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OK, time to get serious....

Didn't miss a workout or an early morning cardio session this week. I'll stay on HRT dosages. Just got them bumped up as high as I could. So starting as of today...

Prescription:
Test Prop - 240mg/wk (40mg ED) (Sunday - Friday / Saturday off)
Hgh - 4iu(2iu am + 2iu pm) ED(*6 days on/1 day off just to match above protocol)
Armour Thyroid - 60mg(38mg T4 + 9mg T3) ED am
Nolvadex - 10mg ED
Lisinopril - 20mg ED
Carvedilol - 6.25mg 2x ED

Non - Prescription additions:
Humanofort - 5caps ED (2 morning + 1 afternoon + 2 before bed)
Carsil(silymarin) - 35mg 2x ED
CoQ-10 - 200mg 2x ED
Slo-Niacin - 750mg 2x ED
Aspirin 200mg ED

(**Haven't spoken with MountainDog on diet yet. I'll let him settle in from his vacation.)
 
looks like a gramplan ....
 
All I can say is watch your hemoglobin/hematocrit closely on a dose of test that high. That is about 2 1/2 times the normal dose. If its true pharm grade test from a doc that is going to put your total test way over the 800 mark. Just 100 mg/wk puts me at about 650. I would guess that your total test is going to be at least 1200 or more. The hemoglobin wont get high until about 48 weeks of use, but it will go over the normal limit I gaurantee that. Your body could handle that kind of dose if that were a "blast" and then you would come down and cruise at 100mg/wk. I would consider doing that at best. I would never take 240mg/wk for 52 weeks out of the year. Do a CBC at least once every 3 months.
 
All I can say is watch your hemoglobin/hematocrit closely on a dose of test that high. That is about 2 1/2 times the normal dose. If its true pharm grade test from a doc that is going to put your total test way over the 800 mark. Just 100 mg/wk puts me at about 650. I would guess that your total test is going to be at least 1200 or more. The hemoglobin wont get high until about 48 weeks of use, but it will go over the normal limit I gaurantee that. Your body could handle that kind of dose if that were a "blast" and then you would come down and cruise at 100mg/wk. I would consider doing that at best. I would never take 240mg/wk for 52 weeks out of the year. Do a CBC at least once every 3 months.
Advice well taken. I do a full panel every 6 months anyway. So adding a CBC in between would be simple and prudent.

In my mid to late 30's your Total Test marks might have been true. But my natural Total Test falls below 100 since my mid 40's. In my mid 50's it's around 65-75. On 240mg/week of pharm grade Test Prop I'm up into the 600s.
 
Advice well taken. I do a full panel every 6 months anyway. So adding a CBC in between would be simple and prudent.

In my mid to late 30's your Total Test marks might have been true. But my natural Total Test falls below 100 since my mid 40's. In my mid 50's it's around 65-75. On 240mg/week of pharm grade Test Prop I'm up into the 600s.

Well, if your total test is in the 600s on that dose then yeah thats perfectly safe. I find it hard to fathom though, even men in their 60s take 100mg/wk at get into the upper 500s. It really is unheard of for someone to need a dose that high. I would wonder about the potency of what youre using.
 
Well, if your total test is in the 600s on that dose then yeah thats perfectly safe. I find it hard to fathom though, even men in their 60s take 100mg/wk at get into the upper 500s. It really is unheard of for someone to need a dose that high. I would wonder about the potency of what youre using.
The nice thing about this place is that there are so many reliable sources giving opinions and suggestions. I base my decisions on sort of a complex or merging of facts that I learn from others, from members like you who post reliably and factually, and facts that I have acquired through lab work and are not debatable.

My last cycle started 2/14/2009 and ended 8/22/2010. So that's more than 48 months of being on with total dosages of stacked AAS between 700mg/wk and 2000mg/wk. I did my labs 9/14/2010.

Here's a sampling of the results so you can see how my body reacts to very long cycles. If I didn't list it, consider it normal. But please ask if you're wondering about any values and I'll post them.

Hemoglobin: 14.4 (expected normal range 12.5 - 17.0)
*Hemotocrit: 44.4 (expected normal range 36.0 - 50.0)
(*Troy Zuccolotto gets credit for this one. It was 47.3 pre-cycle)

RDW: 15.7 (expected normal range 11.0 - 15.0)

Inuslin-Like Growth Factor I: 190 (expected normal range 82 - 225)
IGF-BP3: 3.0 (expected normal range 3.4 - 6.9)

Lipid Panel w/ Chol/HDL Ratios all normal
*HDL: 60 (expected normal range >39)
(*Mountaindog gets all the credit for this one and just about all the rest of the unexpected normals)


*AST: 115 (expected normal range 12.5 - 17.0) Liver not too happy.

Total Serum Testosterone: 42 (expected normal range 280 - 800)
Free Testosterone: 15 (expected normal range 5 - 160)

Free T4: 0.50 (expected normal range 0.82 - 1.77)
FSH: 0.2 (expected normal range 1.5 - 12.4)
LH: 0.2 (expected normal range 1.7 - 8.6)


**I just went back and looked up 3 consecutive labs spanning over 18 months at 240mg/wk. My Total Testosterone stayed between 643 and 701. And my Free Testosterone stayed between 21.7 and 28.1
 
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Oscar - definitely some great advice in this thread. I think Emeric hit it right on the head. One thing for sure, which I know you know..no clen, ephedrine,etc.

Also, I don't think your 600 reading on test is all that strange on the 240 mg dose...I have seen that commonly with 200 mgs. Maldorf provides good insight on his experiences though..not trying to slight his advice which is also very wise.

Something else I would recommend - DESTRESS. Enjoy life. Most of the brightest PHD's in the world talking about various maladies such as heart disease, digrestive issues, etc...all come back to this common theme of stress being a killer. Do your best, train hard (but smart), eat like you have been eating) I told you it would blow you away how good your cholesterol levels would be on the diet)...and HAVE FUN. Share your knowledge with others. Make a difference...I am saying that because I know you already do..just keep doing it!

talk soon
JM
 
Well, I am very surprised at those labs after you being on for over 18 months, to me I never thought I would see such a thing. If its all done accurately though and those tests were run while you were on the drugs, then not so bad. The tests were run toward the end while you were still on or did you wait a month or more before you did it? Even if you waited 1 month and your hemoglobin was that low I would have expected it to still be high so that means it probably wasnt much higher earlier on.
To me these test results you have are highly uncommon and I urge others to not lower their defense and do a cycle like that withtout running complete blood work at least once every 3 months. Im just worried that others will see this and think well, if he could do it then so can I!
Looks like youve been so much more careful than the average guy about getting tested.
I do have one question for you. WHen you were diagnosed with cardiomyopathy, were you taking AAS or had you ever used AAS? I think I have conveyed the fact that I too was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy prior to my heart attack and I blamed it on a virus. I went back on AAS after about 10 months of being clean.

PS, just read your post again and I see you were off for about 1 month before you took the test. Why not test yourself at the very end of the cycle when your AAS levels in the blood are their highest. If your doses arent the highest at the end, try to test yourself when your in the midst of taking the most. I would value those levels more than the levels you see after 1 month of rest. You should have had tests done though during the cycle? Can you post those for us? Id like to see where those were at.
 
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Please see blue
Well, I am very surprised at those labs after you being on for over 18 months, to me I never thought I would see such a thing. I thought you would be.

If its all done accurately though and those tests were run while you were on the drugs, then not so bad. The tests were run toward the end while you were still on or did you wait a month or more before you did it? Even if you waited 1 month and your hemoglobin was that low I would have expected it to still be high so that means it probably wasnt much higher earlier on. All my labs have been doctor prescribed and done through LabCorp.

And yes, my January 2010 Labs done just prior to my viral injection concur with your expectations.


To me these test results you have are highly uncommon and I urge others to not lower their defense and do a cycle like that withtout running complete blood work at least once every 3 months. Im just worried that others will see this and think well, if he could do it then so can I! I agree. Everyone is different in their response and tolerance to both foods and chemicals. You can take a group and describe what you see in summarized generalities. But you cannot apply those generalities to any one individual within that group.

Looks like youve been so much more careful than the average guy about getting tested. Hahaha!!! I'm a techie nerd. So that's to be expected.

I do have one question for you. WHen you were diagnosed with cardiomyopathy, were you taking AAS or had you ever used AAS? I think I have conveyed the fact that I too was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy prior to my heart attack and I blamed it on a virus. I went back on AAS after about 10 months of being clean. I was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy in early February of 2010 immediately after my viral attack. It hit me very fast and hard. I lost 18lbs in 3 days and could hardly move. My body felt like it weighed 500lbs. Pretty much here's how it went.

The infection came on in less than half a day. January 26th or 27th, I don't remember off the top of my head the exact day. But I went to work, started feeling tired and heavy, then sick and dizzy. I excused myself, drove home and crashed into my carport post. Got out of the car and didn't even look at the damage. By that afternoon I couldn't walk 5 feet without dropping to the floor or leaning both hands on the wall.

Within hours my organs started shutting down. By the third day I was almost comatose. But by the end of that same day, I started feeling better. By the 5th day I felt like I was recovering from a bad case of the flu. My ecco showed the mitrial valve, left ventrical and center wall were all normal. And steroids were somewhat ruled out since typically the center wall swells. But the upper outer right wall of the right ventrical was very swollen. I was told unless I was a very heavy drinker, I had just survived a viral attack.

I went home and rested a few days until I felt better. February 11th I tried going back into the gym and doing a very light workout using very light weight and high reps. But that night got sick, throwing up and such. So I realized I had to wait. So about two months later I went back into the gym and started in very slowly.

On or about 4/20/2010 I contacted Mountaindog, didn't tell him very much, just that I'd been sick, and went right back into my contest prep leading to last year's North American. It's scary that I would have made those choices without flinching. But that's the real story along with the choices I made.

I want you to know that this is the first time I've ever actually told the whole story to anyone. I've only told bits and pieces to explain my absence. I just recently told Mountaindog I would write it all down for him in an email but I didn't. I hope this post will not offend him. As I have nothing but respect for him. But I wanted to die fighting, ...not waiting.


PS, just read your post again and I see you were off for about 1 month before you took the test. Why not test yourself at the very end of the cycle when your AAS levels in the blood are their highest. If your doses arent the highest at the end, try to test yourself when your in the midst of taking the most. I would value those levels more than the levels you see after 1 month of rest. You should have had tests done though during the cycle? Can you post those for us? Id like to see where those were at.The January labs look almost the same except the cholesterol was upside down, Pregnenolone was non-existent, Total Testosterone was >800, and Hemoglobin was 17.7 & Hemotocrit was 51.5. I had been on just over 2g of AAS/wk for about 7 weeks. Before that I was at around 700mg/wk of AAS for about 10 months.
 
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ojs, I always gravitate to these "ol farts" threads because I am in the club myself at 57. You look truly great. I have learned and as you already know, you just never know what life will bring your way. Its about adapting and moving forward within new parameters. These things catch up to everyone at some point. Take care of that ticker first man. Sounds like you are. Never say "you probably will not have..." I bet you will.
 
Well, your hemoglobin and hct were still within normal parameters after all that. Considering all the data you have put forward, I think what you set out to do may not be too dangerous. Only thing I would do different is do a CBC every 3 months instead of 6. How often do you get an echocardiogram, once a year? Just gotta be sure that the ejection fraction isnt getting worse. Im glad you shared your story about getting that virus. It sounds like you could have very well died from that. It really does sound like the cause of your heart trouble.
 
Well, your hemoglobin and hct were still within normal parameters after all that. Considering all the data you have put forward, I think what you set out to do may not be too dangerous. Only thing I would do different is do a CBC every 3 months instead of 6. How often do you get an echocardiogram, once a year? Just gotta be sure that the ejection fraction isnt getting worse. Im glad you shared your story about getting that virus. It sounds like you could have very well died from that. It really does sound like the cause of your heart trouble.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences. It's valuable to me in that it's making me want to be more careful. The doc wants an echo done about every 3 months to keep an eye on the mitral valve leak. Since September, after the North American, I've been complying.

The doctor wants to see me once a month. But I've been pushing it off to every two. And, like I said earlier, I will be taking that advice and doing the CBC every 3 months. My ejection fraction has been sitting at 35 and not improving.

Again thanks.
 
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By the way, for you guys over 55, about 180,000 men between 55 and 64 will die this year of something here in the US. About 30% percent of those deaths will be from cardiac failure.

So with or without AAS we will fall. It's all part of the aging process. My step-father died at 52 from heart failure. And about 27% of my male high school classmates have died (noted at last year's 40 year reunion). About half of them died from heart failure. The heart related death numbers are much lower for those that live in more rural areas.

For you younger guys, the numbers are considerably lower unless you are introducing obvious high risk factors. You can only push your heart and vessels so much. And then you ARE playing with fire. And Maldorf stands as the perfect example.
 
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By the way, for you guys over 55, about 180,000 men between 55 and 64 will die this year of something here in the US. About 30% percent of those deaths will be from cardiac failure.

So with or without AAS we will fall. It's all part of the aging process. My step-father died at 52 from heart failure. And about 27% of my male high school classmates have died (noted at last year's 40 year reunion). About half of them died from heart failure. The heart related death numbers are much lower for those that live in more rural areas.

For you younger guys, the numbers are considerably lower unless you are introducing obvious high risk factors. You can only push your heart and vessels so much. And then you ARE playing with fire. And Maldorf stands as the perfect example.

Very true. In the general US population these days, fully 1/3 of everyone less than 65 y/o has some degree of heart disease. I would venture to say that around here, that number is higher. I work in a high stress career and I have personally know 2 men that have had heart attacks in their 40's. No one gets a free ticket forever. In this life, you have to look at it in the face and manage your risk factors.
 
Don't have much to add, but thanks tons for posting all the info guys. Lots to learn here.

OJS - looks like a solid cycle. :headbang:I wish you well in the coming weeks!
 
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences. It's valuable to me in that it's making me want to be more careful. The doc wants an echo done about every 3 months to keep an eye on the mitral valve leak. Since September, after the North American, I've been complying.

The doctor wants to see me once a month. But I've been pushing it off to every two. And, like I said earlier, I will be taking that advice and doing the CBC every 3 months. My ejection fraction has been sitting at 35 and not improving.

Again thanks.

Wow, an echo every 3 months. That's great and Ive never heard of getting one so frequent. My doc only does one on me once a year. The echo is damn expensive. It seems like the cost has doubled in the past 2 years since I started getting them. Sounds like he is really keeping a close eye on you and thats good.
 
ditch the aspirin and get some nattokinase if you are serious about being on a very good blood thinning agent.
 
Wow, an echo every 3 months. That's great and Ive never heard of getting one so frequent. My doc only does one on me once a year. The echo is damn expensive. It seems like the cost has doubled in the past 2 years since I started getting them. Sounds like he is really keeping a close eye on you and thats good.
He says it's because my mitral valve just started leaking and because it wasn't leaking in September he's concerned. Also because of my age all things heart related can happen rapidly. So he wants to see some stabilization. Hey, but I figure I'm just like an old Mercedes Benz, something gives out eventually. As good as they are, they don't run forever.
 
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