HGH and gain?

[lifter]

I would put 0 stock into what 'coach' @TomJ tries to state as fact especially when it comes to insulin.

'Coach' confuses short and long lasting insulin as he has shown recently in a thread here and he doesn't even realize when he is injecting insulin (true story, a few hours after he injected he realized his fuck up and panicked). He thought it was a cool story. For these reasons, IMO, no one should take insulin advice from 'coach' Tom.

IMO, 10 IU is standard or at least not considered a high dose for competitors and muscle monsters like you and several others on this board.

I don't compete anymore, I am in my 40s and I don't have the same goals/cuts/size as some of the beasts in this joint so for me 10 IU is a lot but considering the level of many in here, my opinion on a high GH dose is in the minority.

As far as whether or not someone will lose gains cutting dose in half, I have no idea. IMO maybe someone will lose gains but it won't have near the negative effect as cutting test dose in half.

Shit, just noticed my mistake and cant change it. Apologies all as the first two paragraphs in my previous response were posted in error. Please disregard.

 

[TomJ]

I would put 0 stock into what 'coach' @TomJ tries to state as fact especially when it comes to insulin.

No one mentioned insulin you basement dwelling dork.

'Coach' confuses short and long lasting insulin as he has shown recently in a thread here and he doesn't even realize when he is injecting insulin (true story, a few hours after he injected he realized his fuck up and panicked). He thought it was a cool story. For these reasons, IMO, no one should take insulin advice from 'coach' Tom.

Yes, I once when i first introduced insulin into my protocol, made the mistake of doing my injections while tired and distracted and pulled too much out of muscle memory from my GH (.4ml for my 4iu of GH). This is not a cool story, but you sure seem to think it is by how often you bring it up.

IMO, 10 IU is standard or at least not considered a high dose for competitors and muscle monsters like you and several others on this board.

its absolutely not a high dose, but again, we arent talking about insulin.

I don't compete anymore,

you have never competed, you dont even lift.

I am in my 40s and I don't have the same goals/cuts/size as some of the beasts in this joint so for me 10 IU is a lot but considering the level of many in here, my opinion on a high GH dose is in the minority.

no one cares what your opinion is on anything, because your a poser who doesnt live the life, and has never lived the life. You are and have always been a wannabee.

 

[TomJ]

If you were more lean your side effects would go down quite a bit. I am 250, but have very little fat on me and 10iu is buttery smooth daddy

This is from Mondays checkins. Im by no means shredded, but by no means sloppy either.
While im sure if i was diced up i could tolerate a higher dose, i dont imagine it would be much higher.

 

[TomJ]

My comments on 10iu being a lot was not in relation or relative to pro or high level competitors usage.

It was in relation to OP who almost certainly is NOT a pro or high level competitor with his questions.

 

[lifter]

My comments on 10iu being a lot was not in relation or relative to pro or high level competitors usage.

It was in relation to OP who almost certainly is NOT a pro or high level competitor with his questions.

Don't assume 'coach.' Next time state your meaning and ask OP about their level in the game instead of making your usual idiotic assumptions and statements. How hard would it have been to point out what you did above in your original response?

Im trying to help you bro. Take a breath and actually think for once before you post your nonsense dribble.

 

[d4ve]

10IU is considered a standard dose these days and that's not according to me, that's according to Justin Harris.

Damn, I want to be exceptional, not standard. Time to bump up my 2/3 to a full bottle of TP blacks per day.

Kidding…for now

 

[TomJ]

Take a breath and actually think for once before you post your nonsense dribble.

pot meet kettle

Shit, just noticed my mistake and cant change it. Apologies all as the first two paragraphs in my previous response were posted in error. Please disregard.

im done with this back and forth with you, you arent on my level

 

[Pizza15]

10IU is considered a standard dose these days and that's not according to me, that's according to Justin Harris.

The standard dose is 15iu a day, with Testosterona Trenbolona Equipona.

Gh15 approved
Lion of Judah

 

[Brock456]

You're only as big as your dose. So will you lose something if allll other variables are the same except dropping the gh dosage? Yes, you will lose something. Think of it like going on TRT. You are bringing downnn your overall dosage. One thought is that you should have stayed at this new weight for longer than 8 weeks. There's a reason why offseasons are long. You are trying to create a new set point for the new tissue. Telling your body, "Hey, dont lose this. This is new but its normal." So the LONGER you stay and hold new weight, the better. Secondly, using TRT as an example, if we are backing down gear then we are hopefully doing somethinggg to even this drop. We are taking something away, so let's add something. An example of this is coaches who might lower gear dosage but add some insulin and up the GH on TRT. Or coaches who lower the gear and GH dosage, but then increase cals a bit.

also, who the f is Testo

The board needs more members like you bro. You’re one of the biggest members on this board and never act like you’re above anyone like other people do
And still give a detailed explanation to a relatively newb question.

 

[luki7788]

I really don’t think you lose anything from muscle mass if you’re gear dose stays the same because gh only creates new muscle fibers not created hypertropy cels you already have it and you can grow them thanks to androgen so you can be even bigger if you’re reduce gh dose and rise up androgens - basically even for this reason some guys using „gh blasts” periods - fore example you blast high dose gh couple weeks and create new muscle cells then back to average dose but rise gear doses to growing new muscle cells bigger

 

[luki7788]

This is from Mondays checkins. Im by no means shredded, but by no means sloppy either.
While im sure if i was diced up i could tolerate a higher dose, i dont imagine it would be much higher.

View attachment 203569View attachment 203570View attachment 203571View attachment 203572

Be honest? To much fat to grow phase for me

 

[svenrpb]

I really don’t think you lose anything from muscle mass if you’re gear dose stays the same because gh only creates new muscle fibers not created hypertropy cels you already have it and you can grow them thanks to androgen so you can be even bigger if you’re reduce gh dose and rise up androgens - basically even for this reason some guys using „gh blasts” periods - fore example you blast high dose gh couple weeks and create new muscle cells then back to average dose but rise gear doses to growing new muscle cells bigger

Isn´t it a myth that it grows new muscle cells?

 

[luki7788]

Isn´t it a myth that it grows new muscle cells?

From what I see from myself and others when they start using GH, I can say that it is definitely not a myth

 

[TomJ]

Be honest? To much fat to grow phase for me

I appreciate your honesty and respect your opinion.
I'll keep this in mind and discuss with the coach.

 

[TomJ]

Isn´t it a myth that it grows new muscle cells?

IIRC, hyperplasia of muscle cells hasn't been confirmed in humans or at least isn't believed to be a significant mechanism of muscle growth.

The benefit to hypertrophy from GH is from IGF-1s mechanisms mostly.

I might be off base, I'll try to dig up the literature on it later today

 

[luki7788]

IIRC, hyperplasia of muscle cells hasn't been confirmed in humans or at least isn't believed to be a significant mechanism of muscle growth.

The benefit to hypertrophy from GH is from IGF-1s mechanisms mostly.

I might be off base, I'll try to dig up the literature on it later today

Research does not matter to us because even if something is theoretically confirmed or denied in a few years there will be research that will give exactly the opposite conclusions.

 

[TomJ]

Research does not matter to us because even if something is theoretically confirmed or denied in a few years there will be research that will give exactly the opposite conclusions.

Oh absolutely, the actual science always lags behind those at the front actually experiencing it.

That being said I think the research is a good place to look to better understand some mechanisms.

The "bro science" of the guys who have been doing it for years, usually ends up getting confirmed by the research or at least gets proven that they were pretty damn close.

For me, I like to look at the research, and the bro science. I find both to be equally useful tools when applied to the correct context. Where they overlap is probably pretty damn close to the right answer, and where they differ are areas that I look to to learn why.

Obviously the super dogmatic, science based, community with the "hur during but the research says" while being 160lbs doesn't have a leg to stand on. At the same time, the big old head in the gym thats been doing it for decades still says "you gotta shock the muscle" or "if you're not sore, you're not growing".

 

[lifter]

The board needs more members like you bro. You’re one of the biggest members on this board and never act like you’re above anyone like other people do
And still give a detailed explanation to a relatively newb question.

I think the vast majority of what I consider 'true' big guys here are quite humble, give great advice, generally have credentials/accomplishments in the game and truly understand research. Its one of the biggest positives about PM.

The ones that I see that are not humble and are often rude only think they are big guys and they give incorrect advice and/or make false statements about 50% of time. This type often have accomplished little or nothing, have no credentials and they appear to have a false sense of their importance, even just on the internet.

Bottom line for me, ignore the idiot assholes with their inferiority complex. There are a large number of true big guys here that are humble, realistic, rational and helpful.

 

[TomJ]

 

[BB71]

The board needs more members like you bro. You’re one of the biggest members on this board and never act like you’re above anyone like other people do
And still give a detailed explanation to a relatively newb question.

Thank you