hGH Protocol Help Needed

[Kaladryn]

Goals, in order of importance:

1. Lean Mass Gain
2. Tendon and Joint Strengthening (close 2nd)
3. Fat Loss (distant 3rd)

I’m currently 220 lbs, 7.5% bodyfat (7 site pinch), 5’11, and 35 years old. I’ve been lifting for around 20 years, but only started bodybuilding competitively last year.

I’m currently 4 weeks into a cycle of 300mg Test Cyp/week, 300mg Parabolan/week. Also on .25mg Adex EOD, 250ui HCG 2x/week. When not “on” I’m on TRT at 250mg/week.

The question is, what GH protocol to add in? For pure mass, I like the idea of building up to 10iu 3x/week, with slin, all PWO. However because of goal #2 and #3, I’m thinking of a 6 day/week protocol. 2iu early AM, cardio, then 2iu PWO with slin.

3x/week all PWO seems like a great mass program, with minimal sides, but wouldn’t I miss the bodyfat lowering and tendon building effects using this protocol? My bodyfat is pretty low, but I need to get it down a bit more to be 12-16 weeks away from competition shape.

Any advice greatly appreciated, I’ve been reading this forum extensively, and Professional Muscle is by FAR the best forum on bodybuilding on the net, period.

 

[jm425]

If your prepping for a show then why are do you want to use gh and slin to add muscle? If your diet isn't perfect then it can back fire on you and you could get fat. My advice to you is to prep for your contest and then after your contest, focus in on bulking with aas gh and slin. You might fuck up your contest prep by trying to do many things all at once. I've seen it happen before with other guys.

 

[Kaladryn]

Sorry if I was a bit confusing in my original post, I am not currently in contest prep, I just want to lower my bodyfat a bit so that contest prep less extreme. I am in a bulking phase, and plan to be for the next 6months.

My diet is as close to perfect as I know how to make it. 60g protein, 80g carbs, 20g fat, 6x per day. Red meat 2-3x per day, chicken 2-3x per day, never more than one shake meal per day. PWO is 40g isolate whey, 60g high GI carbs, then a full meal less than an hour later.

 

[jm425]

Ok since you are bulking and will be for awhile, then I'd suggest this. Run your gh and slin 3x a week, pwo 10ius of slin and 10ius of gh. While the slin is active in your system, stay away from fats and consume carbs and protein only. The rest of the time you can eat your regular diet.

 

[pesty4077]

Sorry if I was a bit confusing in my original post, I am not currently in contest prep, I just want to lower my bodyfat a bit so that contest prep less extreme. I am in a bulking phase, and plan to be for the next 6months.

My diet is as close to perfect as I know how to make it. 60g protein, 80g carbs, 20g fat, 6x per day. Red meat 2-3x per day, chicken 2-3x per day, never more than one shake meal per day. PWO is 40g isolate whey, 60g high GI carbs, then a full meal less than an hour later.

Personally I think you are confused. You are in a bulking phase and want to lower BF? At what, You claim you are 7.5% (I actually like to see a picture) You are close to contest shape at that BF. You don't need to lower BF, for a bulking phase. Personally you should stay away from insulin and the GH, I don't think you need it. Up your test dosage for lean mass gain, to 600mg and add deca at 400mg for size and joints. That is 400mg more than what you are taking now. You should make good gains, as long as your diet is good and you train hard and heavy with basic movements. You can do that for 12-16 weeks and then PCT for 3-5 weeks and get off for the same.

 

[robot]

Ok since you are bulking and will be for awhile, then I'd suggest this. Run your gh and slin 3x a week, pwo 10ius of slin and 10ius of gh. While the slin is active in your system, stay away from fats and consume carbs and protein only. The rest of the time you can eat your regular diet.

I find it interesting that the common direction is to avoid fats post insulin yet insulin reacts primarily with glucose (carbs) to create fat. I definitely find it necessary to use 6 grams of dextrose per iu to avoid becoming hypoglycemic and I know many go as high as 10-12 to be safe.

What is less than obvious to me is that dietary fat is more readily absorbed in the presence of insulin. I would have thought... excess calories in combination with glucose for the insulin to work with. It is my understanding that this is one of the critical reason why low carb diets tend to result in lowered body fat composition.


"Insulin controls glucose uptake into our fat cells by moving glucose transporter proteins from inside the cell to the surface membrane so that they can pump glucose into the cell. " - Discovery explains how insulin prompts fat and muscle cells to absorb glucose

Expression of an insulin-regulatable glucose carrier in muscle and fat endothelial cells

of course it also causes glucose uptake into our muscle cells.

It is also not entirely obvious to me whether this is an either/or/both mechanism or whether it can be controlled to in a manner that makes muscle uptake preferential to fat uptake.

To me it seems likely that like any good bulking technique that you pretty much have to add some fat with your new muscle if you want to grow whether it be via directly through diet or hormonal manipulation.

 

[Kaladryn]

Personally I think you are confused. You are in a bulking phase and want to lower BF? At what, You claim you are 7.5% (I actually like to see a picture) You are close to contest shape at that BF. You don't need to lower BF, for a bulking phase. Personally you should stay away from insulin and the GH, I don't think you need it. Up your test dosage for lean mass gain, to 600mg and add deca at 400mg for size and joints. That is 400mg more than what you are taking now. You should make good gains, as long as your diet is good and you train hard and heavy with basic movements. You can do that for 12-16 weeks and then PCT for 3-5 weeks and get off for the same.

Well I don't necessarily think a 7 site pinch is accurate. I competed in early June at a local NPC show, 4.7% on the pinch, and have been eating very clean since. The problem is, I'm still carry a lot of lovehandle fat, even though my legs and arms have roadmap vascularity, even my traps are striated, veins all over lats, and lovehandle/lower back fat still there. I know it is age related to some extent, however I was hoping adding some GH would help me get rid of it and still gain size, albeit slowly.

As for dosages, I make fantatic gains from lower doses, I could give you figures but you wouldn't believe me. Well lets try, from July 08 to April 09, I gained 40 lbs of lean mass on 300mg test/week. This is ONLY because of muscle memory, and the fact that I have been up to 250 lbs in my younger years. But nonetheless, low doses are working well for me this time around, I do seem to have platued at 220, and thus have added the tren, and am about to add the GH.

My only real question is, will the 3x/week protocol be as supportive to connective tissue? I did try adding in 200mg/week of deca, however the deca/tren combo didn't agree with my very mild case of gyno. Even though I upped my Adex a bit while on the deca.

 

[Kaladryn]

To me it seems likely that like any good bulking technique that you pretty much have to add some fat with your new muscle if you want to grow whether it be via directly through diet or hormonal manipulation.

Thank you robot, good info here, I can accept gaining some fat, or not losing any. I have always felt I gained muscle better while gaining a small amount of fat in the process. I guess I just hoped I could get a bit of both worlds with GH, but losing a bit of fat is a distant 3rd on my list of goals, and can easily be forgotten.

 

[jm425]

I find it interesting that the common direction is to avoid fats post insulin yet insulin reacts primarily with glucose (carbs) to create fat. I definitely find it necessary to use 6 grams of dextrose per iu to avoid becoming hypoglycemic and I know many go as high as 10-12 to be safe.

What is less than obvious to me is that dietary fat is more readily absorbed in the presence of insulin. I would have thought... excess calories in combination with glucose for the insulin to work with. It is my understanding that this is one of the critical reason why low carb diets tend to result in lowered body fat composition.


"Insulin controls glucose uptake into our fat cells by moving glucose transporter proteins from inside the cell to the surface membrane so that they can pump glucose into the cell. " - Discovery explains how insulin prompts fat and muscle cells to absorb glucose

Expression of an insulin-regulatable glucose carrier in muscle and fat endothelial cells

of course it also causes glucose uptake into our muscle cells.

It is also not entirely obvious to me whether this is an either/or/both mechanism or whether it can be controlled to in a manner that makes muscle uptake preferential to fat uptake.

To me it seems likely that like any good bulking technique that you pretty much have to add some fat with your new muscle if you want to grow whether it be via directly through diet or hormonal manipulation.

Bro, I'm not saying that you need to avoid fats all day while on slin. Your body does need dietary fat while bulking. You should AVOID fats while the slin is active in your system and then afterwards, continue to consume your fats the rest of the day. The overconsumption of both carbs and fats in general will make anyone fat.

 

[jm425]

Thank you robot, good info here, I can accept gaining some fat, or not losing any. I have always felt I gained muscle better while gaining a small amount of fat in the process. I guess I just hoped I could get a bit of both worlds with GH, but losing a bit of fat is a distant 3rd on my list of goals, and can easily be forgotten.

Try adding excess amounts of fat in your diet while slin is in your system. You will notice yourself getting fat quickly.