Getting more, out of less...

[Gravel]

Curious as to why so much Testosterone when the Male body produces 50-80mg per week? Wouldn't you be on the + side just using 100mg of Test E which would give you 70mg of test? You'd still be at your max Test wise.

Confused about the 50-80mg a week. The medical community views normal ranges anywhere from 250ng to 800ng (2.5 to 8). There are 20 year old men who have tested as high as 1800ng (obviously on a good day..LOL). I also prefer to keep my levels on the above average side; just feels better. Blood work seems to be fine!

 

[hemipower]

Curious as to why so much Testosterone when the Male body produces 50-80mg per week? Wouldn't you be on the + side just using 100mg of Test E which would give you 70mg of test? You'd still be at your max Test wise.

I was prescribed 200mg a week which got me to about 800-900 ng/dL and I wanted to be at the TOP end of "normal" so bumped up to 250mg a week (split into 2 shots of 125mg) which took me to 1100 ng/dL which is like the levels of a 20-25 yr old. I figure if I am going to do it, I want it to be worth doing. Taking 100mg of test I would probably be somewhere around 500 ng/dL which YES that is in normal range but after years of over use at 800-1000mg a week...I don't even feel OK until about 800 ng/dL and not till about 1100-1200 do I feel like I think I should.

Confused about the 50-80mg a week. The medical community views normal ranges anywhere from 250ng to 800ng (2.5 to 8). There are 20 year old men who have tested as high as 1800ng (obviously on a good day..LOL). I also prefer to keep my levels on the above average side; just feels better. Blood work seems to be fine!

Part of the problem with this "average" they use also...over the past 100 years the avg test level has DROPPED significantly due to pollutants and chemicals and stress and etc! In fact, in the caveman days I bet their test levels were about 2500 ng/dL or so! Read an article about this, I will try and find it after work today...but it said that caveman's test levels were FAR higher than those of today.

 

[Cerberus777]

I always enjoy reading your perspective. Thankyou

 

[Sean.]

Confused about the 50-80mg a week. The medical community views normal ranges anywhere from 250ng to 800ng (2.5 to 8). There are 20 year old men who have tested as high as 1800ng (obviously on a good day..LOL). I also prefer to keep my levels on the above average side; just feels better. Blood work seems to be fine!

lol, I see my confusion 50 - 80mg per week. I see now that it must be 5-8mg per day, my bad. I haven't looked up AAS for a long while. Do you find yourself bloated at all?

Originally Posted by Sean.
Curious as to why so much Testosterone when the Male body produces 50-80mg per week? Wouldn't you be on the + side just using 100mg of Test E which would give you 70mg of test? You'd still be at your max Test wise.

I was prescribed 200mg a week which got me to about 800-900 ng/dL and I wanted to be at the TOP end of "normal" so bumped up to 250mg a week (split into 2 shots of 125mg) which took me to 1100 ng/dL which is like the levels of a 20-25 yr old. I figure if I am going to do it, I want it to be worth doing. Taking 100mg of test I would probably be somewhere around 500 ng/dL which YES that is in normal range but after years of over use at 800-1000mg a week...I don't even feel OK until about 800 ng/dL and not till about 1100-1200 do I feel like I think I should.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravel
Confused about the 50-80mg a week. The medical community views normal ranges anywhere from 250ng to 800ng (2.5 to 8). There are 20 year old men who have tested as high as 1800ng (obviously on a good day..LOL). I also prefer to keep my levels on the above average side; just feels better. Blood work seems to be fine!

Part of the problem with this "average" they use also...over the past 100 years the avg test level has DROPPED significantly due to pollutants and chemicals and stress and etc! In fact, in the caveman days I bet their test levels were about 2500 ng/dL or so! Read an article about this, I will try and find it after work today...but it said that caveman's test levels were FAR higher than those of today.

Very interesting, I was under the impression that if you take 7mg of Test per day then your levels would be 700ng/dl, but I see that it doesn't matter. 7mg of Test isn't going to produce 700ng/dl in the blood work for everybody. I hope that made sense? Good thread!

 

[hemipower]

No I don't find I am bloated on 200-250mg test. I stay on exemestane at 12.5mg 4 days a week to keep estro slightly suppressed (as it was only slightly over elevated on my last blood work). Now if I were on 500-800mg test I would bloat up and need more AI.

On your estimates...it's not always the same for everyone. I have seen people take 150mg test a week and have 900ng/dL levels total test! And others at 200mg a week show 800. It's individual to some degree but time that the shot is given and the blood is drawn also can make a significant difference.

Glad you enjoy the topic/thread!

 

[Gravel]

I was prescribed 200mg a week which got me to about 800-900 ng/dL and I wanted to be at the TOP end of "normal" so bumped up to 250mg a week (split into 2 shots of 125mg) which took me to 1100 ng/dL which is like the levels of a 20-25 yr old. I figure if I am going to do it, I want it to be worth doing. Taking 100mg of test I would probably be somewhere around 500 ng/dL which YES that is in normal range but after years of over use at 800-1000mg a week...I don't even feel OK until about 800 ng/dL and not till about 1100-1200 do I feel like I think I should.



Part of the problem with this "average" they use also...over the past 100 years the avg test level has DROPPED significantly due to pollutants and chemicals and stress and etc! In fact, in the caveman days I bet their test levels were about 2500 ng/dL or so! Read an article about this, I will try and find it after work today...but it said that caveman's test levels were FAR higher than those of today.

I do believe your correct on our ancestors; Abraham (Old Testament) was having children at the age of 100. Imagine his test levels at 20.

 

[hemipower]

I do believe your correct on our ancestors; Abraham (Old Testament) was having children at the age of 100. Imagine his test levels at 20.

Ya know, I never even thought to look for biblical evidence of this...but this would hint at potentially higher test levels!

As well as Moses died at 120 and was said to still be strong in body and mind.

Also Noah was over 100 when he had his last child and build the ark after this...which supposedly took nearly 100 years? Now, I don't think they counted years the same as we do though...especially since Noah was said to be nearly 500 years old at his death? Some of these details may be a bit rough...my memory isn't that sharp hahaa.
Anyway - interesting thought provoking stuff bud! Thanks!

 

[KWADZ]

Thanks for the great read im turning 46 in Dec and ive ran cycles since i was 21. There was a period of 5-7 yrs where I never came off. I was 275 @ 6% now im 233 this morning and still 5.7% just had my Bf done last week.

 

[hemipower]

Thanks for the great read im turning 46 in Dec and ive ran cycles since i was 21. There was a period of 5-7 yrs where I never came off. I was 275 @ 6% now im 233 this morning and still 5.7% just had my Bf done last week.

Nice! My heaviest was 250 lbs but bfat was about 12% I would say...ox strong...I cycled off and on from about 19 yrs old...never off more than 10 months in about 15 yrs. Currently down to about 230 at 10% fat I would guess. I plan to get LEAN again starting in Feb. I'd like to stay around 220 lbs though. I feel SMALL under 215 lbs. But this will be done mainly with diet, test replacement dose, masteron, low dose gh. Might swap to half crossfit training and half hypertrophy/bodybuilding training...worked very well last year.

So, at this point are you doing HRT doses? gh? Peptides? How has your diet/training changed to stay lean yet keep some mass?

 

[hemipower]

Long time no update...and here is why: I bumped test up a bit dosage wise for 2 months with some deca hoping to regain some thickness and heal my joints up...for the most part it did as planned...I took a bit of eq and win for another month or so and once again came to the conclusion, that the only things I NEED are test at high hrt doses, ONE of primo/mast/var (at a time) and gh/peps. I'm NOT a bodybuilder anymore and need to come to terms with it...again.

Health and functionality are more important than big weights and wearing XXL shirts for me at this point. 2/3 of my workouts are now functional/Crossfit style and I kick my ass 4-5 times a week!

So, currently back down to 250 test, 200 primo (might go to 300) split in 2-3 pins weekly and 25 prov split in am/pm (12.5 each). Feel GREAT again! Moderation really is KEY! Also started a great OTC anti-E recently that also has something in it to negate water retention and dropped the exem. About to drop the prov soon also.

I have leaned from 235 lbs this holiday season, to currently 217-218 lbs and look/perform better than I have in a couple of years. Body fat back in the single digits and stable moods. Sleeping well. I'd like to drop a couple more lbs of fat and then maintain for the long haul...

If done properly, you CAN get more out of less...no, I am not 250 lbs anymore and I don't lift nearly as heavy as I once did...BUT I feel SO much better on 1/3 of what I once routinely took...worth it to me.

Diet wise, still somewhat doing a diet loosely based on paleo/Mountaindog combo with a cheat day in there...and recently read an article about diet based on biorhythm dieting...where day starts with high protein and fats...and day ends with carbs, low fat, high protein. A few days in and energy is better and feel fuller. I look forward to seeing where this goes, as I have for a long time done the opposite. Carbs for breakfast and PWO only, none for dinner totaling about 100-150g a day...higher carbs (250-300g a day) all weekend in carb cycle fashion.

 

[sculptone82]

Great read man, thank you

 

[mooch2321]

Long time no update...and here is why: I bumped test up a bit dosage wise for 2 months with some deca hoping to regain some thickness and heal my joints up...for the most part it did as planned...I took a bit of eq and win for another month or so and once again came to the conclusion, that the only things I NEED are test at high hrt doses, ONE of primo/mast/var (at a time) and gh/peps. I'm NOT a bodybuilder anymore and need to come to terms with it...again.

Health and functionality are more important than big weights and wearing XXL shirts for me at this point. 2/3 of my workouts are now functional/Crossfit style and I kick my ass 4-5 times a week!

So, currently back down to 250 test, 200 primo (might go to 300) split in 2-3 pins weekly and 25 prov split in am/pm (12.5 each). Feel GREAT again! Moderation really is KEY! Also started a great OTC anti-E recently that also has something in it to negate water retention and dropped the exem. About to drop the prov soon also.

I have leaned from 235 lbs this holiday season, to currently 217-218 lbs and look/perform better than I have in a couple of years. Body fat back in the single digits and stable moods. Sleeping well. I'd like to drop a couple more lbs of fat and then maintain for the long haul...

If done properly, you CAN get more out of less...no, I am not 250 lbs anymore and I don't lift nearly as heavy as I once did...BUT I feel SO much better on 1/3 of what I once routinely took...worth it to me.

Diet wise, still somewhat doing a diet loosely based on paleo/Mountaindog combo with a cheat day in there...and recently read an article about diet based on biorhythm dieting...where day starts with high protein and fats...and day ends with carbs, low fat, high protein. A few days in and energy is better and feel fuller. I look forward to seeing where this goes, as I have for a long time done the opposite. Carbs for breakfast and PWO only, none for dinner totaling about 100-150g a day...higher carbs (250-300g a day) all weekend in carb cycle fashion.

what up bro, what do you think about leaving that deca in long term. Ive been doing 300mgs of test a week and 100mgs deca. Im a little leary about the deca after reading dr. g's thread. His first response talked about the cumulative effects of deca.

 

[hemipower]

what up bro, what do you think about leaving that deca in long term. Ive been doing 300mgs of test a week and 100mgs deca. Im a little leary about the deca after reading dr. g's thread. His first response talked about the cumulative effects of deca.

ONLY things I feel are ok long term are test at hrt levels and gh...Even at lower doses I personally would limit deca to 20 weeks.

 

[Gravel]

ONLY things I feel are ok long term are test at hrt levels and gh...Even at lower doses I personally would limit deca to 20 weeks.

Glad to have you back! What do you mean your not a bodybuilder any more? I pretty much just use HRT and research peptides but I feel I still progress; maybe not bigger but better. How does that sound? I am done with Deca; I tried it a while back and I was ordering caber in a matter of 6 weeks. I believe I used it for so long and so many years my body just can't defend itself from the sides any more.

I am thinking about researching Ostarine; whats your feelings on that?

 

[hemipower]

Glad to have you back! What do you mean your not a bodybuilder any more? I pretty much just use HRT and research peptides but I feel I still progress; maybe not bigger but better. How does that sound? I am done with Deca; I tried it a while back and I was ordering caber in a matter of 6 weeks. I believe I used it for so long and so many years my body just can't defend itself from the sides any more.

I am thinking about researching Ostarine; whats your feelings on that?

Thanks! By, not a BBer anymore, I have a different mindset, I mean that I no longer compete and have NO need to ruin my health with orals and high dose injects continuously. Not to mention, I'm sick of taking all kinds of stuff and wondering why I feel a certain way, what sides are from what, what is going on internally that blood tests alude to but don't necessarily spell out. SO much negativity around deca...additionally RBCs climb high on eq...tren over 150mg a week makes me miserable with indigestion and night sweats and paranoia/agitation, orals and liver toxicity is bad but squashed HDL levels is pretty concerning also...AND hard to say WHAT you are getting from UGLs to be honest...it's labeled xyz at 200mg but its REALLY abc at 160mg...and impurity riddled at that. Not to say that ANY sponsor here is bad...mistakes happen more often when quality control isn't the same as HG products. Very frightening. And, to be honest, there is more to life than the gym and how you fill your shirt out. Admittedly it's still a priority in my life...but there are other things.

Fitness priorities to me are functional strength, health, and maintaining what I can on mainly HRT with an occasional aas sprinkled in (var, mast, primo are what I am limiting to from here on)...I had to get an accountability partner to hold me to this, as I still have that occasional "itch" to throw in others or double and triple doses to get strength back up and/or thickness. At just over 5'9" I have been 250 lbs before and ox strong...pretty smooth though. Normally winters for me are at 235 lbs looking much better than the 250 of yrs ago...and summers are around 220 lbs. But at this point even the fluctuations will be coming to a close. I look my best/maintainable at pretty lean 218...so I won't allow myself to slip much over 225 this year in the "cold" season...no offseason anymore because I don't compete and I need to even rid my vocabulary of those terms to keep my mindset right.

I tried Ostarine short term and I was also on trt of course. I am not certain that it did much for me to be honest. I would consider trying it again based on how it was created and research but need to be more certain of the purity...I think it has a lot of merit and potential for sure. In combination with test it seems to me like it would act as a recomposition aid and make trt perform like higher test without aromitization or the typical sides associated with higher dose test.

 

[Gravel]

Thanks! By, not a BBer anymore, I have a different mindset, I mean that I no longer compete and have NO need to ruin my health with orals and high dose injects continuously. Not to mention, I'm sick of taking all kinds of stuff and wondering why I feel a certain way, what sides are from what, what is going on internally that blood tests alude to but don't necessarily spell out. SO much negativity around deca...additionally RBCs climb high on eq...tren over 150mg a week makes me miserable with indigestion and night sweats and paranoia/agitation, orals and liver toxicity is bad but squashed HDL levels is pretty concerning also...AND hard to say WHAT you are getting from UGLs to be honest...it's labeled xyz at 200mg but its REALLY abc at 160mg...and impurity riddled at that. Not to say that ANY sponsor here is bad...mistakes happen more often when quality control isn't the same as HG products. Very frightening. And, to be honest, there is more to life than the gym and how you fill your shirt out. Admittedly it's still a priority in my life...but there are other things.

Fitness priorities to me are functional strength, health, and maintaining what I can on mainly HRT with an occasional aas sprinkled in (var, mast, primo are what I am limiting to from here on)...I had to get an accountability partner to hold me to this, as I still have that occasional "itch" to throw in others or double and triple doses to get strength back up and/or thickness. At just over 5'9" I have been 250 lbs before and ox strong...pretty smooth though. Normally winters for me are at 235 lbs looking much better than the 250 of yrs ago...and summers are around 220 lbs. But at this point even the fluctuations will be coming to a close. I look my best/maintainable at pretty lean 218...so I won't allow myself to slip much over 225 this year in the "cold" season...no offseason anymore because I don't compete and I need to even rid my vocabulary of those terms to keep my mindset right.

I tried Ostarine short term and I was also on trt of course. I am not certain that it did much for me to be honest. I would consider trying it again based on how it was created and research but need to be more certain of the purity...I think it has a lot of merit and potential for sure. In combination with test it seems to me like it would act as a recomposition aid and make trt perform like higher test without aromitization or the typical sides associated with higher dose test.

Sounds like you got things squared away; its tough not adding a few things now and then but in the long run it just sets you back. I'm going to give Ergo's Ostarine a try and see whats happens. Keep posting..your a wealth of knowledge!

 

[Macleod644]

I've always been curious about masteron in the way that you stated. Great read tho bro, thanks hemi

 

[hemipower]

Sounds like you got things squared away; its tough not adding a few things now and then but in the long run it just sets you back. I'm going to give Ergo's Ostarine a try and see whats happens. Keep posting..your a wealth of knowledge!

I've always been curious about masteron in the way that you stated. Great read tho bro, thanks hemi

Thanks guys...there are a ton of guys on here that know 10x what I do and I have learned a lot here too, but I try to keep on top of research...to my knowledge this is the ONLY body I will ever get, and despite how I evidently tried to ruin it for years, at this point I want the best physique I can get without getting things way outta whack. Looking jacked but killing yourself and damaging your internals to show off your externals...overrated. Besides, I remember being "big" at 250 lbs and strong and the ONLY people it impressed were other GUYS...not my target crowd but lean down to single digit body fat and then the attention is from the LADIES!

Moderation is key...err on the side of under dosing even. I read all this about primo not being effective under 600mg a week. Well...I do just FINE at 200-300 a week! And feel great. Keep in mind that I'm only about 216-218 lbs now though...the 600mg may have been intended for those of us still 250-280 lbs. I'm a huge proponent for finding an effective dose, and not using more...law of diminishing returns...side effects continue upward almost linearly BUT positive effects do not.

Gravel let us know how the Osta course goes...note that most studies were done at 3mg a day if I remember correctly. I don't see the need for more than about 15mg a day with that in mind...especially with the unknowns since this is still relatively new. Testing was done in 2008 or 9.

 

[Cerberus777]

Ive had the same approach for some time 225-250mg test week... but since getting Lyme disease i have been having issues with estrogen. I have lately have to use letro which i never needed under 5-600mg a week....so ive thought of dropping down to 75-100 test(what ever keeps E2 in range) and using 300mg primo a week. what are your thoughts?

Ps Ostarine is fun to 20mg...any higher and E2 and liver values go up a little.

 

[hemipower]

Ive had the same approach for some time 225-250mg test week... but since getting Lyme disease i have been having issues with estrogen. I have lately have to use letro which i never needed under 5-600mg a week....so ive thought of dropping down to 75-100 test(what ever keeps E2 in range) and using 300mg primo a week. what are your thoughts?

Wow letro is potent! Id think 100 test and 200-300 primo would be great to negate estro issues and look and feel great.