

 

[gridlock]

Being that im asian - the fish, rice thing does work for me when Im dieting...I seem to handle carbs pretty well to, (white rice) doesnt seem to effect me in a negative way... Talipia is the fish I like to eat when im in hardcore dieting mode...

Pretty interesting stuff

chris

This could be true. Very true. I went back to the bahamas last week and while I was there I was just eating fish and local vegetables.

Of course its going to make me look better than how I look in the UK as trash inevitably sneaks into my diet here but it actually made me feel so much more better. My sleep was better and I had a lot more energy aswell.

But overall, I look a lot fuller, leaner and in better shape just from a week of it.

plus the sun was a bonus

 

[eroc613]

Are we talking about genetics again?

 

[gtj220]

I'm thinking a strict veggie diet would lack essential fatty acids thus a person who is not as healthy. Unless they ate alot of nuts.

 

[Thewhite9t]

1. I notice that vegetarians are the sickliest people I know. I believe meat is absolutely necessary to survive and live well without a true deficiency. My rationale is that, because we have incisors, are bodies must be meant to chew, swallow, and digest flesh of animals. Would you agree with this?

3. What would have been the likelihood that a human would eat MOSTLY flesh? We -hunted- primarily, no? Would we have even seeked veggies and oats etc? What were portions mostly like?

This was assumed to happen a lot.

I believe this is the reason that humans have various processes that allow them survive w/o carbs hence the reason why people are able to do ketosis dieting.

 

[mersanary]

This is a very interesting thread. Nutrition is what the body's made out of and people react differently to different foods. Does anyone have any studies that show that some ethnicities are more responsive to certain foods, and not just that those foods were prominent in their diets back in the day? i.e North American natives respond better to a protein source from fish then one from whey because of so and so receptors and/or hereditary traits.

 

[tkav1980]

there is a good reason humans eat meat, and in pre historic days mostly meat with little else. the amount of nutrients you get from meat is much greater per ounce that veggies. therefore you need to eat more veggies to get the same amount of nutrients out of them. this causes a problem with anything that wants to evolve a large brain. the two largest egergy requirements in the body are the digestive system and the brain. generally herbavores have huge guts and little brains. most of the energy they consume is used to break down and process an energy poor fuel source.
enter the carnivores.
consuming a calorie and nutrient dense food allows digestion to take up much less energy than plants. this allows for more energy to be available for cognitive function. notice that most carnivores are also predaters? well if your going to hunt your food its generally a good idea to be smarter than your food. to feed a bigt brain you need to be able to get a maximum amount of nutrients out of minimal quantities.
here come the humans.

at some point in history someone had an accident. they left the fresh kill too close to the camp fire and it cooked. being cavemen they ate it anyway. 2 things happened. first it tasted much better than raw meat. second, cooking begins to break down the food a little. you actualy extract more nutrients from meat you digest after its been cooked. well more nutrients = able to support a bigger brain. this leads to another step in evolution which leads from homonus- whatever, to modern humans.
the whole thing about meat is that its easier for your body to process and get high amounts of nutrients and calories in relation to how much energy is spent during that process. freeing up some of this energy that would have been spent on digestion allows you brain to use it.

 

[Gunsmith]

I work with a dumbshit that is a veggian or vegitarian or what the hell ever , he insist that humans were never meant to eat meat and thats the reason that we have unhealthy people now days (despite that humans are steadly living longer) he is always on my ass about eating so much meat (of which I get at least 500g protine a day).
I on the other hand think that humans are mostly desgined to eat meat , we are hunters , our eyes are in the front , we have "dextile" if thats a word , hands to grasp our game , we have teeth desgines to rip and chew meat and most people have the reflex to "chase" when somthing or sombody runs away which is a natural predator reflex.

your right about people looking "sick" when they eat only vegitables ,I think that some sort of protine source is needed to provide a substancial amout of protine to support our brains.

But what about Gorrilas and some of the other great apes that eat mostly vegitables with very little meat in compairison to humans , their strength in un matched by any man pound for pound and their inteligance is higher that that of alot of humans

 

[Stewie Griffon]

I work with a dumbshit that is a veggian or vegitarian or what the hell ever , he insist that humans were never meant to eat meat and thats the reason that we have unhealthy people now days (despite that humans are steadly living longer) he is always on my ass about eating so much meat (of which I get at least 500g protine a day).
I on the other hand think that humans are mostly desgined to eat meat , we are hunters , our eyes are in the front , we have "dextile" if thats a word , hands to grasp our game , we have teeth desgines to rip and chew meat and most people have the reflex to "chase" when somthing or sombody runs away which is a natural predator reflex.

your right about people looking "sick" when they eat only vegitables ,I think that some sort of protine source is needed to provide a substancial amout of protine to support our brains.

But what about Gorrilas and some of the other great apes that eat mostly vegitables with very little meat in compairison to humans , their strength in un matched by any man pound for pound and their inteligance is higher that that of alot of humans

people here are mentioning incisors as a bit of proof human are meant to eat meat - this is valid. even better proof however is evidenced in our fossil records during evolution.

you talk of gorillas eating no meat and they are very strong, this is true but is completely invalid to compare this to humans. look at a gorilla - they look fat - huge guts. they are not fat, they have a VERY long small intestine, about 5 times longer than ours - this means they are designed to injest tons of plant material, and they are able to digest it and absorb nutrients from it that humans cannot. this is because they have a much longer small intestine.

our primitive ancestors also had big guts/long intestines; but then something happened. we left the trees, we began to walk upright, make very primitive tools for hunting - in other words we began to eat meat. well meat is great, it is very calorie dense compared to plant material, it is very nutrient dense. so instead of 'grazing' and 'foraging' all day long on plant material, we could eat a huge protein meal and have free time. time to develop more primitive tools, primitive language.

the coolest part of all this is: at the time when human began to injest meat - 2 major changes happened in our bodies

1: the size of our cranium tripled - yes tripled in size - we grew large brains. all the extra calories from meat fueled the growth of our large brains

2: the length of our small intestine, and the size of the surrounding rib cage shrank dramatically

these 2 facts are known, not conjecture, they did occur. humans are MEANT to injest animal material. the reason why we have large brains is because we ate meat. to not eat meat is counter-evolutionary

 

[The Booger]

Definitely agree on the meat part. I had a vegetarian in my biology class and she questioned my professor about it, he blew her mind when he started describing why we know we're supposed to be meat eaters, how we're designed, etc. She shut up pretty quickly.

Wasn't it the idea that we started eating shell fish the reason our craniums and brains started growing so fast? Thought I read that someplace....

The testosterone production over the course of human history is a great question. One I never thought of before. Too bad I wasn't still in college, I would ask my professors about that.