Hgh and slin and timing

[ripped358]

I did slin in the past and I did 10iu hgh post workout waited a half hour then inj. 10iu humalog slin then waited another half hour then
Have my first shake, I've never needed more than 5grams of carbs per each iu of slin .
So I would put 10grams creatine 10 grams glutamine
50 gram of carbs and some dextrose

How's this sound I think this us the way I did it and please don't argue I need. 10grab of carbs per iu slin I found it to be to much and found 5 to be my sweet spot

 

[thebigguy84]

I personally would take my GH 1-2hr before workout so when I get into workout my GH levels are at peek. Also would take Slin 30 minutes prior to workout so you force nutrients into muscles during workout. But hey this is just My opinion.

 

[AshopRep]

I take my gh with my slin, but do everything else like you, when I use Humalog.

 

[JCswoll]

I take my 6iu of Eli in the AM ,1hr before any carbs.

 

[Geoffke]

I take my gh with my slin, but do everything else like you, when I use Humalog.

How do you use it?

 

[JonnyO]

To my understanding they are counterregulatory hormones so shouldnt be taken together. I like GH in the am prior to my am cardio or if no cardio I take in and wait a while before eating. Slin is usually a few hours later pre w/o. By the time the workouts finished a few hours have gone by since taking the slin so taking GH at this time should be ok as well.

Effects of growth hormone on glucose metabolism.
Møller N, Jørgensen JO, Abildgård N, Orskov L, Schmitz O, Christiansen JS.
Source

Medical Department M (Endocrinology and Diabetes), Aarhus Kommunehospital, Denmark.
Abstract

Growth hormone (GH) counteracts in general the effects of insulin on glucose and lipid metabolism, but shares protein anabolic properties with insulin. Under physiological circumstances GH does not affect total glucose turnover directly. There is however evidence that GH acutely decreases glucose oxidation (secondary to an increase in lipid oxidation) and suppresses muscle uptake of glucose, suggesting that GH redistributes glucose fluxes into a non-oxidative pathway, which could be a build up of glycogen depots through gluconeogenesis. Since GH secretion is inhibited in the fed state these actions are mainly important in the postprandial or fasting state. Under pathological conditions of GH excess (e.g. acromegaly, poorly controlled tp. 1 diabetes or high dose GH treatment) the diabetogenic actions of GH become apparent. In these patients increased endogenous glucose production, decreased muscle glucose uptake and rising blood glucose levels are observed. In patients with intact beta-cell function these changes are counterbalanced by hyperinsulinemia--such hyperinsulinemia may in the long term induce increased cardiovascular morbidity and mortality ('Reavens syndrome X'). When stimulated with insulin these patients exhibit insulin resistance at the liver, in adipose tissue and in muscle. Few elaborate studies on the effects of GH on glucose metabolism in GH deficient patients have been conducted. These patients are hypersensitive to the actions of insulin on glucose metabolism and there is some evidence that when GH initially is given to such patients in the GH deprived state, paradox insulin-like effects of GH may be observed. Whether this may relate to increased activity of insulin-like growth factors is unsettled.

 

[Knight9]

To my understanding they are counterregulatory hormones so shouldnt be taken together. I like GH in the am prior to my am cardio or if no cardio I take in and wait a while before eating. Slin is usually a few hours later pre w/o. By the time the workouts finished a few hours have gone by since taking the slin so taking GH at this time should be ok as well.

To my understanding, taking them so they peak together creates the surge in IGF.

 

[JonnyO]

To my understanding, taking them so they peak together creates the surge in IGF.

How do you know that? Not doubting you just would like to know more if so.

 

[Knight9]

How do you know that? Not doubting you just would like to know more if so.

Information given from physicians that specialize in hrt etc. Dr Eric Serrano and Alpha6164 have both eluded to it.

 

[gulfcoast]

HGH - 1 hour pre WO
Slin (Log) - 30 mins pre WO

 

[timmy123]

Iv heard slin pre and hgh post works well. I am a bit worried about using slin pre though

 

[snrose07]

Iv heard slin pre and hgh post works well. I am a bit worried about using slin pre though

This is what I mostly read too. After some reading and physiology classes, it somewhat makes sense to take insulin pre. Hgh is not in the way(as said before, gh counteracts insulin) shuttle nutrients for repair DURING exercise breakdown. Still get an IGF-1 surge from the insulin, then Pwo further spike igf1 for repair with gh after insulin has been given time to get in and do its thing.

Is this on the right track?

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[Knight9]

This is what I mostly read too. After some reading and physiology classes, it somewhat makes sense to take insulin pre. Hgh is not in the way(as said before, gh counteracts insulin) shuttle nutrients for repair DURING exercise breakdown. Still get an IGF-1 surge from the insulin, then Pwo further spike igf1 for repair with gh after insulin has been given time to get in and do its thing.

Is this on the right track?

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I'm not sure how else to say it since you are obviously not getting it. I am relayinging information from doctors in the field that practice and study this stuff. Yes, GH and Insulin are counter-regulatory but that doesn't mean they counteract and detract from eachother. It seems they have a very synergystic effect. What sense does it make injecting GH post workout if it takes a couple hrs to peak?

 

[sbc5966]

Counter-regulatory is NOT counter-active.

The effects are not less, just the total release. If you inject it, then the downregulation of release is not a problem. You remove the variability of the endogenous hormone release.

 

[snrose07]

I'm not sure how else to say it since you are obviously not getting it. I am relayinging information from doctors in the field that practice and study this stuff. Yes, GH and Insulin are counter-regulatory but that doesn't mean they counteract and detract from eachother. It seems they have a very synergystic effect. What sense does it make injecting GH post workout if it takes a couple hrs to peak?

I'm not having a pissing contest on who knows more or where the information comes. Im glad for ypu that you are talking to big names. I'm just saying what I see most names out there doing as perhaps as to why it is being done this way. Yes maybe its not the most beneficial way. Its not the fact I didn't understand what you said before.

From many bodybuilder protocols, lots of gh is pwo. I have read lots about Gh inhibiting glucose uptake because the body is programmed that way. When one is normally up the other is down. Perhaps this is why people take insulin and carbs before hand to get an un hindered effect.

One question I had was why do guys take gh pwo if it takes so long to peak. Some say peak can be seen at 90 minutes if taken IM. Still a long time.

Perhaps it is all wrong. I'm not defending a side. Understand that. I'm opening up for understanding of the body.

I know John Meadows posted the video of Dr. Serrano about gh stating best for fat loss is pre workout gh about 2 hours prior. So this is the same for being as anabolic as possible as well?

Here was one of the readings I have about gh hindering glucose uptake..

**broken link removed**

Just trying to put pieces together.


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[snrose07]

Counter-regulatory is NOT counter-active.

The effects are not less, just the total release. If you inject it, then the downregulation of release is not a problem. You remove the variability of the endogenous hormone release.

To help me understand then.. do people see a rise in their blood glucose because they are producing less insulin in the presence of gh or are they actually becoming less insulin sensitive. This is taking gh alone. My current understanding is the latter.

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[sammy555]

I'm not having a pissing contest on who knows more or where the information comes. Im glad for ypu that you are talking to big names. I'm just saying what I see most names out there doing as perhaps as to why it is being done this way. Yes maybe its not the most beneficial way. Its not the fact I didn't understand what you said before.

From many bodybuilder protocols, lots of gh is pwo. I have read lots about Gh inhibiting glucose uptake because the body is programmed that way. When one is normally up the other is down. Perhaps this is why people take insulin and carbs before hand to get an un hindered effect.

One question I had was why do guys take gh pwo if it takes so long to peak. Some say peak can be seen at 90 minutes if taken IM. Still a long time.

Perhaps it is all wrong. I'm not defending a side. Understand that. I'm opening up for understanding of the body.

I know John Meadows posted the video of Dr. Serrano about gh stating best for fat loss is pre workout gh about 2 hours prior. So this is the same for being as anabolic as possible as well?

Here was one of the readings I have about gh hindering glucose uptake..

**broken link removed**

Just trying to put pieces together.


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Knight is totally right in everything he says. GH inhibits glucose uptake in the fat cells which is good. In layman's terms gh makes slin less fattening and just as anabolic of not more so and slin makes your gh anabolic but inhibits ffa release. For fat loss you want gh in a carbless low insulin environment. For mass gain insulin. For leaner increased mass gains gh and insulin together with GH bring injected an hour or so prior to slin or even more. Depending on type of slin, as Knight correctly points out you want them peaking at about the same time for maximum effect. GH and slin are probably the 2 single most synagestic hormones in bodybuilding. That doctor guy actually said gh a few hours prior for anabolism not fat loss. The same would apply for fat loss though I imagine but in a low insulin preferably carbless environment

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[snrose07]

Knight is totally right in everything he says. GH inhibits glucose uptake in the fat cells which is good. In layman's terms gh makes slin less fattening and just as anabolic of not more so and slin makes your gh anabolic but inhibits ffa release. For fat loss you want gh in a carbless low insulin environment. For mass gain insulin. For leaner increased mass gains gh and insulin together with GH bring injected an hour or so prior to slin or even more. Depending on type of slin, as Knight correctly points out you want them peaking at about the same time for maximum effect. GH and slin are probably the 2 single most synagestic hormones in bodybuilding. That doctor guy actually said gh a few hours prior for anabolism not fat loss. The same would apply for fat loss though I imagine but in a low insulin preferably carbless environment

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Very nice explanation. Thanks!

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[Knight9]

I'm not having a pissing contest on who knows more or where the information comes. Im glad for ypu that you are talking to big names. I'm just saying what I see most names out there doing as perhaps as to why it is being done this way. Yes maybe its not the most beneficial way. Its not the fact I didn't understand what you said before.

From many bodybuilder protocols, lots of gh is pwo. I have read lots about Gh inhibiting glucose uptake because the body is programmed that way. When one is normally up the other is down. Perhaps this is why people take insulin and carbs before hand to get an un hindered effect.

One question I had was why do guys take gh pwo if it takes so long to peak. Some say peak can be seen at 90 minutes if taken IM. Still a long time.

Perhaps it is all wrong. I'm not defending a side. Understand that. I'm opening up for understanding of the body.

I know John Meadows posted the video of Dr. Serrano about gh stating best for fat loss is pre workout gh about 2 hours prior. So this is the same for being as anabolic as possible as well?

Here was one of the readings I have about gh hindering glucose uptake..

**broken link removed**

Just trying to put pieces together.


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You should probably watch the video again. He didnt say to take it pre workout for fat loss. He said if he wanted the most effective fat loss, he wouldnt consume carbs with it but that it still works just fine in the presence of carbs.

For you to act like I am boasting about big names I have on speed dial is childish. Im trying to teach you what I have learned, because at one time I thought the same as you do. I can't explain all of it 100% scientifically, but when a SMART individual starts talking...I listen and if its reasonable, adopt/apply it. When two smart individuals with those kind of credentials share the same basic opinion, I'll be damned if I go to using slin pre and gh post...no matter how many competitors you or I know are following the herd doing what everyone says to do. I wouldn't be surprised if the ones who know the science do exactly as these experts say and just dont advertise it to their peers since it could give them an advantage.

You are talking about the time it takes GH to peak. If GH takes so long to peak, doesn't it make sense to inject it 90-120min pre workout?

 

[Knight9]

Knight is totally right in everything he says. GH inhibits glucose uptake in the fat cells which is good. In layman's terms gh makes slin less fattening and just as anabolic of not more so and slin makes your gh anabolic but inhibits ffa release. For fat loss you want gh in a carbless low insulin environment. For mass gain insulin. For leaner increased mass gains gh and insulin together with GH bring injected an hour or so prior to slin or even more. Depending on type of slin, as Knight correctly points out you want them peaking at about the same time for maximum effect. GH and slin are probably the 2 single most synagestic hormones in bodybuilding. That doctor guy actually said gh a few hours prior for anabolism not fat loss. The same would apply for fat loss though I imagine but in a low insulin preferably carbless environment

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GREAT post! Snrose, and others....Im not a doctor and I sure as hell don't play one on the internet. Im a geek that is thirsty to learn all he can from the SMARTEST people out there. That is my goal and what I enjoy. Learning and applying.
Trust me 6 months ago or so I was assuming slin pre GH post was best as well.