paypal problems

PUMPED · Feb 16, 2005

well long story short somebody or somehow I got $500 taken twice off my card via paypal yesterday and I wasnt even home at the time. I have cancled my card and trying to contact paypal about this matter is a task on its own.

This is the email addy of the person who got me for $500 twice yesterday

Dear *************

This email confirms that you sent $500.00 USD to [email protected].

------------------------------
Payment Details
------------------------------

Amount: $500.00 USD
Transaction ID:****************

and this is the other email I got from paypal

As part of our security measures, we regularly screen activity in the
PayPal system. We recently noticed the following issue on your account:

We would like to ensure that your account was not accessed by an
unauthorized third party. Because protecting the security of your account
is our primary concern, we have limited access to sensitive PayPal account
features. We understand that this may be an inconvenience but please
understand that this temporary limitation is for your protection.
Case ID Number: PP-067-728-879

For your protection, we have limited access to your account until
additional security measures can be completed. We apologize for any
inconvenience this may cause.

Please log in to PayPal to restore your account access as soon as possible.
Be sure to log in securely by typing the PayPal URL into a new browser
window. Once you log in, you will be provided with steps to return your
account to regular standing. We appreciate your understanding as we work to
ensure account safety.

In accordance with PayPal's User Agreement, your account access will remain
limited until the issue has been resolved. Unfortunately, if access to your
account remains limited for an extended period of time, it may result in
further limitations or eventual account closure. We encourage you to log in
to your PayPal account as soon as possible to help avoid this.

To review your account and some or all of the information that PayPal used
to make its decision to limit your account access, please visit the
Resolution Center. If, after reviewing your account information, you seek
further clarification regarding your account access, please contact PayPal
by visiting the Help Center and clicking "Contact Us".
We thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. Please understand
that this is a security measure intended to help protect you and your
account. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Sincerely,
PayPal Account Review Department

PayPal Email ID PP522

PHATBOI · Feb 16, 2005

That's F@#*ED up!

Don't worry too much bro. Your money is insured by PP and they are great at solving this sort of stuff out.
I deal with them a lot over at ebay and have seen them in action. They're good!
That's just kinda screwed up that you gotta be with out the $$$ until they figure this mess out and replace your loot.

If you find out who did this put'em in some cement shoes!

Coopie · Feb 16, 2005

PayPal is a wholly owned subsidiary of eBay. Sorry to say that all of the typical "credit card protections", i.e., anti-fraud measures, reimbursement for fraudulent charges, etc. are out the window when dealing with PayPal.

These consumer protections, known as "Reg Z" within the credit card industry, are not applicable to PayPal transactions because of the simple fact that PayPal is acting as a "facilitator" of the transaction, not as a "merchant". You are protected from merchants, not facilitators. Here's why: PayPal's job is to take the $ from your credit card and place it into a master account. It then parcels out the master account funds to individuals who, in theory, have provided you with goods or services. So, if the $ was taken from your account and placed into PayPal's account - they have done their job perfectly.

If you read the PayPal service agreement you will see that they disclaim any and all responsibility and liability against fraud. Interestingly, if you read your eBay service agreement, they do the same.

PayPal and eBay collectively account for over 6 million fraudulent transactions on credit cards per year. That's about 16,000 per day! It's a little known fact outside the world of credit card law.

You should forget about dealing with eBay and PayPal in terms of recouping your $, and go directly to your credit card issuer. They will usually make you whole for the first instance of PayPal fraud - as a courtesy. After that, you're on your own.

You'll have to file a fraud report and write a brief letter. Just stick to the facts as you know them, and you'll win your case within a month or so. Not a big deal but exercise extreme caution with PayPal and eBay.

xcelbeyond · Feb 16, 2005

I know Animal had a ton of problems with them. I have an online business and used to offer it. I lost a "little bit" of money (not anywhere the amount you did) and just bagged them. Just the fact it happened "once" was enough to show it's not a foolproof system.

brandonjpowell · Feb 17, 2005

I would tell PayPal about your loss and then contact your credit card company about this issue.

I would also then contact Microsoft about the fraud committed from that hotmail address and see if the person registered their real name and address with hotmail. Considering they got you twice from that same address I'll bet that they used a fake name but you never know.

If Microsoft will not help you find the person you could always "ping" the email address to see where the message originated. It might point to the persons computer.

If PayPal, your credit card company and Microsoft will not help you the only other option you have is to get an attorney to file charges against the person and or your credit card company. You lost $1,000 total and that is a felony!

brandonjpowell · Feb 17, 2005

Here is the program you need...

This program should track the email back to the originating computer so you can "directly" locate who ripped you off... http://www.emailtrackerpro.com/index.html

Coopie · Feb 17, 2005

Neither PayPal nor Microsoft is allowed to release private info, such as the owner of an email address, without a subpoena. Here in NY State, the subpoena process costs roughly $1,500. Good luck... The attorney's fees will be in excess of your losses before you even present your case. And, there's no reason to do so because you'll be kicked out of civil court (and criminal court too) because the proper venue for this type of situation is Small Claims Court (losses below the $5,000 jurisdictional threshold).

Bottom line is, contact the credit card issuer. No need to do anything else.

Let's not overcomplicate what is an otherwise simple situation.

Ethan James · Feb 17, 2005

Coopie said:
Neither PayPal nor Microsoft is allowed to release private info, such as the owner of an email address, without a subpoena. Here in NY State, the subpoena process costs roughly $1,500. Good luck... The attorney's fees will be in excess of your losses before you even present your case. And, there's no reason to do so because you'll be kicked out of civil court (and criminal court too) because the proper venue for this type of situation is Small Claims Court (losses below the $5,000 jurisdictional threshold).

Bottom line is, contact the credit card issuer. No need to do anything else.

Let's not overcomplicate what is an otherwise simple situation.

Coopie, you always have some great posts when it comes to dealing with law. Thanks.

brandonjpowell · Feb 17, 2005

Thanks for the info..

I knew it would be expensive for him to pursue but had no idea that it would cost so much. At any rate that is why I suggested the email trace program. PayPal and Microsoft might not help, but if you can find out exactly where that fuck lives and contact him at his home about this and you just might get a favorable reaction.

Coopie said:
Neither PayPal nor Microsoft is allowed to release private info, such as the owner of an email address, without a subpoena. Here in NY State, the subpoena process costs roughly $1,500. Good luck... The attorney's fees will be in excess of your losses before you even present your case. And, there's no reason to do so because you'll be kicked out of civil court (and criminal court too) because the proper venue for this type of situation is Small Claims Court (losses below the $5,000 jurisdictional threshold).

Bottom line is, contact the credit card issuer. No need to do anything else.

Let's not overcomplicate what is an otherwise simple situation.

Dave_19 · Feb 17, 2005

Their are over seas hackers that are doing a pretty good job of taking over ebay and pay pal.. they have impressive emails that are actually written from the right addresses that sometimes ask you to do something dumb like update your info or check balance, if you do anything in this email your info is stolen according to ebay and pay pal.. here is a fake email I have gotten recently from a hacker, but written from paypa (BTW i deleted some lines in the link incase someone clicked it)l::

Dear dav******@gmail.com,

In response for your PayPal account security we have to report that
your password may be compromised. Your account is marked for too many
successfull logins last week February 5 - 12, 2005). It is more
interesting
that the hostnames are form different countries:

United States (c-67-160-224-80.client.comcast.net)
Canada (HSE-Toronto-ppp3044429.sympatico.ca)
Sweden (c213-100-93-27.swipnet.se)
Russia (32.122.140.213.telenet.ru)

Your account is limited for security reasons.

Follow the link to make sure you are on a secure PayPal page and login
with your currently password.
Please authorize your account information before February 17, 2005.

http://212.11.*****194/linpha/.p/.online/login/ws/?cmd=_logiun

Thank you for using PayPal
The PayPal Team

Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address cannot be
answered. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account and choose the
"Help" link in the header of any page.

PayPal Email ID PP23897

Coopie · Feb 17, 2005

The company that developed PayPal years ago subsequently sold the project because it was too "flawed". It was determined after extensive legal, regulatory, and customer service reviews that it was too problematic for this company to keep. A few smaller companies bid for the PayPal package, and ultimatly eBay bought it.

It is still considered nothing more than a bad joke within the industry....