Maintaining HPTA function during cycle

[WARLORD_123]

I have read alot of guys here on the board seem to utilize really long cycles. Also Big A in the "growth principles" sticky outlined a method for staying on for a long time as well. My question is how do you maintain your natural test levels while on for that long. I understand using HCG or clomid is the most common methods, but at what dosages and at what time during a cycle do you do it. What about taking high dosages of tribulus during your cycle?

 

[BigBoyJ]

Tribulus during a cycle is worthless. The means by which tribulus stimulates test production won't work at all while on juice. Basically, when you're on long cycles, it isn't about maintaining natural test while on, but instead, regaining natural test production as quickly as possible after coming off.

Some people believe more in Clomid, some like Nolva, some choose an anti-aromatase. Whichever you choose, as far as from the perspective of shortening recovery time post cycle, the reasoning is that by inhibiting the action/aromatization of/into estrogen, you will be able to recover more quickly, basically because you weren't shut down so hard. In other words, if you can keep estrogen action, or aromitization to a minimum the hpta won't be AS supressed as it would be if no anti-aromatase, or anti-estrogen were used.

Personally, I use 20 mg/day nolva while on and 10 mg/day while off. In MY opinion, nolvadex is superior to anti-aromatase drugs because even if the exogenous hormones you're taking aren't aromatized, the anti-aromatases won't do a thing for administered exogenous estrogen. Estrogen is in more foods and beverages than you can imagine. Taking an anti-aromatase won't do any good against the estro you consume. Nolvadex, however, will block the estro receptors so the results are superior.

Of course some people will just have a higher amount of the aromatase enzyme than others. So for these people, the use of an anti-aromatase is great while on cycle, along with some nolva.

I talk too much.

 

[Big A]

I use HCG every 4th week during a cycle, by using it that week on Mon, Wed and Fri. Either 1,500IU each of those days (Pregnyl) or 2,000IU each of those days (Profasi). Depends on which one I get.

 

[Dad]

Which foods?

Besides whole wheat, and soy anything which other foods and beverages contain estrogen?

Is this a bioavailable form of estrogen?

 

[PUMPED]

500ius HCG ED every sat and sun while on work nice for me

 

[healthfreak79]

question

If you were on a long cycle say like 14 to 16 weeks, would it be worth it to try nolv at 40 per day for 2 weeks say in the middle of the cycle to try to help recover some. Would this help some?????

 

[BigBoyJ]

Here's some of the foods that are high in estrogen. In fact, these foods are recommended for menopausal women to replace their estrogen without using hormones.

Alfalfa
Animal flesh (yes, any kind)
Anise seed
Apples
Baker's yeast
Barley
Beets
Carrots
Cherries
Chickpeas
Clover
Cowpeas (black- eyed peas)
Cucumbers
Dairy Foods
Dates
Eggs
Eggplant
Fennel
Flaxseeds (and oil)
Garlic
Hops
Licorice
Oats
Olive oil
Olives
Papaya
Parsley
Peas
Peppers
Plums
Pomegranates
Potatoes
Pumpkin
Red beans
Red clover
Rhubarb
Rice
Sage
Sesame seeds
Soybean sprouts
Soybeans
Split peas
Sunflower seeds
Tomatoes
Wheat Products
Yams

 

[BigBoyJ]

If you were on a long cycle say like 14 to 16 weeks, would it be worth it to try nolv at 40 per day for 2 weeks say in the middle of the cycle to try to help recover some. Would this help some?????

Two weeks in a cycle like that wouldn't really give any added benefit.

 

[Dad]

Interestingly...

While the extensive list above does include food containing phytoestrogens, it's interesting to note that at the very low levels present in these foods (estrogenic activites of 1/500 to 1/1000 that of estradoil), they actually act, in many cases, like an anti-estrogen by binding to estrogen receptors.

Unfortunately, the evidence so far as to the possibility of phytoestrogens ameliorating human disease has been unable to consistantely show significant benefit. It does remain an area of ongoing research.

 

[BigBoyJ]

Yeah, most of the non-animal foods listed above are sources of mainly phytoestrogens, but most of the animal products actually contain estradiol. And since bodybuilders rely so heavily on animal products for muscle growth, we take in A LOT more estrogen than we should. Hell, I think all men should get on Nolvadex at age 40 just to prevent the dreaded "old man tits syndrome."

 

[Mr Pickels]

hmmm.... good read, just when i thought i was eating myself towards a set of D cups i get some relieving info....

BBJ.... the talking to much comment.. "no comment" jk big guy .... you get to 260 yet??, i remember you saying you were shooting for that in the near to present future... how's that going??

 

[Rogue]

Nolvadex will do a good job post cycle. A good anti-aromatase will help during the cyle.
Its good to not that your hypothalamus will signal testicular shutdow due to elevated estrogens not testosterone.

 

[BigBoyJ]

hmmm.... good read, just when i thought i was eating myself towards a set of D cups i get some relieving info....

BBJ.... the talking to much comment.. "no comment" jk big guy .... you get to 260 yet??, i remember you saying you were shooting for that in the near to present future... how's that going??

Yeah, I got to 270, but I couldn't breathe. I just got there too fast. I got off cycle and cut WAAAAY back on the eating for a few weeks. Right now I'm 250. My guess is that I probably lost about 12 pounds of water. My face was bloated up like a water balloon. Anyway I feel better now. Next time I get up there, I'm going to do it more slowly and in better condition.

As for posting pics, I planned on it, but our desktop computer got screwed by a virus. Now all we have is a laptop and I don't have any way to get pics up without buying a lot of equipment. Either that, or get the desktop fixed.

So for now everyone can keep saying that I'm all talk and I don't know shit.