Low Testosterone, Got a few questions

[maldorf]

Heres the problem, Im trying to get my test levels back to normal so that im producing normally. The Gel or a injectable test would stop my natural production of test, therefore doing the complete opposite of what I want. I dont want to inject myself with test cyp for the rest of my life, I'd just become a pro body builder and go all out if that was my only option =/

If its been 1 year and your still not back to normal then I am going to go out on a limb and say game over. I know that was the case for me. The risks we didnt understand when we first used AAS!

 

[danc1007]

Heres the problem, Im trying to get my test levels back to normal so that im producing normally. The Gel or a injectable test would stop my natural production of test, therefore doing the complete opposite of what I want. I dont want to inject myself with test cyp for the rest of my life, I'd just become a pro body builder and go all out if that was my only option =/

Ur looking at things in the wrong light.Listen to guys like maldorf who have the knowledge and wisdom to get u thinking clearly.If its been over a year and no rebound ur likely not gonna recover.Now u have to look at it like if u were just diagnosed with an illness like diabetes.As far as injections goes u can use an insulin pin bro there painless and i have even read about people doing it sub-q.Regardless i know it sucks but unfortunatly i have to be on replacement theorpy as well.Tren totally fucked my HPTA after only 6 weeks i struggled to recover.Your options r Clomid/hcg/aromasin for 6-8 weeks to see if u can jump start again or Test replacement which isn't as bad as it sounds and people make it out to be.Like Maldorf said bro i think its game over for u too if its been a year and no luck.But i am no doctor an a endo that specializes in hypogonadism should be ur first move in the wright direction.

 

[Achilles-reborn]

:yeahthat:

Also one thing to consider is that everyone is different. People like to throw out the normal answers, Nolva, Clomid, Letro but it does not always work. Some people just don't bounce back no matter what kind of PCT you might follow. Others do but I myself do not. It's a gamble I took and lost. Once you realize this yu will do whatever it takes to feel better even if it means permanent TRT. Sorry Bro.

Good Luck!

 

[eyesin]

Ur looking at things in the wrong light.Listen to guys like maldorf who have the knowledge and wisdom to get u thinking clearly.If its been over a year and no rebound ur likely not gonna recover.Now u have to look at it like if u were just diagnosed with an illness like diabetes.As far as injections goes u can use an insulin pin bro there painless and i have even read about people doing it sub-q.Regardless i know it sucks but unfortunatly i have to be on replacement theorpy as well.Tren totally fucked my HPTA after only 6 weeks i struggled to recover.Your options r Clomid/hcg/aromasin for 6-8 weeks to see if u can jump start again or Test replacement which isn't as bad as it sounds and people make it out to be.Like Maldorf said bro i think its game over for u too if its been a year and no luck.But i am no doctor an a endo that specializes in hypogonadism should be ur first move in the wright direction.

Please dont take my lack of knowledge and ignorance as me not taking their advice. Im just trying to figure it all out. injections of test the rest of my life is probably the worst news ive ever gotten so please bare with me. I cant even stand giving myself hgh injections every day twice a day, now I have to add ANOTHER injection on top of that and for the rest of my life..........

 

[eyesin]

Ur looking at things in the wrong light.Listen to guys like maldorf who have the knowledge and wisdom to get u thinking clearly.If its been over a year and no rebound ur likely not gonna recover.Now u have to look at it like if u were just diagnosed with an illness like diabetes.As far as injections goes u can use an insulin pin bro there painless and i have even read about people doing it sub-q.Regardless i know it sucks but unfortunatly i have to be on replacement theorpy as well.Tren totally fucked my HPTA after only 6 weeks i struggled to recover.Your options r Clomid/hcg/aromasin for 6-8 weeks to see if u can jump start again or Test replacement which isn't as bad as it sounds and people make it out to be.Like Maldorf said bro i think its game over for u too if its been a year and no luck.But i am no doctor an a endo that specializes in hypogonadism should be ur first move in the wright direction.

I would jump right on a clomid / hcg / aromasin cycle but the problem comes in with underdosed gear. I will have no way to tell if the stuff I get is actually dosed properly, otherwise Ill waste money and 6-8 weeks on nothing. If theres one thing I hate more than anything its wasted time. Would a doctor prescribe all these things or am I on my own to find them UG?

 

[danc1007]

Please dont take my lack of knowledge and ignorance as me not taking their advice. Im just trying to figure it all out. injections of test the rest of my life is probably the worst news ive ever gotten so please bare with me. I cant even stand giving myself hgh injections every day twice a day, now I have to add ANOTHER injection on top of that and for the rest of my life..........

I wasn't trying to make u feel like that i'm just trying to help u look at it a little differently.I understand ur frustration and anger and the fear of the unknown but its more common than u would think even with guys who don't use aas.Try not to look at it as the rest of ur life and take it a day at a time.There r more health risks with having low test levels than there r with replacement theropy.And if u hate injections there r other options for u but take my advice bro make an appointment with an endo for peace of mind.They would know the best way to treat u cause everyone on this board has there own experience and suggestions but what worked for them might not work for u.

 

[maldorf]

Please dont take my lack of knowledge and ignorance as me not taking their advice. Im just trying to figure it all out. injections of test the rest of my life is probably the worst news ive ever gotten so please bare with me. I cant even stand giving myself hgh injections every day twice a day, now I have to add ANOTHER injection on top of that and for the rest of my life..........

Why are you taking HGH injections?

 

[BA69]

I used fairly frequently for 3 years, I mean I had access to everything imaginable, whithin arms length. PCT never worked on me. I've used pharmacy clomid, arimidex, HCG. I would bounce back temporarily, but would crash again. By then, I would be on another cycle, usually 1.2-1.5g per week. I started using GH, and I started beleiving that my PCT was working, I didn't really understand that once I stopped the GH, all hell was going to break loose...and beleive me, it did. I went from 245lbs at 12%, to a disgusting 310lbs+, I had zero motivation to train or eat right. I went on a doctor prescribed HRT, and gradually got myself to a nice middle ground. I'm 250lbs now, BF is higher than I would like it to be, but things are balanced. I'm on 150mg Test per week, and I'll be on it for life. It's that simple. I just recently started 45mg of Anavar per day, and things are looking up, small doses to assist my weight loss and give me a little boost. Will be looking to come down to 220lbs, gradually. No more ups and downs, my body simply cannot take it.

Like Maldorf said, most of us started juicing with the idea that we would bounce back, but it just didn't work that way for a lot of us.

 

[mojolnir]

I used fairly frequently for 3 years, I mean I had access to everything imaginable, whithin arms length. PCT never worked on me. I've used pharmacy clomid, arimidex, HCG. I would bounce back temporarily, but would crash again. By then, I would be on another cycle, usually 1.2-1.5g per week. I started using GH, and I started beleiving that my PCT was working, I didn't really understand that once I stopped the GH, all hell was going to break loose...and beleive me, it did. I went from 245lbs at 12%, to a disgusting 310lbs+, I had zero motivation to train or eat right. I went on a doctor prescribed HRT, and gradually got myself to a nice middle ground. I'm 250lbs now, BF is higher than I would like it to be, but things are balanced. I'm on 150mg Test per week, and I'll be on it for life. It's that simple. I just recently started 45mg of Anavar per day, and things are looking up, small doses to assist my weight loss and give me a little boost. Will be looking to come down to 220lbs, gradually. No more ups and downs, my body simply cannot take it.

Like Maldorf said, most of us started juicing with the idea that we would bounce back, but it just didn't work that way for a lot of us.

Did u really have a huge rebound from stopping gh or was ur weight gain due to other things?

 

[MAZINGUER-X]

your problems are also related to the level of libido or level test only?

 

[bighank]

Listen bro,I'm only 32,and I gave it 2 years and 3 months for my sytem to come back.I got it from a 211 total test to only a 384 in over 2 years.I dident want to go on trt either bro ,but now I'm on 100 mg of cyp,and feel normal again ,finally sometimes you have to do what you have to,and not what you want to,Thats life man.not trying to be a dick,but your looking for some other way there isent,that's the rules of the game we all play.either you give it a year or 2,or go on trt,that's it man,good luck

 

[BTG]

IN ADDITION to proper PCT, try to supplement with DAA (D-Aspartic-Acid) its one of the best natural test boosters around... Of course try to get good clomid, aromasin,HCG etc... Good luck bro...

 

[BA69]

Did u really have a huge rebound from stopping gh or was ur weight gain due to other things?

I should be more clear. Remember, hindsight is 20/20, so what I understand now, wasn't exactly clear to me at the time. The only time I didn't crash from a cycle was when added GH. I added 2iu ED during my PCT, and continued while a few months off juice, until I ran another cycle. I had never come off the GH. My dose was up to 3iu, and then I raised it to 4iu. I used Prescription Nutropin and humatrope for the most part and at the time I could afford it. It's about $500 for 30iu. Not cheap. I used jintropins at 5iu etc... it just wasn't the same. I stayed on GH for well over a year, I think it was maybe a year and a half.

So anyway, I didn't understand how powerful the effects of good GH can be. It's not always obvious, until you come off that is. My last big stack was Test/Tren Enanthate/Anavar/GH. The tren really messed me up. I was huge, well in the 250's with fairly low bodyfat (5'8). I had developped severe carpal tunnel from the GH, and sides were pilling up. My AAS dose wasn't all that high, 750mg Test, 300mg Tren, but I simply had enough. I looked like a freak, but I remember going to the gym, trying to warm up and I could not grip a 40lb dumbell for the life of me. It hurt. I went all the way down to 15lb dumbell, and I had trouble holding it. Tren had also messed me up mentally. I started making really dumb and dangerous emotional decision and in my line of work at the time, it was not acceptable.

I dropped everything, did an aggressive PCT, HCG, clomid, aromasin, everything imaginable. I came off and felt okay. I had seemed to bounce back. I had gained a couple of lbs of fat and was sitting around in the high 250's.

During my years pretty much on all the time, I had gotten lazy with eating and my diet consisted of 4000cals+, pretty much all the time. easily 300g of protein. When I was more serious(mass phase) I would eat 450g of protein daily. Eating large was NEVER a problem for me. I would eat a little junk here and there. What I had forgotten was what my metabolism was truly like, without all that exogeneous GH.

I continued to train, I had reduced my food intake, but years of cycling had developped my appetite and looking back, I ate way too much food while off, thinking it was necessary to hold on to my LBM.

Whithin a few months, I started looking worse. It was still somewhat manageable, since my training was intense. I had very little energy.

I had stopped training, a personnal crisis had stopped me from going, and I blew up. I was up to 275lbs really flabby. Whithin a few months time, I had blown up to 300lbs+. I did blood tests, and I was put on 200mg of Test weekly. Depression set in, and I would miss shots, I simply didn't care. After a year and a half of hard work, I now sit at 250lbs. I had to re learn how to eat, train without serious enhancement. I was making gains on 2800calories a day. I'm sure some of it was muscle memory, but keep in mind that I used to cut on 3,500-4,000 cals and lean bulk on 4,500-5,000 cals per day. I had to re learn what to eat, how it affects my body, and I've done so without any drastic steps. Slow and steady, I'm learning how to be balanced.

After 4 years off, I re introduced 45mg Anavar ED with my 150mg prescription. It's been 2 weeks now, and wow, I could feel my delts increasing in size on the very first days. I'm using AAS as an aid now, not relying on them completely. I've actually also decreased my caloric intake since I'm not worried about losing LBM. I'll run this for a few weeks, come off for a few months, and maybe do a short 5 week NPP run at 450mg a week, a far cry from my previous 1050mg NPP run. I'll be running my 150mg of Test the whole time as well.

 

[eyesin]

Why are you taking HGH injections?

for weight loss, otherwise id be a fat ass not being able to eat right.

 

[Bigboycpt21]

Iam in the same boat as you. Took me eight months to raise my test from 35 to 185.. YES 35, not a typo. AND that was with prescription clomid/hcg after my cycle, guess it didnt do shit. I was on HRT for almost a year, stayed onn too long for my body.

I can try to give it more time, but how much is it really gonna raise ?

A time is going to come where I (we) have to make a decision to be on HRT forever..yeah I know it sucks, Iam only 29 too. I hope not though, hope somehow we can raise it to normal ranges without weekly shots.

Keep in touch & lets see how it goes...

 

[IPGear]

Its not easy for anyone to sort this out and sometimes a doc has to do alot of testing and trial and error. One of the drawbacks with oils is that they will saturate all tissues and keep your levels up around the clock. Natural test will climb at night and fall throughout the day. We have had pretty consistent testerone levels that cycled daily up to the 800-1000 range before falling off going into the evening using testosterone trouches and the buccal striant 12 hour tab. 4 years on these allowed us to maintain mass and remain one of the biggest guys for our age. The last year or 18 months of that period added our own little cycles for enhancement and broke our own strength records. Four years since then of mostly andropen at 750 -1000mg per week without TRT, stopped lifting for 6 months and everything crashed and we felt about our age and looked more closer to our age than we would have ever wished.

Everybody is different, but as people have eluded to, you really want a doc who is going to test levels of free and bound test, estrodial, DHt frequently enough to get a handle on your problem. PCT therapy was never prescribed as we assume you must have to have the ability to respond. Armidex was added to bring down estrogen level as was procepia.

Now after draining another abcess, and we know the product well enough to know it was not the problem of the 25ml vial really, but what potentialy happens when you go in and out of that 8 - 10 times reusing one needle to draw out and a sterile needle to pin, we are actually asking IP to ship his recommendation for a sublinqual tab that would be good for TRT that is fast asking has a short duration of action.

If there was a hormone doc in our area we would use him but thats a long way off from us these days.

What you want is a doctor who at least understands why you like test on the high side who is willing to let you run above average for your age but who is not irresponsible enough to support you doing your own thing even though he probably understands why you do.

There are no easy fixes or formulas and product is probably not the problem but whats truly going on in side you is. We are always reminded that viagra is probably the product that most frequently is said to be bunk. Most of the time it has little to do with the product and everything to do where they are at physiologically.


IPGEAR

 

[eyesin]

Do I tell the Endo everything? Wont my insurance tell me to go fuck myself once they find out about this stuff?

 

[eyesin]

What you want is a doctor who at least understands why you like test on the high side who is willing to let you run above average for your age but who is not irresponsible enough to support you doing your own thing even though he probably understands why you do.

Unfortunately thats not how they advertise so it would be impossible to find a doc that has those specifics without being referred by someone.

 

[Cerberus777]

My low T isnt the result of use ( at least i dont think so)But lymn's disease, spent 2 years with clomid an hgc...struggled to reach 409... Then it just stopped working, now that im on TRT... My only regret is not being on for thouse 2 years. It may take a few docs but you will find one that treats you.

 

[maldorf]

Do I tell the Endo everything? Wont my insurance tell me to go fuck myself once they find out about this stuff?

I told mine and I had no problems at all. It shouldnt matter. I had no difficulties getting covered for any of my problems that were steroid related. My two hospital stays in ICU from my heart attack ran over $250,000 and they paid on all of that minus my deductable and they knew I had been on steroids. Ive been on HRT for over 3 yrs now and I specifically told my endo why my test was so low from using the steroids.