©ALL CONTENT OF THIS WEBSITE IS COPYRIGHTED AND CANNOT BE REPRODUCED WITHOUT THE ADMINISTRATORS CONSENT 2002-2024
.gif "IP Gear")
Heart Problems and bodybuilding/Testosterone
- Thread starter cshort01
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2010
- Messages
- 513
I think the critical point DC was making can be summed up in the key findings, just before the LAST paragraph of the article:
"just like the Australians proved before, steroids are not as disastrous for the heart morphology as some agencies want you to believe;
the combination with growth hormone does however add considerable cardiovascular risks to steroid cycles; and
the deleterious effects wear off during wash out periods."
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2005
- Messages
- 75
Warlock, thanks for the advice, I'm taking NOW L-Carnitine but after reading what John said I will look into one with acetyl carnitine also...John do you have a certain brand you use?
I've also read most of Dr. Sinatra's book and he has some good info on several of these supplements.
I'm using Dr.'s Best Magnesium, it's chelated. I'll look into the taurate.
The Serracor NK I take is from AST Enzymes. It is expensive... hope it helps.
I've also read most of Dr. Sinatra's book and he has some good info on several of these supplements.
I'm using Dr.'s Best Magnesium, it's chelated. I'll look into the taurate.
The Serracor NK I take is from AST Enzymes. It is expensive... hope it helps.
Great, thanks.
Here you can read more about magnesium and the taurate form:
The best and worst forms of magnesium to take as a supplement - NaturalNews.com
Magnesium taurate -- Magnesium taurate is the best choice of magnesium supplement for people with cardiovascular issues, since it is known to prevent arrhythmias and guard the heart from damage caused by heart attacks. Magnesium taurate is easily absorbed (magnesium and taurine stabilize cell membranes together), and it contains no laxative properties.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2011
- Messages
- 13,167
Metabolic Cardiology?a Powerful Treatment for Congestive Heart Failure | Dr. Stephen Sinatra
In case you haven't seen that and while we are speaking about Dr. Sinatra.
In case you haven't seen that and while we are speaking about Dr. Sinatra.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 249
A few months ago i was about to have surgery for prostate cancer (it runs very high in my family) and when i was at the pre-op my ecg came back abnormal. They made me do a stress test with my cardiologist before they would operate on me. To make a long story short i have thickening of the left ventricle wall also. My EF is 60% and I'm on lisinopril also for high BP. But my doctor did tell me my heart is functioning at 100% that was great news. I wouldn't have known anything if it wasn't for the ecg. Right now im not on any androgens because of the PC. My last few PSA tests were 0. So good news all around so far. I hope all goes well with you too.
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/i/964/beverly-quadracarn-120-tab.htm
One of my favorite companies for liver pills too!
D
Deleted member 106824
Guest
Not sure if you saw my thread, but yours is essentially like a future post by me if I were to continue with gear http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...aas-lower-my-ejection-fraction-permanent.html mine is basically a smaller version of yours. 23, gear for 3 years, got an echo and EF was 50% and there was slight dilation.
I haven't had any shortness of breath though. Did they have you perform a stress test? No MRI?
I have always taken fish oil but recently that's been upped from 6g per day to 11g per day. I've already been taking 200mg coQ10 (though I stopped for a bit last year). And now additionally I'm taking the following daily: 1500mg Curcumin (with piperine), 3g acetyl L-Carnitine, 2-3g taurine, 1130mg Hawthorn Berry.
Basically the only thing on your list I don't take is ribose. I did look into it but unfortunately a lot of these studies for EF deal with people who's EF is 10-30%...maybe more applicable to you than me. My cardiologist wants to retest me in 6-12 months.
I never used any peptides but I did cycle on and off for 3 years ranging from 500mg-1500mg and too many orals unfortunately. Now I will only be on 125mg of TRT per week and I hope to get my EF back to 55-60%. My doctor didn't even mention meds doing that, she seems to think my issue is not too worrisome. I get very slight chest pressure here and there but never when exercising (I can do sprints and heavy leg workouts with no problem)...mostly just if lying down and sometimes it's on the right side as well so who knows. Do you have any chest pain or just the shortness of breath?
I haven't had any shortness of breath though. Did they have you perform a stress test? No MRI?
I have always taken fish oil but recently that's been upped from 6g per day to 11g per day. I've already been taking 200mg coQ10 (though I stopped for a bit last year). And now additionally I'm taking the following daily: 1500mg Curcumin (with piperine), 3g acetyl L-Carnitine, 2-3g taurine, 1130mg Hawthorn Berry.
Basically the only thing on your list I don't take is ribose. I did look into it but unfortunately a lot of these studies for EF deal with people who's EF is 10-30%...maybe more applicable to you than me. My cardiologist wants to retest me in 6-12 months.
I never used any peptides but I did cycle on and off for 3 years ranging from 500mg-1500mg and too many orals unfortunately. Now I will only be on 125mg of TRT per week and I hope to get my EF back to 55-60%. My doctor didn't even mention meds doing that, she seems to think my issue is not too worrisome. I get very slight chest pressure here and there but never when exercising (I can do sprints and heavy leg workouts with no problem)...mostly just if lying down and sometimes it's on the right side as well so who knows. Do you have any chest pain or just the shortness of breath?
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2003
- Messages
- 1,948
NotHuman:
My problems did not appear until I added the GH. They could have still been building but the GH seemed to be my trigger.
My problems did not appear until I added the GH. They could have still been building but the GH seemed to be my trigger.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2011
- Messages
- 13,167
I think my long term gh usage at minimum 5iu ED probably triggered my aneurysm as well. I have no proof but it's my guess based on all I've read.
How long were you on GH?
pesty4077
Moderator/ Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Staff member
Moderator
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 11,303
I been saying this on PM for years. Lots of you guys haven't even seen the long term effects on taking big amounts of AAS yet. I always say, you have to get off the AAS for periods of time, I include GH with that too. If you are on 3 months, take off 3 months, simple concept. Also, load up on supplements that help you when on a cycle. You can't keep taking big amounts of AAS without risking health. Like DC says and others, bloodwork is important too.
D
Deleted member 121863
Guest
Sorry to hear about your health issues but did you really think that dose/time would have no long term ill effects? Or you just didn`t think about it? It`s not really a shocker to me.
Could your issues have come from uncontrolled hypertension while on cycle? Also, do you think that the tren used played a role? Some guys like dexter jackson can juice for 20 years and still (appear to be) ok, makes me wonder if they;re invincible genetic freaks
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2012
- Messages
- 522
Hey bro my thoughts are with you and will hope for your full recovery soon, God bless you.
I wanted to tell you that a few weeks ago I was on my way to London on a business trip and found an interesting documentary of the BBC on the plane, which was about the effects of high red meat consumption and its effects on cardiovascular health. The documentary showed some recent studies (you can google for more info) have shown that even though it was thought that cardiovascular diseases were related to the saturated fat in red meet, this studies have showed that the problem comes from the lean tissue and not from the fat, specifically from something you are consuming as a supplement: L-carnitine
Read about it below... it might save your life.
All the best, the rain man
New study links L-carnitine in red meat to heart disease
POSTED APRIL 17, 2013, 1:53 PM
Daniel Pendick, Executive Editor, Harvard Men's Health Watch
Is red meat bad for your heart? A new study suggests it is, but not for the reasons you might expect.
There’s long been a perception—not necessarily backed by strong evidence—that eating steak, hamburger, lamb, and other red meat ups the risk of heart disease. The saturated fat and cholesterol they deliver have been cited as key culprits. A team from a half dozen U.S. medical centers says the offending ingredient is L-carnitine, a compound that is abundant in red meat.
According to this work, published online in the journal Nature Medicine, eating red meat delivers L-carnitine to bacteria that live in the human gut. These bacteria digest L-carnitine and turn it into a compound called trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO). In studies in mice, TMAO has been shown to cause atherosclerosis, the disease process that leads to cholesterol-clogged arteries. We know that clogged coronary arteries can lead to heart attacks.
So, case closed—don’t eat red meat? Sorry, nutritional science isn’t that simple.
“The studies of red meat and heart disease in humans are conflicting,” says Dr. Dariush Mozaffarian, associate professor of medicine at Harvard-affiliated Brigham and Women’s Hospital. “This new research was well-done and compelling, but it’s too early to decide that this molecule, TMAO, causes atherosclerosis in humans or that this is responsible for some of the associations of meat intake and risk.”
Dr. Mozaffarian, a cardiologist and epidemiologist, studies the health effects of dietary habits and other lifestyle factors in large populations. His team has previously pooled the findings of the best studies available on red meat and health and found that people who eat unprocessed red meat regularly have, at worst, only a slightly higher risk of developing heart disease. Unprocessed red meat includes virtually all fresh cuts of beef, pork, lamb, and the like.
“If you look at people who eat unprocessed red meat, there is a relatively weak association with heart disease,” Dr. Mozaffarian says. “It’s not protective—and healthier dietary choices exist—but major harms are also not seen.”
In the bigger picture, we do have pretty damning evidence about the harms of eating a particular type of meat. “Processed red meats—bacon, sausage, salami, deli meats—are associated with much higher risk of heart disease,” Dr. Mozaffarian says.
Research at the Harvard School of Public Health has shown that people who eat the most processed meats have a higher overall risk of death. The ultimate reason for this is not yet clear, says Dr. Mozaffarian, but it may be the huge doses of sodium delivered by all those low-fat deli sandwiches and salami-festooned platters.
And here comes other spoilers against the L-carnitine study: Processed meats generally contain less L-carnitine than does fresh red meat. Heart-healthy fish and chicken also contain L-carnitine, Dr. Mozaffarian points out—although five to 10 times less of it than red meat. “TMAO needs to be studied more in humans to understand the implications for public health,” Dr. Mozaffarian says. “This new research is very interesting but is not yet the final word.”
To further complicate matters, a study published online today in the Mayo Clinic Proceedings suggests that supplements of L-carnitine may help heart attack survivors reduce the chances of dying prematurely or reduce symptoms of angina (chest pain with exertion or stress).
L-carnitine supplements: “Think three times before taking”
There’s still a long way to go before we know the full story about L-carnitine and heart disease. Even so, the Nature Medicine report is very important, Mozaffarian says. It suggests that regularly eating red meat boosts the number of L-carnitine-loving bacteria in your gut. “It’s the best demonstration so far of two-way communication between ourselves and the bacteria in out gut: what we eat affects the bacteria, and what they do with what we eat can influence health.”
“Based on the Nature Medicine study, I’d be concerned about taking L-carnitine supplements,” Dr. Mozaffarian says. “There was no strong reason to take such supplements before the study, and now this well-done study suggests there may be harm. I would definitely think three times before taking an L-carnitine supplement.” The studies in the Mayo report were mostly small with short follow-up, and included only heart attack survivors.
Of course, there are reasons to avoid eating red meat that aren’t directly related to individual health. Cattle farming has devastating environmental effects, including production of greenhouse gases, water pollution, and deforestation. “Health effects in humans aside, red meat consumption is clearly bad for the health of our planet,” says Mozaffarian.
I wanted to tell you that a few weeks ago I was on my way to London on a business trip and found an interesting documentary of the BBC on the plane, which was about the effects of high red meat consumption and its effects on cardiovascular health. The documentary showed some recent studies (you can google for more info) have shown that even though it was thought that cardiovascular diseases were related to the saturated fat in red meet, this studies have showed that the problem comes from the lean tissue and not from the fat, specifically from something you are consuming as a supplement: L-carnitine
Read about it below... it might save your life.
All the best, the rain man
New study links L-carnitine in red meat to heart disease
POSTED APRIL 17, 2013, 1:53 PM
Daniel Pendick, Executive Editor, Harvard Men's Health Watch
Is red meat bad for your heart? A new study suggests it is, but not for the reasons you might expect.
There’s long been a perception—not necessarily backed by strong evidence—that eating steak, hamburger, lamb, and other red meat ups the risk of heart disease. The saturated fat and cholesterol they deliver have been cited as key culprits. A team from a half dozen U.S. medical centers says the offending ingredient is L-carnitine, a compound that is abundant in red meat.
According to this work, published online in the journal Nature Medicine, eating red meat delivers L-carnitine to bacteria that live in the human gut. These bacteria digest L-carnitine and turn it into a compound called trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO). In studies in mice, TMAO has been shown to cause atherosclerosis, the disease process that leads to cholesterol-clogged arteries. We know that clogged coronary arteries can lead to heart attacks.
So, case closed—don’t eat red meat? Sorry, nutritional science isn’t that simple.
“The studies of red meat and heart disease in humans are conflicting,” says Dr. Dariush Mozaffarian, associate professor of medicine at Harvard-affiliated Brigham and Women’s Hospital. “This new research was well-done and compelling, but it’s too early to decide that this molecule, TMAO, causes atherosclerosis in humans or that this is responsible for some of the associations of meat intake and risk.”
Dr. Mozaffarian, a cardiologist and epidemiologist, studies the health effects of dietary habits and other lifestyle factors in large populations. His team has previously pooled the findings of the best studies available on red meat and health and found that people who eat unprocessed red meat regularly have, at worst, only a slightly higher risk of developing heart disease. Unprocessed red meat includes virtually all fresh cuts of beef, pork, lamb, and the like.
“If you look at people who eat unprocessed red meat, there is a relatively weak association with heart disease,” Dr. Mozaffarian says. “It’s not protective—and healthier dietary choices exist—but major harms are also not seen.”
In the bigger picture, we do have pretty damning evidence about the harms of eating a particular type of meat. “Processed red meats—bacon, sausage, salami, deli meats—are associated with much higher risk of heart disease,” Dr. Mozaffarian says.
Research at the Harvard School of Public Health has shown that people who eat the most processed meats have a higher overall risk of death. The ultimate reason for this is not yet clear, says Dr. Mozaffarian, but it may be the huge doses of sodium delivered by all those low-fat deli sandwiches and salami-festooned platters.
And here comes other spoilers against the L-carnitine study: Processed meats generally contain less L-carnitine than does fresh red meat. Heart-healthy fish and chicken also contain L-carnitine, Dr. Mozaffarian points out—although five to 10 times less of it than red meat. “TMAO needs to be studied more in humans to understand the implications for public health,” Dr. Mozaffarian says. “This new research is very interesting but is not yet the final word.”
To further complicate matters, a study published online today in the Mayo Clinic Proceedings suggests that supplements of L-carnitine may help heart attack survivors reduce the chances of dying prematurely or reduce symptoms of angina (chest pain with exertion or stress).
L-carnitine supplements: “Think three times before taking”
There’s still a long way to go before we know the full story about L-carnitine and heart disease. Even so, the Nature Medicine report is very important, Mozaffarian says. It suggests that regularly eating red meat boosts the number of L-carnitine-loving bacteria in your gut. “It’s the best demonstration so far of two-way communication between ourselves and the bacteria in out gut: what we eat affects the bacteria, and what they do with what we eat can influence health.”
“Based on the Nature Medicine study, I’d be concerned about taking L-carnitine supplements,” Dr. Mozaffarian says. “There was no strong reason to take such supplements before the study, and now this well-done study suggests there may be harm. I would definitely think three times before taking an L-carnitine supplement.” The studies in the Mayo report were mostly small with short follow-up, and included only heart attack survivors.
Of course, there are reasons to avoid eating red meat that aren’t directly related to individual health. Cattle farming has devastating environmental effects, including production of greenhouse gases, water pollution, and deforestation. “Health effects in humans aside, red meat consumption is clearly bad for the health of our planet,” says Mozaffarian.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,197
...seems if you live fifty years you notice - everything at one time or another has been cited as good for you comes around and is bad for you. then they discover it's good for you again.
Study: No Link Between Testosterone, Heart Attack:
Latest Study Finds No Link Between Testosterone Supplements, Heart Attack ? WebMD
best and worst forms of magnesium:
The best and worst forms of magnesium to take as a supplement - NaturalNews.com
P.S.
everything in moderation, healthy common sense and a little luck will soon turn out to be the worst thing for you.
This information is not meant to diagnose or treat any medical issue and is for entertainment purposes only.
Study: No Link Between Testosterone, Heart Attack:
Latest Study Finds No Link Between Testosterone Supplements, Heart Attack ? WebMD
best and worst forms of magnesium:
The best and worst forms of magnesium to take as a supplement - NaturalNews.com
P.S.
everything in moderation, healthy common sense and a little luck will soon turn out to be the worst thing for you.
This information is not meant to diagnose or treat any medical issue and is for entertainment purposes only.
Attachments
HA, I'm not buying his concept. I eat meat to reduce global warming from the methane the aanimals produce. The vegetarians are just killing plants and our air quality! lol
Anyway, while its true l-carnitine is great for the heart, it can be bad for the arteries if not taken with probitotics and L-actyl carnitine. This guy needs to finish reading the other studies before making unjust conclusions on limited amounts of people. As above, I have stated before these 2 things are necessary to have for heart health as NAC is for oral AAS.
Stewie
Featured Member / Verified Customer
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
- Messages
- 5,178
That study has several flaws in it, and has been debunked.
Latest ?Red Meat Study? Doubly Flawed | The Alliance for Natural Health USA
D
Deleted member 106824
Guest
I never had high blood pressure on cycle, so no. The most it ever got up to was 130/85 for a very brief period.
As for tren, I only used it twice so I don't think so but who knows. I would more heavily suspect the orals I did. Dumb mistake but I did it because I kept getting underdosed gear and I knew at least the orals I was getting were legit (superdrol and the clones).
John, can you touch a little more on the probiotic aspect here? How exactly does it help and are we looking for specific types of probiotics? Also if we just take Acetyl L-Carnitine and not L-Carnitine do we need the probiotics?
I can get prescription VSL DS #3 ( **broken link removed** ) but I stopped taking it years ago because it never helped my Crohns.
Jasons1985
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2012
- Messages
- 819
Sorry to hear about your condition brother. Wish you all the best for a great recovery! Stay strong and do what you have to do!
Similar threads
Members online
- slesh
- Little Mike
- duckdodger2
- Growthman
- ergo
- Thick500
- EnhancedFatGrappler
- danieltx
- gib68sg
- MasteroniPepperoni
- Brahma
- systemfiles1
- rfire
- Bataille
- b-boy
- Westen
- MAD_SCIENTIST
- Earl
- timmy123
- sayonara
- Alzadosghost
- Blueballs
- Offroad32
- solarsentinel1
- biggie260
- Reno911
- Cerberus777
- micro2000
- Worldsfastestfatty
- AlexDavis43
- Vanilla Thunder
- mbuilder
- hard-hammer
- need4tren
- Campeon
- adpolice
- Bloodtrail
- iam2big4me
- ryanfoster0
- Piromanu87
- hawkmoon
- TheOtherOne55
- bigjim6775
- plsresmeihaveraygun
- hk55874
- Yousef12O2
- Supermanbody
- WeakFNG
- pieguy
- cm
Forum statistics
