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OK – now that I got your attention!
I really want to compliment everyone that contributed in the Vander’s training Principals thread! There were no threats made, crass name-calling, only people stating their mind. Try going to another board and read a thread this long without any of that and they're far and few between.
It does go to show you as individuals, we can be very “opinionated.” I’m just going to post another view on what I call “bodybuilding” or in other terms – increasing one’s muscle mass. Just going to do it via “storybook” way.
I used to race motorcycles competitively (expert/amateur level), mainly cross-country events, like hare and hound (desert racing), ISDE (rode several national qualifiers), and some enduros. I started lifting weights to improve my strength for riding.
After really hitting the weights hard, as many “beginners” do, people started to notice my gains. I really liked this and decided to switch my focus to bodybuilding. Then, same as most beginners, my results stagnated – but I didn’t give up. My thoughts were – there has to be special way to workout to get those big muscles. I was exposed to steroid use and people who used, but still felt steroids weren’t the secret.
Prior to attending my first bodybuilding contest, I attended a seminar that was associated with the contest, it was held at Giant’s (Phil probably knows where I’m talking about). There was a speaker on working out (a chiropractor), on supplements (Natural Supplement Manufacturer rep) and on “Nutrition,” which was a former “state” bodybuilding champ. The last speaker is the one that caught my attention! He started out his talk by saying “if a bodybuilder were to tell you his secret - - it would be HOW HE EATS!” He went on to say that everyone knows you need to workout, but if your not fueling the body properly, it ain’t gonna happen. Remember, I’m sitting there thinking I need to figure out a workout that will make me the strongest man on earth and I hear this! I’m thinking – I can learn how to eat!
This guy did nutritional programs based on one’s activity and body mass. He used ultrasound readings and a computer program to determine this. This machine is used in the cattle industry and can measure skin thickness, fat or muscle thickness – get the idea. He measures people’s BF at “specific” points along with their activity level into his program. The result is your caloric program in a layout of how to accomplish this. One of the important things it focused on was eating 5 times a day, which was unheard of by me. He emphasized breakfast as the most important meal of the day – it’s “breaking the overnight fast.”
I followed his program to a “T.” After 10 days, I had to give a phone call and tell him that everyone in the gym was asking me what I was doing. I was weighing myself daily and it wasn’t changing much, going down some – he said he wanted to see me. In 4 days, he was going to be at a gym at the adjoining town – I met him there, where he took another measurement. After taking the measurement, he asked me what the hell I’d been doing. I told him only what he’d told me to do. He said I went from 15% BF to 10% in 14 days and gained some LBM! He said if I was willing to do as he said, he’d train me for free – cause it seemed like almost everyone he worked with wanted to modify what he told them.
During his presentation, he showed slides of CT scans of a thigh and waist – one of someone fat and a “lean” person. He want me to get CT scans when he said to – I agreed.
After 6 weeks I was 5% BF and wanted to a bb’ing contest. I got down to about 4.5% and was REALLY DISAPPOINTED with size – said "I’ll NEVER compete that small again." The funny thing is, at that first contest they were awarding “best bodyparts,” which they commonly did at contests those days. The ONLY ab comparison they did was between the winner and me – we were both in the same class too. I did get quite a few comment in the warmup area about my abs.
Now here’s my $0.02 in workouts. Too many people associate the term HIT with Mentzer, since he published his popular book. My definition of High Intensity Training is doing more in a less amount of time – MANY ways/methods to accomplish this. I consider Arthur Jones, Rest/Pause, Drop Sets, Big A’s and many others as HIT. Then there’s “Volume Training,” which could be medium or high volume. Most people (not genetically gifted – you’ll see what I mean later in this post), including myself, will overtrain with this type of program. Most magazines seem to thrive on some sort of volume training – they’re in business to sell magazines, not train people.
Like I stated in my post in the Vander’s Training thread, a body will adjust/acclimate to a load imposed on it. So after a “certain” amount of time (different for everyone and based on type of routine – LOTS of variables), you need to change, do something different. Variety
Form is another issue to consider. How many here can bench 225 for 10 reps – probably most people here. How many can do 225 for 10 reps but taking 10 seconds to lower the weight AND 10 seconds to raise – much more difficult isn’t it, but same amount of weight. I’ll refer back to when I began to lift, like most beginners, poor form and technique – but was able to initially make gains, not tremendous, but gains nonetheless. Take the technique utilized by Olympic lifters – some pretty small people able to lift amazing amounts of weight for their size. If lifting heavy weights was what it took to become a “freak,” how come they are so relatively small?!?! Their explosive movements incorporate momentum into the technique
Using myself as an example, someone in the gym can watch me bench and say “you use poor technique.” I don’t go all the way to my chest or fully extend. So it doesn’t matter I’m only doing 315 for 5 reps at a speed that’s 1/3 of what they do and my chest is much bigger than theirs. I have a spotter (big Samoan, 5’ 8” 260 lb’er) who’s a trainer and is ALWAYS harping on people (not newbies either) to slow down when doing bench. When he’s spotting me, he’s screaming at me to pickup the speed - LOL
You can watch me swing as I do 135 lb barbell curls and say wow you’re not using your arms – and I wonder how do “they” really know that? Then they look at my biceps and say “hhmmmm?” Do they know the mental focus that I’m exerting on my arms? I in turn think, they have perfect form when doin’ 65 lb bar curls but their arms are relatively small (maybe somewhat cut but far from large)?!?!
I guess what I’m trying to say is “there are SO MANY variables" in this game.
Do you really understand my signature? Are you really listening to your body and adjusting accordingly when you train or are you just going through the motions.
Another thing is “Visualization.” You've got to see and keep telling yourself that you’re making progress (yes – positive thinking). If you’re questioning or telling yourself you’re not doing the right thing, or not focusing on goals, you’ll probably do just that.
I really want to compliment everyone that contributed in the Vander’s training Principals thread! There were no threats made, crass name-calling, only people stating their mind. Try going to another board and read a thread this long without any of that and they're far and few between.
It does go to show you as individuals, we can be very “opinionated.” I’m just going to post another view on what I call “bodybuilding” or in other terms – increasing one’s muscle mass. Just going to do it via “storybook” way.
I used to race motorcycles competitively (expert/amateur level), mainly cross-country events, like hare and hound (desert racing), ISDE (rode several national qualifiers), and some enduros. I started lifting weights to improve my strength for riding.
After really hitting the weights hard, as many “beginners” do, people started to notice my gains. I really liked this and decided to switch my focus to bodybuilding. Then, same as most beginners, my results stagnated – but I didn’t give up. My thoughts were – there has to be special way to workout to get those big muscles. I was exposed to steroid use and people who used, but still felt steroids weren’t the secret.
Prior to attending my first bodybuilding contest, I attended a seminar that was associated with the contest, it was held at Giant’s (Phil probably knows where I’m talking about). There was a speaker on working out (a chiropractor), on supplements (Natural Supplement Manufacturer rep) and on “Nutrition,” which was a former “state” bodybuilding champ. The last speaker is the one that caught my attention! He started out his talk by saying “if a bodybuilder were to tell you his secret - - it would be HOW HE EATS!” He went on to say that everyone knows you need to workout, but if your not fueling the body properly, it ain’t gonna happen. Remember, I’m sitting there thinking I need to figure out a workout that will make me the strongest man on earth and I hear this! I’m thinking – I can learn how to eat!
This guy did nutritional programs based on one’s activity and body mass. He used ultrasound readings and a computer program to determine this. This machine is used in the cattle industry and can measure skin thickness, fat or muscle thickness – get the idea. He measures people’s BF at “specific” points along with their activity level into his program. The result is your caloric program in a layout of how to accomplish this. One of the important things it focused on was eating 5 times a day, which was unheard of by me. He emphasized breakfast as the most important meal of the day – it’s “breaking the overnight fast.”
I followed his program to a “T.” After 10 days, I had to give a phone call and tell him that everyone in the gym was asking me what I was doing. I was weighing myself daily and it wasn’t changing much, going down some – he said he wanted to see me. In 4 days, he was going to be at a gym at the adjoining town – I met him there, where he took another measurement. After taking the measurement, he asked me what the hell I’d been doing. I told him only what he’d told me to do. He said I went from 15% BF to 10% in 14 days and gained some LBM! He said if I was willing to do as he said, he’d train me for free – cause it seemed like almost everyone he worked with wanted to modify what he told them.
During his presentation, he showed slides of CT scans of a thigh and waist – one of someone fat and a “lean” person. He want me to get CT scans when he said to – I agreed.
After 6 weeks I was 5% BF and wanted to a bb’ing contest. I got down to about 4.5% and was REALLY DISAPPOINTED with size – said "I’ll NEVER compete that small again." The funny thing is, at that first contest they were awarding “best bodyparts,” which they commonly did at contests those days. The ONLY ab comparison they did was between the winner and me – we were both in the same class too. I did get quite a few comment in the warmup area about my abs.
Now here’s my $0.02 in workouts. Too many people associate the term HIT with Mentzer, since he published his popular book. My definition of High Intensity Training is doing more in a less amount of time – MANY ways/methods to accomplish this. I consider Arthur Jones, Rest/Pause, Drop Sets, Big A’s and many others as HIT. Then there’s “Volume Training,” which could be medium or high volume. Most people (not genetically gifted – you’ll see what I mean later in this post), including myself, will overtrain with this type of program. Most magazines seem to thrive on some sort of volume training – they’re in business to sell magazines, not train people.
Like I stated in my post in the Vander’s Training thread, a body will adjust/acclimate to a load imposed on it. So after a “certain” amount of time (different for everyone and based on type of routine – LOTS of variables), you need to change, do something different. Variety
Form is another issue to consider. How many here can bench 225 for 10 reps – probably most people here. How many can do 225 for 10 reps but taking 10 seconds to lower the weight AND 10 seconds to raise – much more difficult isn’t it, but same amount of weight. I’ll refer back to when I began to lift, like most beginners, poor form and technique – but was able to initially make gains, not tremendous, but gains nonetheless. Take the technique utilized by Olympic lifters – some pretty small people able to lift amazing amounts of weight for their size. If lifting heavy weights was what it took to become a “freak,” how come they are so relatively small?!?! Their explosive movements incorporate momentum into the technique
Using myself as an example, someone in the gym can watch me bench and say “you use poor technique.” I don’t go all the way to my chest or fully extend. So it doesn’t matter I’m only doing 315 for 5 reps at a speed that’s 1/3 of what they do and my chest is much bigger than theirs. I have a spotter (big Samoan, 5’ 8” 260 lb’er) who’s a trainer and is ALWAYS harping on people (not newbies either) to slow down when doing bench. When he’s spotting me, he’s screaming at me to pickup the speed - LOL
You can watch me swing as I do 135 lb barbell curls and say wow you’re not using your arms – and I wonder how do “they” really know that? Then they look at my biceps and say “hhmmmm?” Do they know the mental focus that I’m exerting on my arms? I in turn think, they have perfect form when doin’ 65 lb bar curls but their arms are relatively small (maybe somewhat cut but far from large)?!?!
I guess what I’m trying to say is “there are SO MANY variables" in this game.
And I’ll add, the more genetically gifted you are, the more you can get away with. Don’t agree with me? I’m not saying that if you’re not genetically gifted that you can’t build a competitive bodybuilding body. Fact is there are Ectomorph (skinny), Endomorph (heavy) and Mesomorphs (muscular).LATS said:.. he said that all programs work when on aas.. his reasoning was that if you take high enough levels of test and eat a protein rich diet, you will gain muscle with out touching a weight.. not a ton but, you will gain..now, all that is missing is the stimulous of muscle trauma to really give the gear the ability to work its wonders.. he said that all that mattered was that you used maximum weight.. tear it down.. then go home and eat.. eat.. eat.. rest.. rest.. rest.. the gear just needed the stimulous to work its wonders.. this does not mean to be lazy and not train hard.. train your ass off but, the biggest priority is eating and rest.. stimulate then get the hell out of there.. eat after and get the response you Are looking for.. now, like i have said before.. and magoo and dc and phil ect the more you are able to stimulate a growth response the better the gains will be.. do just enough to get a growth response.. rest.. hit it again..
I think that statement summed it up nicely.BigBoyJ said:
Do you really understand my signature? Are you really listening to your body and adjusting accordingly when you train or are you just going through the motions.
Another thing is “Visualization.” You've got to see and keep telling yourself that you’re making progress (yes – positive thinking). If you’re questioning or telling yourself you’re not doing the right thing, or not focusing on goals, you’ll probably do just that.
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