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MENT, gyno, dialing in E2

Type-IIx

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MENT AND ITS AROMATIC PRODUCT THAT IS STRONGER THAN E2 (BY A LOT)
by Type-IIx

An influential poster, possible the admin/wiki author on a related subreddit seems to be deliberately misrepresenting MENT and just generally putting out a deluge of incredibly wrong information in a highly confident manner. That’s not THAT bad, but it seems that wiki is read by a majority of the guys here.

I’m seeing guys taking estradiol pills to dial in E2, I’m seeing guys that think MENT is barely suppressive because of research where pellets were defective or broke and IV injections into monkeys.

So, let’s look a bit at MENT! It’s not a bad compound at all, provided that it is understood. The problem is that it is being claimed, with a great deal of intentional misrepresentation I believe, that it doesn’t cause gyno or estrogenic effects. And it definitely does.

MENT-aromatic-product-efficacy-gt4x-T-E2.png

MENT's aromatic product (7α-methylestradiol; 7α-ME) is 4x(!) as potent (technically "efficacious," its being a bad thing here) in ER-containing cells [1]. Efficacy is determined by measuring the effect, e.g., growth (here, in breast cancer cells). The EC₅₀ (EC50) is determined by the concentrations at which the ligand triggers growth. This may be confirmed by measurements of cell cycle progression (i.e., the S-phase entry during the cell cycle).

The binding affinity (IC₅₀) of MENT's aromatic product (7α-methylestradiol) is 102% that of estradiol[1], which is noteworthy as E2 is typically used as the reference compound for ER binding given its particularly high efficacy, potency, and affinity for the ERα receptor, in the literature.

Given the findings of Attardi et al, in comparing the rate of aromatization between MENT and nandrolone, that "At 180 min, about 23% of MENT was converted to 7α-ME and about 13% of 19-NT to E2," knowing that nandrolone [19-NT] aromatizes at 20% the rate of Test [2], we can deduce that MENT aromatizes at roughly 35% the rate of Test... to 7α-ME (an aromatic product with four-fold E2's “potency” for causing growth in breast cancer cells). Simple multiplication of the rate of aromatization (35%) * EC50(7α-methylestradiol) * RBA(7α-methylestradiol) ≈

MENT has a roughly 40% greater growth potential in ER-containing cells than T.

This would certainly seem to support the anecdotes that MENT is quite a potent gynecomastic agent.

PRACTICAL

With consideration of the real world, if the MENT dosage is ~70% the Test dosage, it's on par with the estrogenicity of T, and given the aromatization of MENT to 7α-ME rather than E2, this consequence is unlikely to be reflected in bloodwork results. By way of comparison: 35mg daily of MENT E ≈ as estrogenic as 350mg of Test E weekly.

And MENT does also has progestational activity to take into consideration.

DIALING IN E2 WITH PRECISION

Since it is the androgen-to-estrogen ratio that primarily determines the severity/experience of gyno [3][4], it makes a lot of sense to “dial in” E2 with an androgen rather than a female hormone.

Here, I provide the continuum of aromatization:

Ment (~140% aromatization of Test) > Test > Adrol > Dbol >> Deca (20% of Test)

Back in the day, it was common for guys to pop a Dbol to keep their E2 up on deca/dbol cycles. Guys used to cycle off and on, because they could, because they weren’t acutely nor chronically suppressed (once the decanoate ester cleared, after 4.5 half lives or so), believe it or not, with these compounds. That’s right, "19-nors" are not particularly suppressive as a class. Quite the opposite. But MENT kind of is, because of its aromatic product.

REFERENCES
[1] Attardi BJ, Pham TC, Radler LC, Burgenson J, Hild SA, Reel JR. Dimethandrolone (7alpha,11beta-dimethyl-19-nortestosterone) and 11beta-methyl-19-nortestosterone are not converted to aromatic A-ring products in the presence of recombinant human aromatase. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2008;110(3-5):214-222.
[2] Ryan, Kenneth J. “Biological aromatization of steroids.” Journal of Biological Chemistry 234.2 (1959): 268-272.
[3] Bond, Peter. Book on Steroids. (2020). PeterBond.org.
[4] Vanderschueren D, Vandenput L, Boonen S, Lindberg MK, Bouillon R, Ohlsson C. Androgens and bone. Endocr Rev. 2004 Jun;25(3):389-425. doi: 10.1210/er.2003-0003. PMID: 15180950.
 

luki7788

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great post ,until i have to check it i will remove 350mg of test a week and replace this dose with ment and see if estradiol stays more or less at the same level
 

jaxino

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35mg daily of MENT E ≈ as estrogenic as 350mg of Test E

350mg Test E a week should be something like 207mg Trest Ace
 

Lifting4000

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The mod at Reddit r/steroids says Ment acts like an AI and does not increase Prolactin. He also claims that Ment is as estrogenic as Nandrolone and that Ment's MethylEstrogen is as potent as regular E2. LOL.

In my opinion, Ment is a 19nor and def increases prolactin. Ment makes me lactate. Ment also is definitely not an AI.
 

DanielSon

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Ment, from years ago, has given me gyno. Test-Cyp aggravates it. Funny thing, my prolactin is normal, my progesterone is normal, but my Estradiol is 75.5.

So, if ever considering running Trest again, what do you take to control gyno, since it may be Estradiol instead of prolactin causing the gyno?
 

nothuman

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The mod at Reddit r/steroids says Ment acts like an AI and does not increase Prolactin. He also claims that Ment is as estrogenic as Nandrolone and that Ment's MethylEstrogen is as potent as regular E2. LOL.

In my opinion, Ment is a 19nor and def increases prolactin. Ment makes me lactate. Ment also is definitely not an AI.
Yes it does increase prolactin. I only use 5mg per day and I get a slightly high prolactin from it.
 

Type-IIx

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Ment, from years ago, has given me gyno. Test-Cyp aggravates it. Funny thing, my prolactin is normal, my progesterone is normal, but my Estradiol is 75.5.

So, if ever considering running Trest again, what do you take to control gyno, since it may be Estradiol instead of prolactin causing the gyno?
An AI would minimize aromatase which 7alpha-ME is a product of. If bloodwork uses the E2 sensitive LC/MS it will show a false negative for estrogenic activity.
 

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