INTERESTING TRAINING FACT/TIDBIT

[PHIL HERNON]

STUDIES SHOW THAT IF YOU ARE DOING AN ISOMETRIC EXERCISE SUCH AS WALL SQUATS......SAY 90 DEGREE ANGLE.....YOU WILL BUILD STRENGTH INTO THE 70 DEGREE TO 110 DEGREE RANGE........IT IS CALLED CARRYOVER.....AND CAN BE APPLIED TO SHORTER REP TRAINING. THIS IS WHY I NEVER ADVOCATE FULL RANGE REPS, ALONG WITH THE INJURY FACTOR.

 

[diesel158]

I get it. That is a good tip.

 

[phatkid77]

so basically,. you know what u are talking abot...lol

me like the rep range you suggest

 

[Ness]

yes...and I can lift much heavier as a result. Also, from what Ive noticed, if I slip into a full range rep it "feels" dangerous.

 

[Sesshomaru]

The literature Ive seen says

'that the strength gains from an isometric regimen occur chiefly at the joint angles being worked (Roman 1986, Kurz 2001), although there is a positive transfer of 20 to 50% of the strength gained in a 20-degree range (working angle +/- 20 degrees)."

and the following caveat:

Yes, it can help increase strength and size. But without a
concurrent dynamic (yielding and overcoming) program the gains will be slow. In fact, some coaches noted that gains from isometric exercises stop after 6-8 weeks of use (Medvedyev 1986). So while isometric action training can be very helpful to work on a weak point or improve an athlete’s capacity to activate motor-units, it should only be used for short periods of time when progress has slowed down or when a rapid strength improvement is needed

 

[Quad-smack]

Also keeps the muscle under tension - no locking out or resting at the bottom...

 

[CHAPS]

I train DC style and i find that the static reps i use for that have helped growth and strength, actually i forgot to do them for 3 weeks for bi's and then when i implemented them again i made the following gains on alternate db curls, +4 reps, week 2 5lbs + 2 reps reps, week + 4 reps. I LOVE static reps now, they have really helped my bi's, tri's and calfs. That's interesting info Phil i used to laugh at ppl doing wall sit's but now i realize their is something this whole static rep thing

 

[vintagemuscle]

In the late 1960's we used an isometric power rack for squats, deadlifts and overhead presses to build strength for football. I laugh now when I remember how hard those workouts were.

Vintagemuscle

 

[mrsoul]

i dont understand. everyone always says bottom out on squats.

 

[edge250]

STUDIES SHOW THAT IF YOU ARE DOING AN ISOMETRIC EXERCISE SUCH AS WALL SQUATS......SAY 90 DEGREE ANGLE.....YOU WILL BUILD STRENGTH INTO THE 70 DEGREE TO 110 DEGREE RANGE........IT IS CALLED CARRYOVER.....AND CAN BE APPLIED TO SHORTER REP TRAINING. THIS IS WHY I NEVER ADVOCATE FULL RANGE REPS, ALONG WITH THE INJURY FACTOR.

ok after reading it 12x i get it. my knees kill me when i partial squat though. they dont when i go full range.

 

[Sesshomaru]

i dont understand. everyone always says bottom out on squats.

Isometrics have their place and are a tool just like anything else that make work for some and not for others (i.e. Edge250). As I posted above, you still would make better gains if you did some eccentric and concentric work, and the gains from isometrics have a short lifespans before needed to change things up.

That said, I dont feel that isometrics are any more safer or dangerous than full range of motion. The injury potential from either still depends on volume, overuse, progression, load, form, etc.

To use them as the only means of work is very limiting esp if you have no good reason to do so.

 

[Mr_Magoo]

STUDIES SHOW THAT IF YOU ARE DOING AN ISOMETRIC EXERCISE SUCH AS WALL SQUATS......SAY 90 DEGREE ANGLE.....YOU WILL BUILD STRENGTH INTO THE 70 DEGREE TO 110 DEGREE RANGE........IT IS CALLED CARRYOVER.....AND CAN BE APPLIED TO SHORTER REP TRAINING. THIS IS WHY I NEVER ADVOCATE FULL RANGE REPS, ALONG WITH THE INJURY FACTOR.

the carryover factor is true but the extent to which people benefit from it varies greatly some may get a 30-40 percent carryover while others may get 5-10 percent.

Phil, Correct me if i am wrong, but if u were to have someone do a full range of motion it would be split up into sets using partial reps in the bottom, middle and top or something similar to this

i guess i just have to disagree bc everyone i know who does partial reps and only partial reps get partial to no results (sorry to sound like a cute line in a Bodybuilding Mag, I do however appreciate u not naming this thread, "Short reps for Huge GAINS!)

Now Ness said that when he "slips" into a full range rep it feels dangerous, thats because u dont have the flexibilty of in ur muscles to do so.

and u can't get a carryover to a range of motion u never train in because u never actually see or test the progress, and i think someone else mentioned this already but the isometric training is done in conjunction to full range reps

from a personal point of view i believe if we can squat ass to heels safely we should work our bodies the the healthy range of motion it is meant to have , plus i love deep squats, no one can call me on depth and as a sidenote, i have found that one of the best things i ever did for chest was cambered bar Incline press with a nice mean stretch at the bottom, no bounce or u will hurt ur self

one needs to be strong in all ranges of motion because if u slip into a range of motion u never use because u used too much weight ur more fucked than if u used too much weight but train in that range of motion ur fucked in

i actually got a training tip i'll put in another thread not to hijack this one

 

[btech]

So, are we agreeing to stop right above parallel?

 

[Sesshomaru]

So, are we agreeing to stop right above parallel?

Id say train the full range of motion because thats got the most carryover from functional anatomy standpoint. Isometrics are a training tool that may or may not work for someone but even if they do, you still need concentric and eccentric work for adequate development.

So Id say, train the ROM as far as flexibility and good form allow while keeping proper progression and volume in mind so that you dont tear something if youre on aas.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

I was pointing out a fact.........I am not saying that I use isometrics in my training.......my clients know what I am getting at here, hahaaahhahaha...to each their own.

 

[Sesshomaru]

I was pointing out a fact.........I am not saying that I use isometrics in my training.......my clients know what I am getting at here, hahaaahhahaha...to each their own.

Ummmm ok?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

AND.....

Ummmm ok?

I THINK YOU WERE GOING SOMEPLACE WITH THIS THREAD THAT WAS NOT INTENDED......HEY, ITS YOUR CALL, JUST DONT CONFUSE WHAT I SAID........MAYBE YOU SHOULD REREAD MY ORIGINAL POST.

 

[muscledoc1]

Does a hack-squat cosidered an isometric movement?

 

[Sesshomaru]

I THINK YOU WERE GOING SOMEPLACE WITH THIS THREAD THAT WAS NOT INTENDED......HEY, ITS YOUR CALL, JUST DONT CONFUSE WHAT I SAID........MAYBE YOU SHOULD REREAD MY ORIGINAL POST.

You started post a 'fact' about isometrics (which is a little higher than most research suggest but whatever) and then you say

THIS IS WHY I NEVER ADVOCATE FULL RANGE REPS, ALONG WITH THE INJURY FACTOR.

Yet after discussing isometrics you say

I was pointing out a fact.........I am not saying that I use isometrics in my training

Which doesnt add up much to your conclusion in your original statement. And somehow, only your trainees are supposed to understand what you mean. Whatever

Does a hack-squat cosidered an isometric movement?

Any movement can have an isometric, you just have to stop at a desired angle (usually but not necessarily the sticking point). But you have to ask yourself why do an isometric if you can perform the full ROM safely and with good results.

 

[yankee14]

Does a hack-squat cosidered an isometric movement?

Isometric excercise is when you tighten a muscle with no change in the length.... an example would be like phil said a wall squat where your sitting against a wall at a 90 degree angle and your muscles are tense but there's no ROM another example would be trying to push against a wall..... a hack squat would be an isotonic movement..... which is when your moving a muscle through it's ROM and there's constant pressure on it through out the movement.....