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How do I Gain 10lbs of Muscle/Lose 10lbs of Fat

Frank N. Steroid

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What would you say are some of the best ways,and some of the things needed,to gain about 10lbs of muscle,and lose about 10lbs of fat,more or less at the same time??(and don't say it can't be done,cos it can).

Now I know it's not an easy thing to do,as your trying to get the body to respond in different ways more or less at the same time,but what would you say are some of the things needed to be done to achieve this??(mainly without the inclusion of LBA's,and without being able to use GH and igf-1,things like that.Steroids can be used though - yeah I know there's more to it than using steroids,but just needed to be mentioned).
 
Eat like a horse and do cardio
 
Along with using gear,I was thinking more in terms of nutrition,supplements and training,with a lot more specific recommendations,rather than just simply stating the obvious,and oversimplifying a more complicated matter.
 
Two words............training, Diet!!
 
Two words............training, Diet!!

I guess you couldn't have read my post above!! I mean,it's obvious that training and diet is a big part of the equation,but I'm trying to get a good discussion going here as to what things specificly are needed to be done.Just as one example,as you try to drop bf,you have to prevent as much muscle loss as possible,so what specifics are needed to prevent(or minimize)this,whilst building roughly 10lbs of muscle at the same time??
 
I guess you couldn't have read my post above!! I mean,it's obvious that training and diet is a big part of the equation,but I'm trying to get a good discussion going here as to what things specificly are needed to be done.Just as one example,as you try to drop bf,you have to prevent as much muscle loss as possible,so what specifics are needed to prevent(or minimize)this,whilst building roughly 10lbs of muscle at the same time??

Theres plently of threads here about diet + training, try reading them.

you think that theres some magic way to do it that no one has said before?

Standard diet + training + gear.
 
There's a beginners forum for this.
 
I guess you couldn't have read my post above!! I mean,it's obvious that training and diet is a big part of the equation,but I'm trying to get a good discussion going here as to what things specificly are needed to be done.Just as one example,as you try to drop bf,you have to prevent as much muscle loss as possible,so what specifics are needed to prevent(or minimize)this,whilst building roughly 10lbs of muscle at the same time??

Your going to have to play with this, b/c it more of an individual thing.

For me I like to keep my calories at maintaince and use cardio and training to create deficency to lose fat. I use consume a high protein diet 55p/30c/15f, but again this is an individual thing and your going to have to play with your macro nutrients until you find what suits you...but for fat lose and muscle retention/gain this works well.

For days I lift, I stick to heavy cpd movements with little rest time and polish up my workout with drop sets and exhaust to failure. On my off days, I do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.

I do this style training/diet year around with only slight changes if my body quits responding. Have made tons of gains and keeped fat down naturally.
 
Last edited:
Theres plently of threads here about diet + training, try reading them.

you think that theres some magic way to do it that no one has said before?

Standard diet + training + gear.

there is no magic routine, no magic drug. Train hard, eat right, sleep good get results that simple. good luck bro stay focused
 
Hawaiimuscle,now this is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.Thanks for a great answer,dealing specifically with the question that was asked instead of stating the obvious like "training and diet," which is an understatement in stating the obvious!!!!!!! Thanks.

Btw,I don't know why this has been moved to the beginner's section,as there's nothing basic about building roughly 10lbs of muscle,whilst droping roughly 10lbs of fat at the same time.
 
Along with using gear,I was thinking more in terms of nutrition,supplements and training,with a lot more specific recommendations,rather than just simply stating the obvious,and oversimplifying a more complicated matter.
Wow. I'm shocked at this. You want some long glorified answer to a question that can't even be properly answered without some serious details?

How much time do you expect people to spend on you? Why don't you do some research, play with all the things you mentioned, become more informed and tell US what worked for you. At least then you contributed something.

Nothing wrong with asking a question bro but when I see ungrateful remarks because people didn't give you a three page post it makes me want to help you even less. You've been here a month? So many threads have discussed this I can't even count. Had you read those, you wouldn't even be asking questions. You'd be designing your own routine.
 
It's like this, two words, diet and training and I read everything just fine. You will need your diet in spic and span condition as this is what builds muscle, loses fat or has you wasting away to nothing. All I will say about this is Protein! Proper training will have you lose fat, gain muscle or lose muscle! It all depends on how you go about it. Now there are people on this board that make a living helping people like you. SO do not expect a diet and training routine to fall out the sky with the next rain!!
 
Times Carb Diet.... take advantage of building muscle and losing fat throughout the day....

Pro/Fat meals for all meals other than PWO and PWO2 (whole food meal)

Then have a refeed once a week.... im sure you can do a search on a Timed Carb Diet and find out all the specs.

Aww fuck it i got it for you...

Timed Carbs
Found this whilst trawling through the net it is a very good approach and very close to the carb cycling that i do....
it was written by IronAddict...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most of the people that come to me seeking personal training advice have their number one priority listed as dropping bodyfat. And when I say most, I am talking about 75-80%. The sad part is a big percentage of those people were NOT fat when they started bodybuilding. Yes, they got that way trying to “bulk up”. I guess you can say they were successful at “bulking” if you consider fat to be “bulk”. What they should have been doing is “muscling up”. That is rarely done until the trainee is quite experienced. The yo-yo approach can work well if you are blessed with a great metabolism……few are. Had they done it right they wouldn’t be in that situation. But, past mistakes are best left in the past. This article is about how to leave those mistakes in the past where they belong, and give you some general guidelines about timed-carb dieting, which I FIRMELY believe is the best approach to dropping the bodyfat while at a bare minimum retaining 100% of your muscle mass, and in the VAST majority of cases, adding some muscle and lots of strength while shedding the unwanted fat.

Timed Carb Diets
A timed carb diet works on the same basic principle as a keto-diet. Take away the bodies preferred fuel source (carbs) and provide enough fat in the diet that the body will switch to using fat as the fuel. But instead of going 5-6 days without ANY carbs, this diet allows you to take in carbs when they are most needed, and least likely to spill over into fat stores—right after the workout. Also, since we are not worried about actually hitting ketosis and staying in ketosis, if you slip, or just feel the need to bump up carbs a bit to replenish glycogen stores, you didn’t just bump yourself out of the ketogenic state you just spent 2 days to achieve.

What do these diets accomplish?
Fat is burned as the preferred fuel source and protein (read that muscle) is spared.
Performance in the gym stays good.
Thyroid function remains higher for a longer period of time.
You don’t go out of your head waiting 5 days to eat some damn carbs!

OK, now the how-to of a timed carb diet. Again, we are trying to get the body to switch from being a carb or protein-burning machine into a fat burning machine. Remember, if caloric levels are low, and carbs, thus insulin is high, your body will convert protein to carbs via glucogenisys and that is to be avoided at all costs. Anyway, to get on the path of burning fat as fuel, we simply remove the carbs out of the equation, AND keep fat in the diet at (at least) a 40-50% ratio. This lets the body know there is still a primary fuel source (fat) and allows it to be burned as fuel, while sparing protein

So, we decide to start a timed carb diet on Monday. Sunday night you cut out the carbs about three hours before bed. When you wake up in the morning blood sugar levels will be very low, and your body will be wanting some carbs---too bad, it doesn’t get any! You will eat only fat and protein. Ensuring fat makes up at LEAST 40% of the caloric profile. You may have a leafy green salad with oil based dressing, or some string-beans, or other such low-carb veggie, BUT NO MORE THAN 6-8 grams of carbs per feeding. You keep this up right until pre-workout, where an apple is allowed IF you feel the need to put a few carbs in your system to raise energy levels. MOST guys do not find this to be necessary and if it does not provide a big advantage DON’T do it. If the carbs don’t help much, have a small protein drink and proceed with the workout.

Post-workout, and it’s time to replenish the carb-stores in the muscles you just worked. As the vast majority of you already know, immediately after a hard weight training session there is a “window of opportunity” in the muscle cell when insulin sensitivity is very high and the body is most receptive to nutrient uptake. So…..you slam down 65-100 grams of fast liquid carbs (malto-dextrin, dextrose, and yes, even sucrose will work). About 10 minutes later follow it up with a 65-100 gram whey protein drink. As soon as you are hungry again, you can eat a small “regular” meal with a 40/30/30 protein/carb/fat profile to “top off the tank” of glycogen stores in the muscle. Then, you are back to zero or trace amounts of carbs until the next workout.

You then repeat the this format for a maximum of five days, and then have a 1-2 day carb-up. On days that you don’t train, you don’t eat any carbs except for a green salad or two. You do not have to run these no carb to carb days for the full five days and for many of you, having a lower ratio of no carb Vs. carb days will be advantageous. Also you do NOT have to do the carb days back-to back. You may do a couple of no carb days, followed by one or more carb days. This is determined on YOUR metabolism and how fast you want to drop the bodyfat.

Pretty simple huh? Well, I haven’t given you ALL the details, but close enough to get most of you at least much closer to being able to put together a successful diet plan on your own, and if you want to have ALL the details in place, consider having me train you!

Do’s and don’ts:
If you don’t keep the fat ratio AT LEAST 40% your body will just continue to use carbs as fuel. How does this happen if all you are eating is chicken breasts as an example? Well your body has no problems converting protein to carbs and WILL do this if it doesn’t sense an alternate fuel source (fats.)
This type of diet tends to work best with lower overall workout days, so if you are a volume trainer who is in the gym 6 days a week (bad idea in any case IMO) you will see decreased results since every day will be a carb day. It will still work however.

Log your food intake for at LEAST a week to ensure you are hitting your numbers for both macro-nutrient profile, and overall kcals. You might just find out how far off you are from where you “thought” you were.

Your carb-up days are designed to refill the glycogen stores in the muscle, and bump up caloric levels a bit to keep your thyroid off balance. They are not go all-out berserk pig-out days. MANY, MANY lifters make this mistake and cancel out all the fat loss they achieved up until the carb-up day(s).

Do cardio when dieting. No it is not mandatory, but it makes such a big difference for such little effort and time expended that is extremely short-sighted to not include it as part of your fat-loss plan.

Don’t be in a big hurry to drop the bodyfat. You didn’t get fat overnight (well, some of you almost did) so don’t try to lose it overnight. You should work along the lines of about this much fat loss a week:
150-200 lb trainees, 1.5 lbs a week
200-250 lb trainees, 2 lbs a week
250+ 2 to 2-1/2b lbs a week

Going much more aggressive than that and strength gains will slow or stop, and catabolism may set in.

If you are just starting a reduced volume (or realistic training program) the scale may be worthless at first. Many people are able to gain a significant amount of muscle when dieting like this. Use the mirror and calipers (or better yet hydro-static weighing) to determine your rate of success.

You WILL end up looking flat by day 3-4, this is NOT representative of what you will look like when fully carbed-up. Remember, each gram of glycogen in the muscle brings 3 grams of water with it. When glycogen stores are down (and they will be) when doing low carbs you will “appear” smaller. It’s just water, don’t sweat it!

This type of diet lends itself well to getting a large percentage of daily caloric levels from protein powder and EFA’s (essential fatty acids), and that makes it convenient to do.

I will at some point put out another article aimed at how to stay lean while adding mass, and as you might guess it is a variation of this basic format.

There you go, get that damn bodyfat off you and become a true bodybuilder. You know, one who isn’t afraid to take his shirt off-lol.

And, again, If you want ALL the pieces of diet/routine and supplementation laid out for you including exact macronutrient and kcal requirements, consider having me train you!

More timed carb diet options
I am Many people here do time carb diets to drop body fat and preserve or build muscle while dieting. As previously stated in my timed carb diet article, no, or low carbohydrate diets with periodic carb ups, and always ensuring post workout carb ups are completed are the best way to get lean while not sacrificing muscle. And if implemented properly, strength and mass will be built while dieting.

The way these diets are typically structured is to have a set amount of days where low or no carbs are consumed unless it is a workout day, and then have specific carb-up periods to replenish glycogen stores, help keep thyroid output high, and give the trainee a break from the low carbs. This keeps performance good and keeps a trainee sane while dieting. Some people though can have a problem with having three to five days with low or no carbs. While I do feel that the standard plan is the best approach to doing this, and the fastest way to drop body fat, I also understand it is not for everybody, and modifications can be used for some of these trainees that won't do it the traditional way.

A typical time carb diet might be four days without carbs (training days get carbs PWO, and a normal meal after) and three days where carbs are consumed. This can be kind of rough on some trainees for various reasons. And some guys just don't have the mental fortitude to go if three to five days without consuming significant quantities of carbs. If they stick with it after approximately a week and a half to two weeks they will find energy levels are fine and performance stays good. But………. getting some people to do the whole two weeks can be difficult. And I have heard every excuse in the world as to why can't be done some very valid some absolutely horrible. I had one guy tell me if he went more than five hours without carbs he would pass out. What I pointed out that it was a miracle that he woke up after sleeping for five hours he backed off on his exaggeration about how bad it made him feel. And the reality is no one no one will pass out after not eating carbs or not eating for five hours. But some people like to be dramatic.

Here are some options for people that won't or don't want to take the traditional approach to a time carb diet:

An every other day timed-carb diet. Yes, this is exactly what it sounds like. On day one you consume low or no carbs. On day two, you have a normal carb day. Repeat process indefinitely. Pretty simple huh? It works, and works well as long as you understand that the rate of fatloss will be half or less than half of a normal timed carb diet. And of course you can play with the ratios indefinitely, so you can do two days no carbs, one day carbs or vice versa.

Another approach, and one that works well for people that tend to be somewhat hypoglycemic is doing a half-day no carb, half-day carb. What works best is consuming carbs in the morning and then having a carb cut-off at a specified time, say two o'clock in the afternoon. After your carb cutoff, no carbs are consumed and the diet consists of protein and fat. This will allow fat to be burned at a more rapid pace than if carbs are consumed during those hours. Of course it is a compromise, but significant amounts of body fat can be lost over time, and it is a pretty comfortable diet to do. That is unless you get visions of ice cream dancing in your head about eight o'clock while watching TV—lol.

Remember low-calorie moderate to high carbohydrate diets will drop scale weight. The problem is, a lot of the weight lost will be muscle because insulin shots down the enzymatic process that allows body fat to be liberated. Insulin control is really what we are after here, no carbs = no insulin= body fat liberated = muscle preserved--simple as that! I hope these options gave you a couple more ideas for those that are hesitant or just don't have the willpower to go too long without their favorite carbs.

Iron Addict
 
Can I run this diet with gear or will I not grow as well?
6' 220lbs
17%bf
32 years old
I currently do tred mill 5 days aweek at highest incline at 3.5mph and weight train 4 days per week
I want 2 be under 10%bf by spring if posible
 
Can I run this diet with gear or will I not grow as well?
6' 220lbs
17%bf
32 years old
I currently do tred mill 5 days aweek at highest incline at 3.5mph and weight train 4 days per week
I want 2 be under 10%bf by spring if posible

You can do anything without gear man.
 
Thats not the answer I was looking for. I know I can do it with out gear. I want to know if this diet would work while on gear to help reduce bf or would it keep me from growing.
 
Can I run this diet with gear or will I not grow as well?
6' 220lbs
17%bf
32 years old
I currently do tred mill 5 days aweek at highest incline at 3.5mph and weight train 4 days per week
I want 2 be under 10%bf by spring if posible

The idea that yuo can lose bodyfat AND gain muscle at the same time is unrealistic for most. It takes superior genetics, and REALLY knowing what yuo are doing in ALL aspects of yuor program - drugs, diet, training and cardio/conditioning.

Given yuor stats and the level of knowledge displayed by yuor questions, it would be a good idea to focus on one goal or the other while learning a great deal more about the factors mentioned that are needed for success.
 
Thanks Dad for a clear answer. I will now just concentrate on growth during my cycle.
10 weeks of sust, then 4 weeks test prop and win then pct.
I eat 6 meals a day right now at about 3000 cal. off cycle.
(eggs, chicken, lean beef, turkey, oatmeal, brocc, green beans,sweet potatoes, flax oil, LBAs, protein shakes, waxy corn maize, multi v, plazmavol, wtf pumped)
protein 400g
carb 270g
fat 45g

What would you adjust when on gear?
 
Well, adjustment sort of depends on what yuo're doing and how yuo respond.

If yuo're going to do some aerobic stuff with this, AND yuor goal is growth, yuo're probably going to need more carbs than 270 gms daily. Try, say, 350 gms daily, keep it low glycemic except immediately after training, and see how this works. It's going to take a few weeks for the sust to "kick in," but yuo shuold be seeing some weight increase at that point.

If it seems like yuo're "smoothing out," get on some anti-estrogens (which I think yuo shuold do all throughout yuor cycle) and see if it's water. If not, then yuo can cut back the carbs a bit and/or think about adjust or adding any aerobics.
 

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