Low Dose Cut Cycle

[Steve123]

I was thinking of a low dose 10 week Cut cycle. My goal is to avoid the more harsh anabolics for medical reasons. My goal is to maintain mass and just harden up as I loose fat. Here is what I'm thinking:

250 EW Test C
200 EW EQ (fast acting EQ)
50 ED Proviron
100mcg ED T3

I'm trying to stay in the 500mg EW range total but I want more of a Non-Estrogen mediated tilt, if you will; hence the EQ. I"m thinking that the proviron will do a couple of things: Tight bind to the AR's in the fat cells, reduce SHBG (get some synergy), increase androgen levels a bit and act almost like an AI. The T3 of course is to sent the thyroid into overdrive.


My real question here is this: would 200EW Eq be a complete waste.I'm trying to look at this thing in terms of total MG's of Anabolics and, not counting proviron, I would like to staty 500 or less. I get all screwed up if I go higher.

Thanks for any feedback

 

[Quad-smack]

At that level of T3 you would need to increase the test (a lot) to keep from going catabolic.
I've always heard 12.5 - 25mcg increases protein synthesis and past that it increases protein oxidation. You can counteract that by increasing your androgens.

 

[Steve123]

At that level of T3 you would need to increase the test (a lot) to keep from going catabolic.
I've always heard 12.5 - 25mcg increases protein synthesis and past that it increases protein oxidation. You can counteract that by increasing your androgens.

Hey QUad - Thanks! Question though. Is it really that T3 specifically increases protein oxidation or is it more that it simply rev's the Thyroid which just burns more calories (period), regardless of macro? I always thought the later; therefore, when looking at anabolics, the idea is to get yourself over high normal levels. How would increasing Test from say, 50% over high normal to 150% ocer high normal somehow curtail this situation?

Not challenging you here. Just trying to better understand the dynamic. I'm also thinking of upping the carbs a bit and taking a bCAA supplement. The carbs would be the first to burn in this environment.

 

[Quad-smack]

In excess of replacement dose of thyroid hormones (50mcg T4 + 12.5mcg T3) your endogenous thyroid production is suppressed. T3 itself is a biologically active compound and is oxidative.
Here is a nice snippet from datBtrue:

Thyroid hormones (catabolic NOT anabolic)

In contrast, both rates of whole-body protein breakdown and synthesis are increased by the administration of T3 and T4 to normal subjects 86. Under these circumstances net protein catabolism occurs because the stimulation of protein synthesis is overcome by a greater stimulation of amino acid oxidation 86.

[Thyroid hormones are catabolic because they stimulate breakdown to a greater extent then synthesis.]

The data on the role played by normal thyroid hormone concentration in the physiological regulation of everyday protein metabolism in normal humans are very limited. In growing rats it has been suggested that thyroid hormones contribute to the increase in protein synthesis induced by meal absorption 87. This does not appear to be the case in humans, according to the evidence that meal-induced changes in protein kinetics occur in the absence of significant changes in the plasma concentrations of T3 and T4 88.

[Thyroid hormones do not appear to contribute to protein synthesis following meals in humans. In rats yes...but not humans. In other words these hormones in normal humans do not add to the protein synthesis that meals induce.]

Basal concentrations of thyroid hormones have differential effects on individual protein kinetics and they play a role in the physiological regulation of protein metabolism of selectively modulating the synthetic or the catabolic rates of target proteins.

[Base levels of thyroid hormones play a general role in modulating both catabolism and synthesis of proteins. Other then restoring abnormalities there doesn't appear to be predictable benefit to manipulating thyroid hormone levels if anabolism is the goal.]

References:

86 – Tauveron I, Charrier S, Champredon C, Bonnet Y, Berry C, Bayle G, et al., Response of leucine metabolism to hyperinsulinemia under amino acid replacement in experimental hyperthyroidism, Am J Physiol 1995;269:E499-507
87 – Jepson MM, Bates PC, Millward DJ., The role of insulin and thyroid hormones in the regulation of muscle growth and protein turnover in response to dietary protein, Br J Nutr 1988;59:397-415
88 – Pacy PJ, Price GM, Halliday D, Quevedo MR, Millward DJ., Nitrogen homeostasis in man: the diurnal responses of protein synthesis and degradation and amino acid oxidation to diets with increasing protein intakes, Clin Sci 1994:86:103-18

 

[Steve123]

Thanks. You know, maybe it would be better to stay away from T3 anyway. I may just keep this real simple for 10 weeks. In fact, I will probably drop the proviron too.

Maybe do something like:

250 Test C / 200 EQ (new fast acting type)
30mg Winstrol - 4 weeks on/2 off/4 on

Do this and just kill it with the cardio and work in a 4 day, super intense workout. I'll probably drop off the calories a bit more than usual too.

So, I accomplish my goal for the cycle. 1)mild cycle, 2)not overly estrogenic, 3) short and sweet and 4) a cycle that definitely supports the kind of super intense Cardio that I like to do.

What do you think?

Thanks Quad!

 

[nickman1978]

I think that the eq has to be dosed at atleast 600mg a weak to see the true effects...
What kind of eq is it? Is it the eq II ???

 

[calfmaster]

drop the eq, not worth it, up the test a little instead. I'd also say maybe do 12 weeks vs 10 since it would be a better amount of spacing time with the orals and you can still run the orals while the test is wearing out/waiting for pct.

for example

test-c 300mg 1-10
winstrol 30mg 1-4
halo, superdrol, var or winstrol 9-12

pct starts on week 13

 

[snowreaper1]

I would run EQ 1-12 400mg EW Test 1-13or 14 250mg ew. The EQ will still be
low on side effects and you wont completely shut down with taking that dose
of test. With the right diet I think you can def achieve your goals with cutting
while building some strong muscle