Help me find a substitute for orals...

[fstr03svtcobra]

My stats are like this: 5'8.5" , true 8% bf, 220 lbs. I have acquired most of my mass on orals and some of it through slow, consistant gains with test.

But here is my problem: As much as I love orals, as we all know they are hard on the body and I since I want to keep gaining, I don't want to have to run dbol 5x a year lol (btw I have yet to do this, but gains are slowing).

So the obvious solution is to add in less harsh injectable compounds.
I am on NPP right now (less than two weeks in) and getting terrible prolactin sides (feels like I just busted a nut x10 all day long so in other words I am incredibly tired and lethargic). This is at a dose of 450 mg/week. I'm not a sissy, but I'm going to have to lower it because this is effecting my life too much. I am worried about running an effective dose of EQ because of the gaba stripping effects on the brain as well as the hemocrit issues it brings. I have not tried primo. Additionally, I have not tried tren, but I'm not dieting right now so I don't think that is important for this discussion. On the peptide side of things, I use igf1 lr3 and love it.

So my plan for the next year and half or so (planning on doing a show summer 2014) is to add mass with moderate amounts of combinations of drugs and try to minimize dbol/havoc/abomb runs to 3x per year. How does this look for an "example cycle" without the orals?

700-1000 mg test
350 mg npp
400 mg EQ
500 mg Primo
igf1 lr3 every other month

Will this be an effective cycle to grow on?

Also I'm thinking about going the low dose gh route. Some of my bbing friends have almost convinced me. I'm starting to think that 2-3-4 iu's ed might be much healthier than all the gear to get the same gains. It's annoying seeing other people on just 2iu's and 600 mg test growing faster than me on test/orals/npp ect. Any input on this?

Lastly, I have used mostly test prop. Another bodybuilder suggested that I should try cypionate or sustanon because it is better for mass. I told him that I thought test was test and he said that it's just different (in other words, he couldn't tell me why, but sust was better for mass). Any input on this? My reasoning for using mostly prop, was that I am sensitive to estrogen and don't want to get fat lol. Additionally, with prop you actually get "more" test per volume of oil.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Medic08]

Just use injectable orals or test suspension on workout days will be a nice substitute.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

Medic, Are injectible orals really that much easier on the body?

 

[nothuman]

Any less than 5iu gh is a waste of money for building muscle IMO

 

[MightyJohn]

Test Suspension....period:headbang:

 

[Bertucci]

anal.............

 

[Wesley Inman]

IGF very commonly causes lethargy and fatigue, have you considered that as a potential culprit??

If you think the issues is NPP, and you feel you need something for your Prolactin sides, why not just run Cabaser/Dostinex? .5mgs E3d would be sufficient.

Also why are you considering Primo?? It's a great product, but economically it just doesn't really make sense..and for mass, well it makes no sense in a bulker to be quite honest.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

IGF very commonly causes lethargy and fatigue, have you considered that as a potential culprit??

If you think the issues is NPP, and you feel you need something for your Prolactin sides, why not just run Cabaser/Dostinex? .5mgs E3d would be sufficient.

Also why are you considering Primo?? It's a great product, but economically it just doesn't really make sense..and for mass, well it makes no sense in a bulker to be quite honest.

Thanks for your reply.

Not on igf right now.

I made a thread a couple weeks ago about DA's (caber/prami) and decided that I didn't want to use them, but I may have to. When you run Cabaser at the .5mgs E3d do you feel bad or does it "cancel" out the negative prolactin feelings (leaving you feeling normal)?

Considering primo bc I have some and it's very clean. I have talked to many people who say legit primo at an effective dose is very beneficial.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

Any less than 5iu gh is a waste of money for building muscle IMO

Really? Lots of people have told me otherwise and I have personally seen what 2-3 iu's ed will do to someone after 6 months of use and it definitely changes the physique.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

anal.............

Typical frat douche comment (yeah I read the what do you do outside bbing thread)

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

Test Suspension....period:headbang:

Can you elaborate on why suspension is so great for adding mass?

 

[Wesley Inman]

Thanks for your reply.

Not on igf right now.

I made a thread a couple weeks ago about DA's (caber/prami) and decided that I didn't want to use them, but I may have to. When you run Cabaser at the .5mgs E3d do you feel bad or does it "cancel" out the negative prolactin feelings (leaving you feeling normal)?

Considering primo bc I have some and it's very clean. I have talked to many people who say legit primo at an effective dose is very beneficial.

Increases and high levels in Prolactin are seen in the form of puffy nipples and lactating milk from your nipples..Cabaser will eliminate this from happening. You really won't feel it, it just reduces these issues, and sometimes people claim prolactin based mood swings..I have no research or verification to disprove or prove this, so I cannot comment. One side effect of cabaser in higher dosages is multiple orgasms in men, so it's a good product

As for the primo, yes it's awesome...gives you a sense of well being and very clean and no side effects..however it truly relates to minimal size gains. If you are looking for synergistic effects of compounds there are far cheaper ways...

When I was a member of SSB way back in the day, only a few people even know what that is, BigA will, we used to tell newer guys for quick easy size gains run Sustanon and Deca and frontload with dbol...it worked then and does now. Basic as ever, but does the trick..even for you, I think you'd be better off with something simplistic like Deca and Sust (there are a million other basic combos)

No need for designer AAS until you have a specific need for them

^^ for other opinions ^^

 

[Medic08]

Medic, Are injectible orals really that much easier on the body?

It's definitely easier on the liver which is a plus in my book.... I don't have any solid evidence that would suggest that it's overall easier on the body though.

 

[ManoftheWorld]

Medic, Are injectible orals really that much easier on the body?

less stress but in bigger picture of use i think its negligible.. theyre still 17-aa so even tho you bypass the initial pass thru liver when ingesting by injecting they still circulate in the blood so will continue to be metabolized by liver until clear your system...

some ppl who claim loss of appetite etc from orals going oral route advocate injecting to reduce or eliminate those effects by avoiding the stress it puts on the GI tract and initial pass thru liver...

 

[Bertucci]

Typical frat douche comment (yeah I read the what do you do outside bbing thread)

it was too easy calm down bromigo

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

Increases and high levels in Prolactin are seen in the form of puffy nipples and lactating milk from your nipples..Cabaser will eliminate this from happening. You really won't feel it, it just reduces these issues, and sometimes people claim prolactin based mood swings..I have no research or verification to disprove or prove this, so I cannot comment. One side effect of cabaser in higher dosages is multiple orgasms in men, so it's a good product

As for the primo, yes it's awesome...gives you a sense of well being and very clean and no side effects..however it truly relates to minimal size gains. If you are looking for synergistic effects of compounds there are far cheaper ways...

When I was a member of SSB way back in the day, only a few people even know what that is, BigA will, we used to tell newer guys for quick easy size gains run Sustanon and Deca and frontload with dbol...it worked then and does now. Basic as ever, but does the trick..even for you, I think you'd be better off with something simplistic like Deca and Sust (there are a million other basic combos)

No need for designer AAS until you have a specific need for them

^^ for other opinions ^^

Very helpful reply. Do you personally ever run deca/npp without caber? What do you think of my proposed cycle where i combine low doses of anabolics? And as for the dbol, yea it's magic i gain weight in 2 days on it and feel amazing.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

it was too easy calm down bromigo

IK dude on the same token from my end, it was also too easy. I was just busting your balls

 

[johnjuanb1]

I agree that it's healthier to run lower doses of aas with higher doses of hgh. You grow faster imo.

I use inject orals instead of orals. I feel much healthier this way.

If you can't grow on 5ius of riptropin per day and a gram and a half of any gear combination, then something is wrong. Throw in insulin and you will blow up.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

I agree that it's healthier to run lower doses of aas with higher doses of hgh. You grow faster imo.

I use inject orals instead of orals. I feel much healthier this way.

If you can't grow on 5ius of riptropin per day and a gram and a half of any gear combination, then something is wrong. Throw in insulin and you will blow up.

I think you are referring to another poster, but I have not used gh ever. Did you think my proposed cycle was ok or will it not work and just looks good on paper (ie combing three ineffective doses of drugs, my suggestion was 350 npp, 400 EQ, 500 primo, to minimize sides and in tern create one very effective, side effect free anabolic)? Do you have any opinion on suspension like another poster mentioned?

 

[Wesley Inman]

I think you are referring to another poster, but I have not used gh ever. Did you think my proposed cycle was ok or will it not work and just looks good on paper (ie combing three ineffective doses of drugs, my suggestion was 350 npp, 400 EQ, 500 primo, to minimize sides and in tern create one very effective, side effect free anabolic)? Do you have any opinion on suspension like another poster mentioned?

Well if the products are real, it is going to work no matter what, it just might not give you the specific intended result you are looking for, or in lamens terms for a bulk its probably not the best line up...

But you can throw any mixture of AAS together, and if they are real, you will see a result...

Suspension is the best form of test out there, any vet will agree...however the sides can be rough, and the injects are ED or EOD, so not good for a beginner, and it's water based so can be more painful...Also it will knock your hair out quick. But it is strong and effective.