My thoughts on Cholesterol - a series

[zaosha]

Here is my regimen when using anything that will floor my HDL:

4oz of Pomegranate Juice (make sure it contains nothing but Pom juice and filtered water) + 4oz of Blueberry Juice (same, or substitute 1 cup of fresh or frozen wild blueberries)

The above will both reduce the size of existing arterial plaques and have a prophylactic effect on the formation of new ones.

along with:

100mg CoQ10
500mg Vit C + Bioflavanoids
400iu Gamma E + Tocotrienols
400mg EGCG
120mg Gingko
2.4gm EPA/DHA

Other than that, minimize trans-fat intake, adequate fiber intake (including soluble), and eat plenty of cruciferous and green, leafy vegetables. Cover meat you cook in antioxidant spices to neutralize heterocyclic amines.

Also, and unrelated to cholesterol, take enzymes like nattokinase, serrapeptase, and bromelain on an empty stomach if hematocrit is high ( not a replacement for therapeutic phlebotomy).

-zaosha

 

[ojs]

Here is my regimen when using anything that will floor my HDL:

4oz of Pomegranate Juice (make sure it contains nothing but Pom juice and filtered water) + 4oz of Blueberry Juice (same, or substitute 1 cup of fresh or frozen wild blueberries)

The above will both reduce the size of existing arterial plaques and have a prophylactic effect on the formation of new ones.

along with:

100mg CoQ10
500mg Vit C + Bioflavanoids
400iu Gamma E + Tocotrienols
400mg EGCG
120mg Gingko
2.4gm EPA/DHA

Other than that, minimize trans-fat intake, adequate fiber intake (including soluble), and eat plenty of cruciferous and green, leafy vegetables. Cover meat you cook in antioxidant spices to neutralize heterocyclic amines.

Also, and unrelated to cholesterol, take enzymes like nattokinase, serrapeptase, and bromelain on an empty stomach if hematocrit is high ( not a replacement for therapeutic phlebotomy).

-zaosha

What are "antioxidant spices"? ...and a list of them would be good too!

 

[zaosha]

What are "antioxidant spices"? ...and a list of them would be good too!

A list would be pretty long. Most standard spice rubs and marinades will have plenty of neutralizing compounds. Onion, for instance, has been found to be a potent inhibitor of their formation and is in about any spice rub/pre-packaged marinade you will find.

I eat a pound of 96% lean ground beef/day (ocassionally substitute fully trimmed sirloin steak or bison) almost always grilled, so the HCA issue is something I decided to take seriously.

Typing in "heterocyclic amine" and "spices" in google or medline will point you to plenty of ingredients or commercial products which are good for this. I use some generic no-salt combination of spices including onion, garlic, rosemary, and a half-dozen more ingredients.

Here's one abstract which looked at a basic commercial marinade:

J Food Sci. 2008 Aug;73(6):T100-5.

Effect of marinades on the formation of heterocyclic amines in grilled beef steaks.
Smith JS, Ameri F, Gadgil P.

The Food Science Inst., Kansas State Univ., Manhattan, KS 66506, USA. [email protected]

Abstract
Heterocyclic amines (HCAs) are suspected human carcinogens formed in muscle foods during high temperature grilling or cooking. Inhibition of HCAs by commercial marinades rich in polyphenolic antioxidant containing spices was evaluated with beef round steaks cooked at 204 degrees C (400 degrees F). Treatment effects on the levels of 4 HCAs were investigated: 2-amino-3,8-dimethylimidazo[4,5-flquinoxaline (MeIQx), 2-amino-1-methyl-6-phenyl-imidazo[4,5-b]pyridine (PhIP), 1-methyl-9H-pyrido[4,3-b]indol (harman), and 9H-pyrido[4,3-blindol (norharman). The marinades were formulated according to the package label instruction in an oil, water, and vinegar mixture, and the steaks were treated for 1 h prior to grilling. All 3 marinades, Caribbean, Southwest, and herb, significantly decreased the imidazo-azaarene HCAs (MeIQx, PhIP) as contrasted to controls and liquid blanks. The Caribbean mixture showed the highest decrease in the total HCA content (88%), followed by the herb (72%) and Southwest (57%). With a few exceptions there were significant decreases in HCAs for treatments with only the marinade bases (ingredients without any spices/herbs). As measured by high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC), the marinades contained considerable amounts of the polyphenolic antioxidants carnosic acid, carnosol, and rosmarinic acid with Caribbean being the highest. Commonly available spice-containing marinades can be effective inhibitors of HCA formation and provide reduced exposure to some of the carcinogens formed during grilling.

 

[mountaindog1]

Hey guys, sorry I have not kept this thread moving....been a little busy..

So anyway, to get this back on track..

My top 4 things you need to know about cholesterol:

1. Anti-oxidant - Cholesterol is one of the most potent anti-oxidants in your body. Let me ask you something. Does it make sense to you, to send a fighter jet to the scene of an accident to blow up the ambulance being sent there to help the injured? No it does not! Remember that, every time someone tells you cholesterol is evil, because when you stop cholesterol production (via diet, or by drugs), that is what you are doing; you are blowing up the ambulance.

2. Healer - Cholesterol is used as a raw material to “fix things”, or as a healer in your body. You have probably seen the drawings where they look at the fatty looking yellow deposits within damaged arteries (atherosclerosis), and they say – “See, there’s cholesterol – we KNEW that is what was causing hardening of the arteries!” Not so fast. Cholesterol, calcium, macrophage white blood cells, and collagen all form in the scar tissue, and cholesterol was trying to heal the damage! It wasn’t the cause of the inflammation in the first place. We also know that if arteries are not damaged, cholesterol does not accumulate in them! The cause of arterial damage was likely to be something such as free radical activity, high blood sugar, poor diet, or stress (induced by lack of sleep, increased catabolic and decreased anabolic hormones).

NOTE: Several years ago, Dr. Serrano had me lower my refined carb intake, and add in glucose disposal agents, and voila – my total cholesterol went down. I have since used that approach with many folks, and it is my first line of defense in dealing with high levels of cholesterol. I am not treating the cholesterol, I am treating the cause of arterial inflammation, which reduces the bodies need to pump out tons of cholesterol to fix the problem. Give this a try; you will see that this approach may be more effective than using the latest and greatest “cholesterol” lowering supplements.

3. Cell membrane structure - As with fats, cholesterol plays a very important role in giving your cell membranes the proper rigidity to allow messages in and out. Too much saturated fat makes for a too rigid cell membrane. Too much polyunsaturated fat allows for too “flimsy” of a cell membrane. You must have the right balance of fats and also cholesterol for proper functioning cells. That is where it all starts. Also, cholesterol protects our cell membranes from free radical attacks. This is where if you look at a molecule, it has lost an electron. This makes it unstable and reactive. It goes out on a search and steal mission, and tries to take away electrons from other molecules. So you can see this is a very destructive chain reaction type situation. Why should we care? This process damages our cellular DNA, our proteins, fats and a host of other things. Messing things up at a cellular level is the starting point for problems to build upon down the road.

4. Hormone raw material – Ok, for those of you who are interested in strength gains, and more muscle, guess what the parent molecule of sex hormones like testosterone is…ok, now you are learning – yes, cholesterol. Your bench just went up 10lbs! One of the things I have noticed working with natural athletes, who have recently turned drug free, is that eating cholesterol rich foods makes a very noticeable difference in their strength. I see this every time in fact. Hmm…more testosterone maybe? You see, cholesterol is a direct precursor and parent molecule to all of the steroid hormones such as testosterone and adrenal hormones used to regulate blood sugar. Actually, last year there was a study that showed a low dose of Lipitor (10 mg) decreased ALL sex steroids such as test, estradiol, and sulfated DHEA. You could say there is mounting evidence that statins, low intake of dietary cholesterol, etc. can in fact compromise muscle growth. More study is needed in this area for it to be conclusive, but that facts appear to be pointing that way.

Cholesterol is also a direct precursor to bile acids. This is extremely important because they help you absorb fats and fat soluble vitamins. If you have done your homework on Vitamin D, you know that it is actually a pro-hormone, and a very powerful one. A very close precursor to cholesterol is converted to Vitamin D in your skin.

Now I will say this, the body is an amazing thing, and your liver will manufacture more cholesterol if you are not consuming it in your diet, and make less, when you eat like me and eat 6 whole eggs every day. It is very important to know that not consuming dietary cholesterol is not wise though. Can your body make it, yes, but people’s ability to do this varies greatly from person to person. Many things can affect this. Genetics comes to mind first. So in summary, yes, your body can make cholesterol if you don’t eat it, but not everyone’s liver is good at it, so don’t rely on that – bad idea.

 

[LATS]

great thread.. i know that most of us need to rethink and modify our diet.. mine is too high in refined carbs and my trigly show it (274).. but many on here are taking anabolics.. we know that anabolics can throw hdl and ldl in the toilet and mess around cholest.. is it even possible to keep hdl ect in normal ranges while on anabolics? highest i have ever kept mine was 34-35 on the hdl side.. total cholest (with crappy diet) was 204.. i knw i can alter that with diet changes.. but the hdl always bothers me..
i take 1500 niacin (500x 3 a day)
6 grams of fishoil

and have debated on the red rice yeast..

 

[BYBON]

Reposting this to reiterate number 4.

 

[mountaindog1]

Reposting this to reiterate number 4.

TY Bybon - appreciate it brother..

JM

 

[BYBON]

TY Bybon - appreciate it brother..

JM

Yep-I want to get your brain thinking too and sort of respond to LATS, MD.
MY idea of why HDL goes into the shitter during AAS use is a very simple and straightforward reason:

HDL's main reason is to carry cholesterol to the liver or steroidogenic organs-the most important for us being our testes. Cholesterol is ABSOLUTELY needed to make testosterone. No "ifs" or "but's" about it.

With AAS, we no longer need to make testosterone. Thus, we no longer need cholesterol. Thus, no need for HDL. Thus, HDL goes into low levels. Thoughts?

 

[dragonfire101]

NOTE: Several years ago, Dr. Serrano had me lower my refined carb intake, and add in glucose disposal agents, and voila – my total cholesterol went down. I have since used that approach with many folks, and it is my first line of defense in dealing with high levels of cholesterol. I am not treating the cholesterol, I am treating the cause of arterial inflammation, which reduces the bodies need to pump out tons of cholesterol to fix the problem. Give this a try; you will see that this approach may be more effective than using the latest and greatest “cholesterol” lowering supplements.

Which glucose disposal agents do you recommended and or prefer?

 

[mountaindog1]

Which glucose disposal agents do you recommended and or prefer?

ALA, Gymnema Sylvestre, Chromium and a little Vanadyl...I can't let the cat out of the bag just yet, but a certain sponsor is about to start carrying something awesome along these lines

JM

 

[mountaindog1]

Yep-I want to get your brain thinking too and sort of respond to LATS, MD.
MY idea of why HDL goes into the shitter during AAS use is a very simple and straightforward reason:

HDL's main reason is to carry cholesterol to the liver or steroidogenic organs-the most important for us being our testes. Cholesterol is ABSOLUTELY needed to make testosterone. No "ifs" or "but's" about it.

With AAS, we no longer need to make testosterone. Thus, we no longer need cholesterol. Thus, no need for HDL. Thus, HDL goes into low levels. Thoughts?

I think you are a very smart man that is thinking logically. I like it. We'll probably never know for sure, but I must admit, I hadn't even thought of this...that is a great theory...I want to do some research on this and think on it...you got my brain going with that one..

JM

 

[BYBON]

I think you are a very smart man that is thinking logically. I like it. We'll probably never know for sure, but I must admit, I hadn't even thought of this...that is a great theory...I want to do some research on this and think on it...you got my brain going with that one..

JM

I'm sure that you have more resources, too-all I've got is pubmed and physiology textbooks (internet, too)

I should've kept going through college.

 

[zaosha]

Yep-I want to get your brain thinking too and sort of respond to LATS, MD.
MY idea of why HDL goes into the shitter during AAS use is a very simple and straightforward reason:

HDL's main reason is to carry cholesterol to the liver or steroidogenic organs-the most important for us being our testes. Cholesterol is ABSOLUTELY needed to make testosterone. No "ifs" or "but's" about it.

With AAS, we no longer need to make testosterone. Thus, we no longer need cholesterol. Thus, no need for HDL. Thus, HDL goes into low levels. Thoughts?

Single digit dosages of most 17AA orals will crash your HDL while 300mg of Deca/week won't do much at all despte the fact that it will completely shut down test production.

There is some specific aspect of 17AA metabolism which potentiates Hepatic Triglyceride Lipase and wipes out your HDL. This doesn't happen with test and nandrolone so its doubtful androgen biosynthesis/feedback loops have any relevance.

-zaosha

 

[BYBON]

Single digit dosages of most 17AA orals will crash your HDL while 300mg of Deca/week won't do much at all despte the fact that it will completely shut down test production.

There is some specific aspect of 17AA metabolism which potentiates Hepatic Triglyceride Lipase and wipes out your HDL. This doesn't happen with test and nandrolone so its doubtful androgen biosynthesis/feedback loops have any relevance.

-zaosha

Damn, exactly what I was pointing toward...:banghead:

 

[eberlestock]

MD- Simple question compared to the hard-core chemistry you all are discussing, but do you think that real butter is significantly worse than margerine? I've always used the real thing as being more natural than a hydrogenated veg oil, but my labs came in yesterday at 252 total cholesterol, 48 HDL and 177 LDL. So I need to start adjusting my diet, thought about this thread as I was toasting my wheat bread this morning.
And thanks for putting this info out where we can all benefit!

 

[mike036]

great thread.. i know that most of us need to rethink and modify our diet.. mine is too high in refined carbs and my trigly show it (274).. but many on here are taking anabolics.. we know that anabolics can throw hdl and ldl in the toilet and mess around cholest.. is it even possible to keep hdl ect in normal ranges while on anabolics? highest i have ever kept mine was 34-35 on the hdl side.. total cholest (with crappy diet) was 204.. i knw i can alter that with diet changes.. but the hdl always bothers me..
i take 1500 niacin (500x 3 a day)
6 grams of fishoil

and have debated on the red rice yeast..

i was considering using niacin to lower my cholesterol but i read that the doses of 1000- 1500 mg/day were loiver toxic-have you checked your liver enzymes while using 1500 mg/day of niacin?

 

[ridge11]

Yep-I want to get your brain thinking too and sort of respond to LATS, MD.
MY idea of why HDL goes into the shitter during AAS use is a very simple and straightforward reason:

HDL's main reason is to carry cholesterol to the liver or steroidogenic organs-the most important for us being our testes. Cholesterol is ABSOLUTELY needed to make testosterone. No "ifs" or "but's" about it.

With AAS, we no longer need to make testosterone. Thus, we no longer need cholesterol. Thus, no need for HDL. Thus, HDL goes into low levels. Thoughts?

If this is the case would taking hcg stimulate an increase in hdl in those of us on hrt.

 

[bigguns078]

MD- Simple question compared to the hard-core chemistry you all are discussing, but do you think that real butter is significantly worse than margerine? I've always used the real thing as being more natural than a hydrogenated veg oil, but my labs came in yesterday at 252 total cholesterol, 48 HDL and 177 LDL. So I need to start adjusting my diet, thought about this thread as I was toasting my wheat bread this morning.
And thanks for putting this info out where we can all benefit!

If you have read MD's posts, you would know for sure that margarine is artificially hydrogenated oils that cause inflammation.. Raw grass fed butter is one of his favorite foods.. I think the truth is simple: Remove all hydro vegetable oils which are highly oxidized and cut back on the starchy/simple carbs.. Replace with healthy fats..

 

[mountaindog1]

Bump this.

...John, I keep hearing that Red Rice Yeast lowers natural Testosterone. So I've stayed away from it. If that's a myth, then by all means put on your "Myth Buster" hat, and bust it.

Hey Oscar!

I haven't put much time into studying red yeast rice so I am not an expert on it. I love Anthony Colpo's writing on cholesterol, and I read in his book that RYR is really just a natural plant statin that works through the same pathways as medical statins. The active ingredeint in it is Lovastatin which is marketed as Mevacor. So again, I'm no expert on RYR, but if it does work through the same pathways as a statin (HMG-CoA reducatase inhibition - as Bybons diagram points out), than I wouldn't take it - just my opinion.

JM

 

[mountaindog1]

Single digit dosages of most 17AA orals will crash your HDL while 300mg of Deca/week won't do much at all despte the fact that it will completely shut down test production.

There is some specific aspect of 17AA metabolism which potentiates Hepatic Triglyceride Lipase and wipes out your HDL. This doesn't happen with test and nandrolone so its doubtful androgen biosynthesis/feedback loops have any relevance.

-zaosha

Great posts Z. The thing that I notice though, is that many of my friends (many of which are on PR..lol), are scared to take orals and take test, still get low HDL readings. So I think there is something to this, I am just not sure what to make of it yet. Again, thanks for your contributions to this thread - AWESOME. One thing I can tell you, is I hate Aromatase Inhibitors for most - absolutely destroy HDL. Estrogen antagonists such as Nolvadex on the other hand, always have helped maintain HDL in my experience.

JM