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IGF-1 LR3 and "Methods" of PREVENTING Hypo? http://sciroxxonline.com/

reebokrunner456

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384
Figured I'd start a new thread since the older ones I found do not really focus on "prevention measures" if you will; I've given a few examples (from other threads) toward the end. More SPECIFICS would be super helpful, such as knowing the amount of IGF-1 you are dosing AND the grams of carbs that you "timed it" around (approximate is fine too)... or anything else for that matter (i.e. like if you didn't even need to add a certain number of carbs but instead found that taking X IUs of HGH for instance, X mins/hours apart from the IGF-1 countered the hypo).

Ashop: You have to make sure you eat plenty and often is what Ive found when I was on IGF1LR3. Ive felt they hypo feeling you described too. eating often stopped it for me. https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...s/going-hypo-from-igf-1-lr3.36824/post-433274
My comments: Just HOW MANY meals were effective in combating the hypo and appropriate number of cals/carbs for each? And dose of LR3 taken that resulted in this? Were you also taking HGH or anything else that is known to cause hypo?

stanio115: i was wondering the same thing untill a month ago hwen i start shooting igf1lr3 and humulin r daily....just with the igf - never went hypo, even if i dont eat enough carbs- i d say it s pretty safe - of course i'm using it at only 50-100mcg a day....with humilin if i keep the protocol fro 1 iu per 15 lbs of bodyweight and 10 g of carbs per 1 iu- its generally safe as well. I take my first carb meal immediately after the shot and check my blood shugar every 30 mins for the next 4 hrs...usually around the 2nd hour my sugar levels start going around the border of 60 afetr which i take my next carb meal...
https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...s/going-hypo-from-igf-1-lr3.36824/post-429823
 
As outlined here - https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...hen-some-recovery-etc-log.175059/post-3204073 - I was VERY PLEASANTLY surprised to experience the POLAR opposite of what I was "fearing": not only don't I feel any "hypo" / "hyper" since having pinned (2+ hrs right now, post- 20 mcg IGF-1 LR3), I feel among the most balanced EVER, of ANYTHING I've ever taken to date to help with my hunger / blood sugar. I figured I'd post those details (related to hunger / blood sugar) here:

Overview:
Based on some OLD labs, there is clear evidence (see below) that postprandially, I was going either modestly HYPO- OR modestly HYPER- glycemic. Despite being rather dated (these labs were taken nearly 20 years ago), and despite, feeling WORLDS BETTER now since those labs were taken, many of the old *patterns* are still present today; although typically to a lesser/much lesser degree. *By this I'm referring to how I feel in response to: certain foods, certain macros, meal timing, and meal quantity).

For example:
For as long as I can remember: I do MUCH BETTER eating BIG / INFREQUENT meals VS LITTLE 'N' OFTEN. And (even now) if "true hunger" prompts me to eat a SMALL quantity of something mid-day, then JUST fruit or JUST protein powder (without fat), or even a small combination of EACH tends to make me feel like shit (hypo OR hyper) a very short while later (i.e. usually within just 30-45 minutes).​

Currently, a mid-day snack can be often be achieved without feeling like shit with the addition of some fat (ideally MCTs); but this is FAR LESS effective after an "overnight fast" (i.e. after Meal 1 of the day).

Thus, given that the feeling of hypo/hyper/whatever the hell is going on with me postprandially is MUCH worse: after my 1st meal of the day AND WITHOUT sufficient fat consumed (at any given meal), the fact that I pulled off BOTH this morning (with flying colors) after taking the IGF-1 LR3... then lasted ~1.5 hrs before ***TRUE HUNGER prompted me to eat again, is truly amazing and NOT AN ACCIDENT!

***ALSO NOTE: I've said this in my other post but it's worth saying again: "objectively speaking" the IGF-1 DID NOT trigger "true hunger" either: lately, my NORMAL-sized breakfast (Meal #1) has been around 600-900 calories (with anything under 600 calories being EXCELLENT). The "Meal #1" I'd consumed 15 minutes PRE-pinning the IGF-1 was a mere 166 calories (I kept it small in the event the IGF-1 resulted in me needing to POUND food). Also, even with the [mini] Meal #2, I am under 425 calories = well under MY normal quantity (600-900 calories) consumed by this time of day/late morning)

History/Past Labs:
Consistent with my subjective symptoms at the time, (where I felt what I'd often call this 'NEED TO EAT NOW!!!' feeling (that was TRIGGERED shortly… after eating – i.e. post-prandial hypo?/hyper? glycemia), all labs I had done where bloodwork was pulled shortly after my morning meal (= a balance of carbs / fats / protein, with NO extreme macros), were consistent with what I was feeling: post-prandial glucose was: 43, 64, & 57. Back then (and through the present, as I'll still have basic labs done every 1-2 years), my FASTING blood glucose was/is always normal (usually mid 80's).

The (near 20 yr old) labs from my glucose tolerance w/ insulin challenge "test" painted a VERY DIFFERENT picture "post-prandially" (if you even define the disgusting sugary orange drink as a "meal"). I'm not sure if it's still done this way today, but back then: they'd draw blood at time 0 (which is your fasting labs), then pretty much right after that, they'd hand you this disgusting sugary orange drink, finally, you'd sit in the waiting room and get called back at various timepoints to get more bloodwork pulled. My test was a 2 hr one but I think there is a version of it where labs can be pulled at more time points if one's doctor orders it). So for me, results were as follows:

Fasting/time zero Glucose:
86 mg/dL (normal range listed: 65 to 99; impaired: 100-125; diabetes: > 125)
Fasting/time zero Insulin: 4 Micro IU/mL (normal = Less than 17)

1-hr Glucose: 192 mg/dL (normal range listed: "Not established"; impaired: [literally blank]; diabetes: > 200)
1-hr Insulin: 110 Micro IU/mL (normal = 8 to 112)

2-hr Glucose: 121 mg/dL (normal range listed: < 140; "impaired": 140 to 200; and "diabetes still >200)
2-hr Insulin: 151 Micro IU/mL (normal = 5 to 55)


Obviously, (for the parameters at the 1 hr mark), I was pretty damn close to falling in to the "diabetes" range despite the insulin still being within the normal range… yet by the 2 hr mark, glucose was back down to normal but insulin was through the fucking roof (almost 3x higher than the UPPER value of the normal range). Off-memory, I think the doctor had concluded: delayed insulin response, that then led to overcompensation of insulin (hence the insulin surge around the 2 hr mark). However, from what I know now, this is not necessarily correct; i.e. since the 1 hr insulin was normal, we just don't know, (without pulling labs at earlier time points between fasting and the 1 hr mark), if the insulin response really was delayed… more than likely, it was a normal response but there was desensitization (receptors failing to respond to the insulin), thereby leading to the insulin 'surge'.

Despite all of this, (and despite the potential for HGH to lead to hyperglycemia / diabetes if timed wrong / used incorrectly), HGH has done NOTHING but help me over the years and balance me (subjectively) as I've never had post-prandial labs while taking it. That said, I am careful to time HGH well away from meals (ideally shooting for a MINIMUM or 2 hrs on either end, often way longer); and on the RARE occasion where I do have to eat right after pinning, it is virtually 100% protein, like straight up chicken without sauces/seasonings. But given how I've always responded so freaking well to HGH (and many have noted IGF-1 can be rather opposite in terms of the blood-sugar effects), I was preparing for the worst in terms of how IGF-1 might impact me!

Conclusions:
Based on my immediate response to the IGF-1 LR3 thus far (3.25+ hr mark as of right now), which has been EXTREMELY positive and not only demonstrates a total absence of any hypo/hyper symptoms but has actually ELIMINATED the mild to low-grade moderate hypo/hyper symptoms that I'd grown accustomed to living with, it sure seems that my 'current baseline' (i.e. how I subjectively feel, post-prandially, without any HGH, IGF-1, etc. in the system) was actually HYPER- (VS HYPO-) glycemia.

In other words, since IGF-1 is KNOWN to cause HYPO in many, then (if my body was "naturally" going in to a state of HYPO, postprandially (as a result of the IGF-1), I'd expect my "baseline symptoms" to WORSEN; however, this did not happen and instead my "baseline symptoms" were ELIMINATED as a result of the IGF-1; leading me to conclude that the shakiness / inability to concentrate / fatigue (that I still get a touch of after a meal with NOTHING in my system) was in fact HYPER- (VS HYPO-) glycemia.
 
So, I finally felt some HYPO (I'm guessing it was HYPO), but in my case it was:
  • Totally 'SELF-INDUCED' (not on purpose but mainly from me getting sidetracked for a full 2 hr 45 minutes after pinning the IGF-1 LR3 & before eating again)... AND also a "contributing factor" is likely due to the fact that I'm NORMALLY around the 600-900 calorie mark by this point in the day... VS when the hypo came on, I'd had only 211 calories in my system from ~3 hrs prior. Needless to say, I was not exaggerating about the superb hunger control I'm getting from the IGF-1 LR3 😎 Even while sedentary / eating less, for me to make it past noon with barely over 200 calories in the system = no small feat if making an EFFORT to do so VS today where it happened without me even trying! This is incredible and DOES NOT HAPPEN (on its own / w/ nothing in the system), given MY baseline HIGH hunger.

  • EXTREMELY tolerable (the hypo was FAR LESS prominent than the "normal" hypo I get while following 'The Pain and the Ass Diet' (which I'm still on); and also FAR LESS bothersome than when my true hunger (actually physical feeling of hunger pangs in the stomach) hits hard

  • VERY CORRECTABLE (took me like 20-30 minutes to cook up some beef sausage & eggs since I'm down to my last kitchen pan and have to cook one after the other) but while I was doing all that, I had a mere 77 g (= under 50 calories worth) of raspberries that had me feeling practically normal within a minute or two)
Quite honestly, I'd rather feel this type of hypo than true hunger! NOTHING scary in the slightest.

It's also incredible to now (ever since starting the IGF-1 LR3) be able to EFFORTLESSLY adhere to "The Pain and the Ass Diet" = a diet that is KNOWN to exacerbate my hypo/hyper symptoms (which I've stated well before starting the IGF-1 LR3). My poor Doctor, LOL! He's kind enough to give his patients a diet (that is SUPER sound/solid) in order to help optimize the healing and I go and give it such a nickname. But what can I say!?! With, (obviously MY less than perfect glucose / insulin / etc levels), I struggle a bit to follow the diet and also needed a way to "quickly" explain to friends why I refuse to eat out, try certain foods, etc. during the first X number of weeks post-op... and with a name like that, everyone remembers. 😄
 
As outlined here - https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...hen-some-recovery-etc-log.175059/post-3204073 - I was VERY PLEASANTLY surprised to experience the POLAR opposite of what I was "fearing": not only don't I feel any "hypo" / "hyper" since having pinned (2+ hrs right now, post- 20 mcg IGF-1 LR3), I feel among the most balanced EVER, of ANYTHING I've ever taken to date to help with my hunger / blood sugar. I figured I'd post those details (related to hunger / blood sugar) here:

Overview:
Based on some OLD labs, there is clear evidence (see below) that postprandially, I was going either modestly HYPO- OR modestly HYPER- glycemic. Despite being rather dated (these labs were taken nearly 20 years ago), and despite, feeling WORLDS BETTER now since those labs were taken, many of the old *patterns* are still present today; although typically to a lesser/much lesser degree. *By this I'm referring to how I feel in response to: certain foods, certain macros, meal timing, and meal quantity).

For example:
For as long as I can remember: I do MUCH BETTER eating BIG / INFREQUENT meals VS LITTLE 'N' OFTEN. And (even now) if "true hunger" prompts me to eat a SMALL quantity of something mid-day, then JUST fruit or JUST protein powder (without fat), or even a small combination of EACH tends to make me feel like shit (hypo OR hyper) a very short while later (i.e. usually within just 30-45 minutes).​

Currently, a mid-day snack can be often be achieved without feeling like shit with the addition of some fat (ideally MCTs); but this is FAR LESS effective after an "overnight fast" (i.e. after Meal 1 of the day).

Thus, given that the feeling of hypo/hyper/whatever the hell is going on with me postprandially is MUCH worse: after my 1st meal of the day AND WITHOUT sufficient fat consumed (at any given meal), the fact that I pulled off BOTH this morning (with flying colors) after taking the IGF-1 LR3... then lasted ~1.5 hrs before ***TRUE HUNGER prompted me to eat again, is truly amazing and NOT AN ACCIDENT!

***ALSO NOTE: I've said this in my other post but it's worth saying again: "objectively speaking" the IGF-1 DID NOT trigger "true hunger" either: lately, my NORMAL-sized breakfast (Meal #1) has been around 600-900 calories (with anything under 600 calories being EXCELLENT). The "Meal #1" I'd consumed 15 minutes PRE-pinning the IGF-1 was a mere 166 calories (I kept it small in the event the IGF-1 resulted in me needing to POUND food). Also, even with the [mini] Meal #2, I am under 425 calories = well under MY normal quantity (600-900 calories) consumed by this time of day/late morning)

History/Past Labs:
Consistent with my subjective symptoms at the time, (where I felt what I'd often call this 'NEED TO EAT NOW!!!' feeling (that was TRIGGERED shortly… after eating – i.e. post-prandial hypo?/hyper? glycemia), all labs I had done where bloodwork was pulled shortly after my morning meal (= a balance of carbs / fats / protein, with NO extreme macros), were consistent with what I was feeling: post-prandial glucose was: 43, 64, & 57. Back then (and through the present, as I'll still have basic labs done every 1-2 years), my FASTING blood glucose was/is always normal (usually mid 80's).

The (near 20 yr old) labs from my glucose tolerance w/ insulin challenge "test" painted a VERY DIFFERENT picture "post-prandially" (if you even define the disgusting sugary orange drink as a "meal"). I'm not sure if it's still done this way today, but back then: they'd draw blood at time 0 (which is your fasting labs), then pretty much right after that, they'd hand you this disgusting sugary orange drink, finally, you'd sit in the waiting room and get called back at various timepoints to get more bloodwork pulled. My test was a 2 hr one but I think there is a version of it where labs can be pulled at more time points if one's doctor orders it). So for me, results were as follows:

Fasting/time zero Glucose:
86 mg/dL (normal range listed: 65 to 99; impaired: 100-125; diabetes: > 125)
Fasting/time zero Insulin: 4 Micro IU/mL (normal = Less than 17)

1-hr Glucose: 192 mg/dL (normal range listed: "Not established"; impaired: [literally blank]; diabetes: > 200)
1-hr Insulin: 110 Micro IU/mL (normal = 8 to 112)

2-hr Glucose: 121 mg/dL (normal range listed: < 140; "impaired": 140 to 200; and "diabetes still >200)
2-hr Insulin: 151 Micro IU/mL (normal = 5 to 55)


Obviously, (for the parameters at the 1 hr mark), I was pretty damn close to falling in to the "diabetes" range despite the insulin still being within the normal range… yet by the 2 hr mark, glucose was back down to normal but insulin was through the fucking roof (almost 3x higher than the UPPER value of the normal range). Off-memory, I think the doctor had concluded: delayed insulin response, that then led to overcompensation of insulin (hence the insulin surge around the 2 hr mark). However, from what I know now, this is not necessarily correct; i.e. since the 1 hr insulin was normal, we just don't know, (without pulling labs at earlier time points between fasting and the 1 hr mark), if the insulin response really was delayed… more than likely, it was a normal response but there was desensitization (receptors failing to respond to the insulin), thereby leading to the insulin 'surge'.

Despite all of this, (and despite the potential for HGH to lead to hyperglycemia / diabetes if timed wrong / used incorrectly), HGH has done NOTHING but help me over the years and balance me (subjectively) as I've never had post-prandial labs while taking it. That said, I am careful to time HGH well away from meals (ideally shooting for a MINIMUM or 2 hrs on either end, often way longer); and on the RARE occasion where I do have to eat right after pinning, it is virtually 100% protein, like straight up chicken without sauces/seasonings. But given how I've always responded so freaking well to HGH (and many have noted IGF-1 can be rather opposite in terms of the blood-sugar effects), I was preparing for the worst in terms of how IGF-1 might impact me!

Conclusions:
Based on my immediate response to the IGF-1 LR3 thus far (3.25+ hr mark as of right now), which has been EXTREMELY positive and not only demonstrates a total absence of any hypo/hyper symptoms but has actually ELIMINATED the mild to low-grade moderate hypo/hyper symptoms that I'd grown accustomed to living with, it sure seems that my 'current baseline' (i.e. how I subjectively feel, post-prandially, without any HGH, IGF-1, etc. in the system) was actually HYPER- (VS HYPO-) glycemia.

In other words, since IGF-1 is KNOWN to cause HYPO in many, then (if my body was "naturally" going in to a state of HYPO, postprandially (as a result of the IGF-1), I'd expect my "baseline symptoms" to WORSEN; however, this did not happen and instead my "baseline symptoms" were ELIMINATED as a result of the IGF-1; leading me to conclude that the shakiness / inability to concentrate / fatigue (that I still get a touch of after a meal with NOTHING in my system) was in fact HYPER- (VS HYPO-) glycemia.
20mcg…..is this a typo? No wonder nothing was felt, what is the point of such a dose?
 
100mcg minimum or don’t bother
 

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