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HCG ed

path2greatness

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Nov 14, 2007
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I vaguely recall an article or post i read by Dr Crisler stating something to the effect of if it were more cost effective he would have guys on 250iu ed of hcg. Could I do this and bring my testicles back from being atrophied or is a periodic higher dose needed? If anybody else remembers reading this than would you please confirm it. I am having trouble finding it and I really dont want to be putting words in anyones mouth. Thanks! And an update on my bp thread-tried eq again at a lower amount and bp and lightheadedness returned so I think its just not for me.
 
A Writing By The Doc

Post Cycle Therapy
By
Dr. John Crisler

First, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath
as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT
Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) every third day, right from the beginning of the
cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. This is infinitely better than waiting until they have seriously
atrophied. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three
counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been
shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. This drives up estrogen levels, unopposed by
increased testosterone production. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then
inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic)
hypogonadism (which is temporary-hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn't enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more
days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn't mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL
THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say
they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG
is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. They have been shown
to represent the rate-limiting step in HPTA recovery (usually). LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone
production is limited by lack of testicular stimulation by same. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or
Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 50mg QD for Clomid, 20mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen
levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the
HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has
been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of
negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other).
BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM's (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator-the class of drugs
Nolvadex and Clomid belong to) at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like
to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures), BEFORE
beginning to taper down the SERM. Tapering the SERM is a must at the end, dropping the dose in half every five days
until you are taking only 12.5mg of Clomid, or 5mg of Nolvadex, before stopping.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG a week or so after the end of the cycle. Exactly how long you take it depends upon
the half-life of the AAS used, and their dosing. Otherwise, the testosterone production HCG induces will further inhibit
recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as
there is no such thing as a "bridge". Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean
you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can't "fool" the body-it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatizable steroids is a necessity) but it
ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the
risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this
also drives libido back into the ground-and we don't want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have
tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps -OC- :)
 
"In fact, I wouldn't mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL
THROUGH the cycle." Thanks bro, thats exactly the one I was talking about. I guess my question is, will this bring me back or is it just enough to prevent further testicular atrophy?
 
Path, I can only give you my own experience with "Bringing Back".
About 3 months into one of my early, too high a dose, not knowing WTF I was doing cycles I began the EOD, then went to ED shots of HCG at the dose Crisler said and it did bring the size back down there, BUT my sex drive was still down, and this is before I knew about other PCT chems. I knew about clomid and used it at the end of my cycle. I kept a good amount of my gains.
So, and I am guessing, if your asking about HCG with that protocol bringing you back while you're already into a cycle, yes the "Size" came back for me.
But ya know, everyones different.
 
so did you start your hcg protocol while still on or after you came off? What is your chosen pct regimen now?
 
250iu 2 x per week from 1st week is what the bro's that know are doing;)
500iu ed for 10 days post is what is recommended and is what works for pct.
 
I stayed on the "Cycle" for over 5 Months (I know, I know) ;)
I began 3 months in at 250IU Mon, Wed, Fri.
Then 2 weeks before the end, and 1 week after I went to 250IU ED.

But currently am doing 250IU 3 times a week from the begining, then will go to 500IU ED for the week after. Similar to what NW said.
 
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