• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
ashp210
UGFREAK-banner-PM
esquel
YMSGIF210x65-Banner
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

It's official: Heavy Weights Beats Extra Hours in Gym

i always mixed lifting heavy and then going high reps/more volume for a couple of months.

watch me training last month splaining good form and why time under tension is paramount:
my legs shrank because i hadnt worked out for a month
[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]WDBP_xdzyxI[/MEDIA]"]Epic Bench Press Maneuver - YouTube[/ame]

Amazing form. Everyone knows what hand he uses when “alone”.
 
I’m pretty much incapable of going heavy any longer so it doesn’t happen. I kinda do EmEric’s old man routine he advised a couple guys on in his thread. All of my injuries have always happened outside the gym.
 
I think some people don’t really understand the fact that heavy is relative. Do a 20rep widow maker set or one those 30 rep leg presses Dante talks about and tell me that shit wasn’t heavy. It’s about as hard, heavy and intense as anything you’ll ever do in the gym. If I got to absolute failure on an exercise for 15-20 reps to the point where I can’t budge the weight and week after week beat the hell out of the log book are you going to tell me I’m not training heavy and like a pussy?
As far as volume goes, I think the less intensity you can generate the more volume you need. Some people just don’t have the fortitude (had to say it lol)to push sets to that agonizing point so they claim that low volume doesn’t work. They need 15-20 sets a body part to actually stimulate the muscle. These are the same people who talk shit about Big A’s growth principles for beginners, DC, and Yates Blood and Guts. Even if you look at John Meadows routines they appear higher volume but a lot of it is working up to about about 3-5 sets of failure a workout. You’re not beating the log book but you’re getting in those hard heavy failure sets where the growth happens.
 
Research does show that heavier weight puts more stress on the greatest amount of motor units. When lifting lighter weights there are some motor units that don't get called on at all, or minimally. In a light weight set those units can come in toward the end of the set when failure starts to set in, but earlier in the set they aren't very active.

Heavier weights can also cause muscle fibers to adapt and become more biased toward fast twitch characteristics. Its amazing that the "fiber type" can actually change. I saw it in research at college, with my own eyes in the microscope helping do research. There is a difference though between training for size vs strength.
 
When I wasn't able to use heavy weights and only able to do push ups and pull ups. As long as I kept same
intensity and pump to failure. Never lost size, just strength.
 
weight is relative to be honest if one inclines 365 x 10 that could be considered heavy but 225 x 30-35 would also be considered very heavy too .
 
weight is relative to be honest if one inclines 365 x 10 that could be considered heavy but 225 x 30-35 would also be considered very heavy too .
Yeah, to be "heavy" the weight needs to feel heavy to YOU. If you want to really force growth, you've got to overload the muscle. Obviously, doing endless sets of 30 rep bicep curls isn't going to cause your arms to grow much.

What's heavy to one guy is light to another.
 
i'm MUCH more of a heavy loading, high intensity guy than I am a increase volume, lower intensity.
Either way, there are studies that argue BOTH points.

Trying to find THE SINGLE answer will probably lead you around in circles and not lead to any progress.
ALSO, your body probably needs different stimulus at different times.
I know for a fact MOST GUYS do not have enough weight to squat 600lbs for reps at home, therefore....lowering the intensity and adding volume for gains. LOTS of things work, don't overthink it.
 
i'm MUCH more of a heavy loading, high intensity guy than I am a increase volume, lower intensity.
Either way, there are studies that argue BOTH points.

Trying to find THE SINGLE answer will probably lead you around in circles and not lead to any progress.
ALSO, your body probably needs different stimulus at different times.
I know for a fact MOST GUYS do not have enough weight to squat 600lbs for reps at home, therefore....lowering the intensity and adding volume for gains. LOTS of things work, don't overthink it.

Exactly. I am the same but 100% for optimal results (progression, injury prevention, etc) there needs to be some rotation. You even get many guys solely concerned on lifting heavier who aren't even controlling the weight and they would grow/connect much better lowering the weight and improving their form/control. Now if I want to progress I will try to get as strong as possible in particular rep ranges so of course heavy weights are key. However, I rotate onto more volume at times because it would be stupid of me constantly trying to beat my 5-8 rep max on all exercises all year long. I should also mention I love "volume" training as well so that is only a good thing. Moreover, higher reps doesn't have to mean light weight.

Some people don't seem to get that and think if you are doing 15+ reps it must be "light". As long as you are going to failure it's going to work and I would recommend people play about with rep ranges through the year. People are always after the 1 answer for the secret of muscle growth when the truth is there are many possible answers. When you don't have the genetics and you experiment I have personally found that certain body parts actually respond better to higher reps (and more volume) as well. My calves respond much differently to my chest for example.
 
I'm 62. I've had a hip replacement (need another), and a shoulder resurfacing (metal ball on the end of my humerus). I'm sure power lifting and "going heavy" contributed. Putting up big weight looks impressive, but so is being able to walk and lift your arm over your head. I'm still going at it, but use a lot more reps and some blood flow restriction training...bands (shit works). I'm sure the offending arthritis is genetic, but going heavy didn't help.
 
I'm 62. I've had a hip replacement (need another), and a shoulder resurfacing (metal ball on the end of my humerus). I'm sure power lifting and "going heavy" contributed. Putting up big weight looks impressive, but so is being able to walk and lift your arm over your head. I'm still going at it, but use a lot more reps and some blood flow restriction training...bands (shit works). I'm sure the offending arthritis is genetic, but going heavy didn't help.
For sure. You pay the price later in life for what you did when you were young. Its that way with a lot of things. At 50 my low back is killing me every day. When I was younger I'd do sets with 495 on squats and be fine the next day. I have a feeling I did some damage. Heavy dead lifts and bentover rows too.

Just look at Ronnie Coleman today.
 
In the late 80's- early 90's I saw a lot of top guys train. I was young and all I cared about was how much weight they were moving. I remember one time training next to Shaw Ray and he was doing curls with 35lb dumbbells. I was so proud of myself that I was standing next to him using 40's. I paid no attention to the fact he had 18" arms and mine were like 15" at best. I would see top guys like Dennis Newman and Troy Zuccolotto squat and never go north of 315lbs. Instead they would pump out reps of 15+ per set like a piston, generally staying in the middle portion of the movement, never locking out.

I was disappointed that the BIG guys were using such light weights that I joined a powerlifting gym. This was a night/day difference. Now, I saw really FAT guys squatting a LOT of weight for 1-5 reps. The weird thing was, most had skinny legs. Then I saw skinny guys deadlifting a ton of weight. Although there were some muscular guys there, to the casual observer many looked like they were recreational lifters at best. Nothing like the physiques of Ray, Zucco, Newman etc. I grew to think those guys were mirror athletes and I got deeper into powerlifting. I got pretty darn strong for a natty guy (3x bodyweight squat, 3x bodyweight DL) but I only weighed 155-165 at any given time. Unless you saw me in the gym, most people didn't even know I lifted weights.

And this was my mindset for 20 years or so until I reached the age of 43 and broke all my PB's in powerlifting. I walked off the platform with herniated discs, a bum shoulder and an unimpressive physique to look at. In a flash, I had a paradigm shift and thought what next? What is my end game? How much more weight do I need to move and at what cost? So I started training like a bodybuilder. I use WAY LESS WEIGHT. I use FAR MORE REPS. I focus on mind muscle connection. And despite being a seasoned lifter and 43 years old, I was able to pack on over 15lbs of muscle in a couple years. I am much "bigger" now, actually a bit leaner and I am 51.

I don't care what the studies show, for HYPERTROPHY there is something to be said about using moderately heavy weights, in a moderate rep range while focusing on mind/muscle connection that trumps moving the most weight you can from point A to point B.
 
And don't get me wrong, I am still drawn to watching guys move heavy weights. I love watching guys like Jordan Peters or Dusty Hanshaw train. Jordan is pounding out ridiculous amounts of iron for sets of 3-4 reps in some vids. It seems Dusty is always loading his spine with 600-700 lbs on a near daily basis. It is impressive. But I wonder, at what cost? Will either become Mr. O? Will they be able to walk in 10 years? Meanwhile I see the top guys from the era when I got into it...guys like Shawn, Charles Glass, Haney, etc. and they didn't use spine busting poundages, but all seem to still have a very high quality of life.
 
In the late 80's- early 90's I saw a lot of top guys train. I was young and all I cared about was how much weight they were moving. I remember one time training next to Shaw Ray and he was doing curls with 35lb dumbbells. I was so proud of myself that I was standing next to him using 40's. I paid no attention to the fact he had 18" arms and mine were like 15" at best. I would see top guys like Dennis Newman and Troy Zuccolotto squat and never go north of 315lbs. Instead they would pump out reps of 15+ per set like a piston, generally staying in the middle portion of the movement, never locking out.

I was disappointed that the BIG guys were using such light weights that I joined a powerlifting gym. This was a night/day difference. Now, I saw really FAT guys squatting a LOT of weight for 1-5 reps. The weird thing was, most had skinny legs. Then I saw skinny guys deadlifting a ton of weight. Although there were some muscular guys there, to the casual observer many looked like they were recreational lifters at best. Nothing like the physiques of Ray, Zucco, Newman etc. I grew to think those guys were mirror athletes and I got deeper into powerlifting. I got pretty darn strong for a natty guy (3x bodyweight squat, 3x bodyweight DL) but I only weighed 155-165 at any given time. Unless you saw me in the gym, most people didn't even know I lifted weights.

And this was my mindset for 20 years or so until I reached the age of 43 and broke all my PB's in powerlifting. I walked off the platform with herniated discs, a bum shoulder and an unimpressive physique to look at. In a flash, I had a paradigm shift and thought what next? What is my end game? How much more weight do I need to move and at what cost? So I started training like a bodybuilder. I use WAY LESS WEIGHT. I use FAR MORE REPS. I focus on mind muscle connection. And despite being a seasoned lifter and 43 years old, I was able to pack on over 15lbs of muscle in a couple years. I am much "bigger" now, actually a bit leaner and I am 51.

I don't care what the studies show, for HYPERTROPHY there is something to be said about using moderately heavy weights, in a moderate rep range while focusing on mind/muscle connection that trumps moving the most weight you can from point A to point B.
There is a lot to be said about TUT for muscle growth,time under tension.
 
There is a lot to be said about TUT for muscle growth,time under tension.

Right. My "walking around" weight was between 165-175 for a few decades. I lifted "slag iron" for lower reps. I used only the big compound movements, trained about 3-4x per week. One day was Squat day. 75% of my workout was squats and 25% was accessory lifts. Same was true for Deadlift day (accessories were back extensions, shrugs, rows etc) and there was Bench day (accessories were dips, close grip bench etc.). I always trained at 70-90% of my 1rm and my rep range was generally 1-5 reps. Occasionally I would do a few sets of tricep pushdowns or leg curls at 8 reps. I was strong. I was small.

Now, I am 51. My walking around weight is 190lbs. But I am leaner. And I cannot even remember the last time I used LESS than 8 reps on any exercise. Sometimes I hit up to 30 on things like rear delts or leg extensions. I am much bigger, leaner, and "weaker." But, like others have said, the term "weak" is relative. I am much stronger in the higher rep ranges of 12-20 reps for example, but weaker in the rep ranges of 1-5.
 
Right. My "walking around" weight was between 165-175 for a few decades. I lifted "slag iron" for lower reps. I used only the big compound movements, trained about 3-4x per week. One day was Squat day. 75% of my workout was squats and 25% was accessory lifts. Same was true for Deadlift day (accessories were back extensions, shrugs, rows etc) and there was Bench day (accessories were dips, close grip bench etc.). I always trained at 70-90% of my 1rm and my rep range was generally 1-5 reps. Occasionally I would do a few sets of tricep pushdowns or leg curls at 8 reps. I was strong. I was small.

Now, I am 51. My walking around weight is 190lbs. But I am leaner. And I cannot even remember the last time I used LESS than 8 reps on any exercise. Sometimes I hit up to 30 on things like rear delts or leg extensions. I am much bigger, leaner, and "weaker." But, like others have said, the term "weak" is relative. I am much stronger in the higher rep ranges of 12-20 reps for example, but weaker in the rep ranges of 1-5.
Yes, I think the body adapts to whatever stimulus is applied and becomes good at that. So if you train really heavy and low reps then that's where you have the most strength. Higher reps require more endurance and isn't quite as anaerobic. The training you do will affect how the muscle fibers adapt and what % become more fast twitch glycolytic and which become more slow twitch oxidative. There is a spectrum between the two extremes that the fibers adapt to. Makes sense that you are stronger now at higher reps.
 
Here is a good study done at Ohio University, this was done after I was there for my masters, but I worked in the lab typing muscle fibers for a different study many years before this. The guys there did some really impressive study on weight training and muscle adaptations. They take muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis muscle during the study. Lots of studies done on people, some on rats. This one is on women. The one I was doing was on senior citizen men.

 
that's obvious but to the extreme would a guy benching 405 x 5 be bigger then a guy benching 315 x 20
that's obvious but to the extreme would a guy benching 405 x 5 be bigger then a guy benching 315 x 20
Theyd be around the same size if they had the same genetics but 20 rep guy would also likely be able to do 5 reps with 405

Would it be harder or easier to get to that strength level doing 5 sets of 20s or 5s?
 

Staff online

  • Big A
    IFBB PRO/NPC JUDGE/Administrator

Forum statistics

Total page views
558,099,010
Threads
135,765
Messages
2,768,810
Members
160,344
Latest member
Punisher13420
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
your-raws
Prowrist straps store banner
infinity
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yourmuscleshop210x131
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
Knight Labs store email banner
3
ashp131
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top