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Front Loading Anabolics =Will You Get Receptor Downregulation?

omoplata

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One of my powerlifter buddies made a strange remark today that stuck with me. He will compete in 20 weeks and has just started his cycle. He says his dose is like 750 mg but for the first 6 weeks he will be on 1.25 grams. Then for the remaining 14 weeks he will go down to the 750 he normally runs. I was like "what's the point?" and he goes:

"I want to increase my poundages ASAP and get over the initial hump as soon as I can. Then over the remaining 14 weeks, I will perfect the details; the technique, the adjustment of bodyweight and nurse any injuries that may flare up. If I can go from where I am now to 90% of my weights slowly in like 12 weeks instead of 6, I wıll burn out more. I wanna hit it hard from the get-go and be done with the major power gain right away. That's how I always done it"

He claims this does not result in receptor downregulation or de-sensitization of any kind that he can feel.

Now I cannot comment on the validity of this for powerlifting because I know so little about that sport. But how about the idea that you will not be de-sensitized? Do you guys think that having run the 1.25 grams for 6 weeks will make you less reponsive to 750 grams later on -compared to if you ran 750 all along?
 

Stonewall58

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One of my powerlifter buddies made a strange remark today that stuck with me. He will compete in 20 weeks and has just started his cycle. He says his dose is like 750 mg but for the first 6 weeks he will be on 1.25 grams. Then for the remaining 14 weeks he will go down to the 750 he normally runs. I was like "what's the point?" and he goes:

"I want to increase my poundages ASAP and get over the initial hump as soon as I can. Then over the remaining 14 weeks, I will perfect the details; the technique, the adjustment of bodyweight and nurse any injuries that may flare up. If I can go from where I am now to 90% of my weights slowly in like 12 weeks instead of 6, I wıll burn out more. I wanna hit it hard from the get-go and be done with the major power gain right away. That's how I always done it"

He claims this does not result in receptor downregulation or de-sensitization of any kind that he can feel.

Now I cannot comment on the validity of this for powerlifting because I know so little about that sport. But how about the idea that you will not be de-sensitized? Do you guys think that having run the 1.25 grams for 6 weeks will make you less reponsive to 750 grams later on -compared to if you ran 750 all along?
Is he not adding in anything else as he drops the test? His protocol is far from ideal, especially Bc you always want to be peaking for an event.
to me it’s a waste of drug to front load especially Bc most the effects in the beginning are gonna be the nervous system priming itself. To answer your question, yes, he already blew his load on reving the CNS/adrenal system with the higher dose.
 

omoplata

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Is he not adding in anything else as he drops the test? His protocol is far from ideal, especially Bc you always want to be peaking for an event.
to me it’s a waste of drug to front load especially Bc most the effects in the beginning are gonna be the nervous system priming itself. To answer your question, yes, he already blew his load on reving the CNS/adrenal system with the higher dose.
Not like he is dropping the test. He reduces dosages across the board. Test is still in there
 

cmryan

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Don’t steroids upregulate androgen receptors
Sure thought so.

 

Stonewall58

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Not like he is dropping the test. He reduces dosages across the board. Test is still in there
Since I don’t know much about the guy I can only assume it’s just how he is used to training. It’s far from ideal. Let’s say he did a typical west side PW training cycle..he would have 5 4 week training blasts using the conjugated periodization system. 3 wks hard followed by a 1 wk deload then on to the next phase. I have help many pw in the past incorporate this system. Typically, would be a base of Test E then for each 3 wk period blast short acting esters/orals. Reason being is to let the cns and adrenal system recover. Drugs would be based on the lifters ability to make weight and also which training mini cycle they were on. But every new 3 wk blast, drugs are increased. I have never met a serious PL decrease dosages as the meet drew near. I’d say your friend is leaving a ton left in the tank by staying in his old habits. Nobody should be going into a meet where the end phase is nursing an injury that flares up.
Also, it’s not about receptor downregulation or up-regulation when it comes to dosages during a cycle. As the cycle prolongs, it comes down to the adrenal system down regulation. The longer you’re on, the more it is down-regulated (adrenals), thus requiring more drug to stimulate the cns/muscle gain. Some ppl don’t have a big problem with that, some have huge problems with that downregulation. Ever read up on the old Russian studies and their OLY athletes? A, B, and C athletes.. It’s a good read, but last I read it been about 15 years lol I’m sure someone has them.
 

Stonewall58

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Sure thought so.

Androgen up regulation doesn’t mean anything if your adrenal system downregulates. The adrenal system is the spark, androgens are the gasoline. Starting at too high of a dose, for the majority will simply overtax the adrenals for when his friend needs a primed nervous system.
 

cmryan

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Androgen up regulation doesn’t mean anything if your adrenal system downregulates. The adrenal system is the spark, androgens are the gasoline. Starting at too high of a dose, for the majority will simply overtax the adrenals for when his friend needs a primed nervous system.
I tend to think you're on the money with your post. At the very least, our outcomes are almost always much too complicated to be dictated by one single system. And apologies for quickly glossing over that in my post. I was just replying to the earlier post about AR up-regulation, but I should have added some nuance.
 

Stonewall58

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I tend to think you're on the money with your post. At the very least, our outcomes are almost always much too complicated to be dictated by one single system. And apologies for quickly glossing over that in my post. I was just replying to the earlier post about AR up-regulation, but I should have added some nuance.
It’s all good! Throwing that info in there is good for ppl reading this and wrapping their head around what’s going on in the body.
 

juggy38

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As for strength that doesn’t make sense, I’d want my highest doses at the meet.

also from a hypertrophic view, you can only turn over so much tissues as genetics allow. If 750mg maxes out your rate of anabolism, 1.5g won’t speed the process up. It will only push the upper limit higher, but that takes time
 

Fa Seeshus

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Going kamikaze out the gate seems like a recipe for tendon injury, but hey, if he has done this a bunch and it works for him ...
 

VictorBlack

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The myth of Androgen Receptor Downregulation



now the problem with Oral Front Loading ?

1, Why ?

Look at how long Nandrolone Deconate takes to take effect..

2021-04-10_6-17-44.png


Why using Orals for a " fast start" to a Cycle is
folly

Nandrolone Decanoate is probably the longest acting AAS that anyone here will ever use

Methylated Oral cause Stess

Why would we want to deliberately cause stress right out the gate on day 1 ?

I want long relentless progression I want to be able to continue to progress for as long as possible

Why ?

Nandrolone Decanoates shift in Nitrogen Retention ?

3 days and that is the slowest Ester you will likely ever use

Why create " stress" out the gate IMO you are better off waiting 3 days..
 

VictorBlack

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Androgen up regulation doesn’t mean anything if your adrenal system downregulates. The adrenal system is the spark, androgens are the gasoline. Starting at too high of a dose, for the majority will simply overtax the adrenals for when his friend needs a primed nervous system.

Adrenal fatigue is the notion that our adrenal glands get overworked by stress and stop producing the hormones we need, including cortisol. It's a medical myth. You may have a legitimate health issue, but it's definitely not adrenal fatigue,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4997656/

Androgen Receptors don't downregulate in the Presence of Androgens - Myth

Adrenal fatigue is also a myth

 

MR. BMJ

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The myth of Androgen Receptor Downregulation



now the problem with Oral Front Loading ?

1, Why ?

Look at how long Nandrolone Deconate takes to take effect..

View attachment 129988


Why using Orals for a " fast start" to a Cycle is
folly

Nandrolone Decanoate is probably the longest acting AAS that anyone here will ever use

Methylated Oral cause Stess

Why would we want to deliberately cause stress right out the gate on day 1 ?

I want long relentless progression I want to be able to continue to progress for as long as possible

Why ?

Nandrolone Decanoates shift in Nitrogen Retention ?

3 days and that is the slowest Ester you will likely ever use

Why create " stress" out the gate IMO you are better off waiting 3 days..

Is this from the Minto study?
 

Stewie

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Adrenal fatigue is the notion that our adrenal glands get overworked by stress and stop producing the hormones we need, including cortisol. It's a medical myth. You may have a legitimate health issue, but it's definitely not adrenal fatigue,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4997656/

Androgen Receptors don't downregulate in the Presence of Androgens - Myth

Adrenal fatigue is also a myth


Very much agree on both. We've beat these two mystified fallacies to death on a few occasions over the years. Yet, it still gets regurgitated.


If individuals understood nuclear receptors are finite, and not fixed permanent structures. They'd comprehend like every other cell type, they go through a process of synthesis via template- mRNA/miRNA (formation) and degradation (catabolized) cell-cycle via ubiquitylation or otherwise known by the ubiquitin-proteasome system.

Sadly, the anti-intellectualism of cellular dynamics by the less than stellar armchair pseudoscientists has run-amuck for ages leading the naive to believe this phenomenon takes place. Trying to convince otherwise falls on deaf ears, sometimes.

This is fine, every aspect of life requires a learning curve.

Trying to convince homopathetics that adrenal fatigue is a farcical diagnosis generally turns into a mixture of -Appeal to ridicule with a twist of ad hominem.
 

VictorBlack

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Is this from the Minto study?

Dr Scott Howell Phd is an Androgen Researcher with a Phd in Androgen Toxicity

and IMO the worlds leading expert on Harm Reduction and he has personal use History

This video is a " summary" of all the available evidence we have on the subject

If you listen to his words he literally says as much

We never draw opinions on a single study rather ask the question

What does the total body of evidence have to say on the subject ?

No identifiable limit to upregualtion has been observed in any data on the subject
 

MR. BMJ

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Dr Scott Howell Phd is an Androgen Researcher with a Phd in Androgen Toxicity

and IMO the worlds leading expert on Harm Reduction and he has personal use History

This video is a " summary" of all the available evidence we have on the subject

If you listen to his words he literally says as much

We never draw opinions on a single study rather ask the question

What does the total body of evidence have to say on the subject ?

No identifiable limit to upregualtion has been observed in any data on the subject
No, I agree, i've never been a fan of frontloading, whether through use or research....same with receptor downregulation and adrenal fatigue.

I was just asking if the graph/illustration in your prior post was from the Minto study:

 

VictorBlack

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No, I agree, i've never been a fan of frontloading, whether through use or research....same with receptor downregulation and adrenal fatigue.

I was just asking if the graph/illustration in your prior post was from the Minto study:

I am fairly certain its from

Studies on the Nitrogen Balance in the Human during Long‐term Treatment with Different Anabolic Agents under Strictly Standardized Conditions


A. SAARNE, L. BJERSTAF and B. EKMA

there are a few on this subject with the same 50mg dosage of Nandrolone and I am away from my office on the weekend
 

FrancisK

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