peg mgf for site growth?

[spitfire5454]

hey guys, ive heard some say that peg mgf can be used for local growth since it is not systemic. ive heard others say that its BS. Tell me what you think about this: ill be finishing up a cycle of synthol in a about a week. ive put on about a 2" on my arms. traditionally, during the maintance peroid, one should be builiding muscle to fill in the stretched fascia and should be able to keep about half of the size gained. i was planning on running 200mcg in each arm muscle after my arm workout (1x week) for six weeks. if this works for site growth i should be able to keep most if not all of my gained size. i dont really want to run IGF along with it b/c im sick of sticking myself. if anything it should make for a good experiement. does this seem feasible or is my logic way off? i know a lot of people rip on synthol, but coulpled with mgf, i could be very effective size builder. thanks.

 

[Bobaslaw]

hey guys, ive heard some say that peg mgf can be used for local growth since it is not systemic. ive heard others say that its BS. Tell me what you think about this: ill be finishing up a cycle of synthol in a about a week. ive put on about a 2" on my arms. traditionally, during the maintance peroid, one should be builiding muscle to fill in the stretched fascia and should be able to keep about half of the size gained. i was planning on running 200mcg in each arm muscle after my arm workout (1x week) for six weeks. if this works for site growth i should be able to keep most if not all of my gained size. i dont really want to run IGF along with it b/c im sick of sticking myself. if anything it should make for a good experiement. does this seem feasible or is my logic way off? i know a lot of people rip on synthol, but coulpled with mgf, i could be very effective size builder. thanks.

This is my understanding of the subject:

The method of action of Peg-MGF/MGF (IGF-1Ec) is to agonize muscle stem cells to proliferate and pool at the site of muscular trauma. This gives an adequete supply of myoblasts to quickly allow muscle fiber repair.
IGF-1 is actually what triggers the fusion/differentiation of the pooled stem cells to fuse to damaged fibers (cells) as well as produce new muscle fibers by triggering stem cells to fuse together instead (hyperplasia).
Thus any permanent local growth will only come from IGF-1 Lr3 use not from Peg-MGF/MGF. I say permanent because there may be some degree of volumizing effect from extreme stem cell pooling by MGF which would more than likely be temporary.

My 2 Cents.

Take Care.

 

[mojo jojo]

Here are two things that I am going to draw an assumption from.

1. Anything that is water soluble is going to get into the bloodstream very quickly if you inject it into the muscle.
2. Peg MGF is supposed to stay active for several days.

My assumption drawn from these two things is that if Peg MGF is not systemic then it is pretty much worthless. What would even be the point of making something last several days in the body if it was not systemic?

And this is not to say that Peg MGF may not be worthless to begin with. I haven't seen any great research to show that it is. I've only seen speculation which is exactly what I am posting too.

Good luck

 

[Emmortal]

I suggest you all read this and not dismiss pegMGF so quickly, it's a very powerful peptide when used properly:

MGF Handbook
**broken link removed**

This was written by FinaFreak. from OSBB

Most of us are familiar with the peptides Insulin-Like Growth Factor (IGF) and Mechano Growth Factor (MGF). We know things like IGF creates new muscle cells and helps drop body fat and MGF helps facilitate this muscle growth and fat loss.

In the beginning:

When IGF first made its way onto the bodybuilding scene most people were injecting it every day and noticed that after somewhere around 30 days the effects of IGF wore off. This was blamed on receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization". To combat this people started a 5-on 2-off rotation and then went to a post workout only rotation which extended the time on IGF an additional 10-20 days. But the problem with the lack of "receptor response" was still present.

Then MGF came onto the scene. MGF was suppose to be the next best thing in bodybuilding. It was suppose to be more anabolic than AAS and better suited for building new muscle than IGF, the problem was that it wasn't. Because of its instability it was quickly broken down once injected into the body, to prevent this PegMGF was created. This new MGF was now able to survive in the body from anywhere in the 1-3 days. Combining this new peptide discovery with IGF was suppose to be able to make all of us the next Mr. Olympia. But what happened? Why do we not see a flood of new pros?

What happened:

In theory these two peptides should cause some great results, the problem is they do not work together very well unless your timing is spot on (I will go into greater detail later). In short stem cells in the presence of MGF will cause the cells to split and multiply. When the cells are multiplying they cannot form new tissue and the effects of IGF are completely blocked. So the two together are not very compatible.

Then why not just use IGF? Well most do use IGF only and get great results, but there is that pesky business of receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization" and you have to end a cycle of IGF after 30-50 days and there is no way to prevent it... or is there?

The science:

In a natural system (Our Body) we have peaks and dips with MGF and IGF levels. The reasons for these peaks and dips are to create the ideal amount of cells to repair and create new tissue. After strenuous exercise the levels of MGF in the body (more specifically in the muscle just trained) increase dramatically and there is a dramatic decrease of IGF levels. The reason for this is because MGF causes stem cells to proliferate (split and multiply). This process ensures that there are enough cells available to make repairs and to create new tissue in order for the tissue to function efficiently and properly (in this case skeletal muscle tissue). As mentioned above in the presence of MGF there is no need for IGF because it is rendered useless and cannot activate the stem cells, so this explains the bodies response to decrease IGF levels.

In 12-36 hours MGF levels begin to drop and there is a direct correlation in the rise of IGF levels within the body. Stem cells have proliferated and now the IGF will bind to the proper receptors and cause differentiation (force the stem cells to form into a specific cell for a specific tissue type). This process repeats every time you exercise and keeps the natural system in an efficient state.

When flooding the body with these artificial peptides a person will change this natural system dramatically. A person using MGF only is causing stem cell proliferation while at the same time preventing IGF to perform its duties of creating new tissue from those newly created stem cells. A person using IGF only is depleting the supply of stem cells at a rate much faster than the body can keep up, leading to a depletion of available stem cells and not receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization."

This sounds like a lose-lose situation. You are throwing off your body's final tuned muscle repairing mechanism, depleting valuable stem cells or creating too many stem cells for your body to deal with. Why bother?

The climax:

The reason why we bother is because we want to reach or goals. We want to be the biggest bodybuilder, the best powerlifter or whatever it is that we are training so hard for. These peptides are a great addition to our arsenal, but learning to use them properly is the key to utilizing their benefits.

The key is retraining the way we think about MGF and IGF. We have to understand that we are dealing with the creation and depletion of stem cells that are going to be responsible for our muscular growth. Our bodies do not have a constant supply of these stem cells and our bodies will not naturally utilize all of the stem cells it has created. Since we are trying to artificially manipulate the amount and utilization of these stem cells we have to look at this is a different manner.

While we may never get the exogenous MGF and IGF levels just right so that we may counteract the depletion of the stem cells we can adjust our protocols in a way that will increase the amount of time a person can use and respond to both peptides.

The Conclusion Part 1, MGF:

We know that the PegMGF will stay in the body for several days and we know that while in the presence of MGF stem cells will proliferate and the use of IGF is futile. We also know that MGF without the peg is of little to no help because of how quickly exogenous MGF is broken down within the body. So what are the options?

Well both can be of use! PegMGF can be of great use as long as the individual using the peptide in conjuction with IGF understands that the two peptides must be injected in a manner that falls outside of the current way of thinking. And MGF without the Peg addition can also be utilized as long as you don't mind being a pin cushion.

The key with MGF is to learn to either follow your bodies natural peaks and dips of MGF levels and force proliferation on a larger scale with MGF, or to force a longer period of cell proliferation with the use of PegMGF. The key is you have to have stem cells in order to create new muscle tissue.

The Conclusion Part 2, IGF:

Now that we have hit the MGF part of the cycle, now we move into the part of the cycle that utilizes the stem cells. Again we want to either follow the body's natural peaks and dips of IGF levels or we are going to want to cause a prolonged forced differentiation phase. The latter of the two options is simply following standard protocol of everyday injections or 5-on 2-off. The other is all about timing. We know that MGF levels peak in the body after strenuous exercise, so why would you want to inject a substance that is useless in the presence of MGF right when MGF levels are at their highest? The answer is you don't! You will want to wait and inject the IGF 24hrs after the exercise. This will give ample time for the MGF peak to start to dip and can closely mimic the natural rise in IGF levels. This will allow for a person to use a more efficient dose since the timing of the IGF will correspond closely to the dip in MGF levels resulting in greater utilization of the exogenous IGF.

The cycles:

There are a few cycles I would recommend.

The first being IGF only. It works, maybe not the most efficient plan out there but it does work none-the-less.

The second would be the PegMGF/IGF combination. This is not the most efficient methos but should significantly increase the amount of time one can be on an MGF/IGF cycle and still see positive results. (This may have to be altered according to your training schedule)

Sunday - Off Training - Mid-day PegMGF 200-300mcg
Monday - Training (Afternoon)
Tuesday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Wednesday - Training (Afternoon)
Thursday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Friday - Training (Afternoon)
Saturday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF Injection 40-80mcg

The addition of the PegMGF will cause an increase in amount and duration of stem cell proliferation and should subside about the period of the first IGF injection. While this will not keep stem cell levels stable it should prevent the drastic decrease in stem cell numbers seen with IGF only cycles and should significantly increase cycle length.

The third would be the use of regular MGF plus the addition of IGF and woulld closely mimic the natural system.

Sunday - Off Training
Monday - Training (afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
Tuesday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Wednesday - Training (Afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
Thursday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Friday - Training (Afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
Saturday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg

This protocol should closely mimic natural peaks and dips in MGF and IGF within the specific muscles being trained. While regular MGF is short lived in the body the addition on the regular MGF 1 hour post workout should cause an increase in cell proliferation beyond the natural system's ability and should create a larger pool of stem cells for the utilization of IGF therapy.

 

[Bobaslaw]

Correct. Everything in the MGF handbook supports my conclusions about MGF.

MGF will speed proliferation of myoblasts, pooling them to be available for a faster recovery by allowing IGF (endogenous or exogenous) to agonize the abundant myoblasts and help speed repair and possibly cause a certain degree of hyperplasia. However, for decent hyperplasia, I do not beleive endogenous levels of IGF will be sufficient, thus the dosages of Lr3.

So, the benefit of MGF is that it will help the "1st" step occur faster, but by itself it will not "grow" new muscle fibers.

 

[Builtlilcolt]

Great post ...

That was a great post! Helped to put it all together in a manner that made a lot of sense. I'll definitely follow your advise down the line. I was wondering ... if you were also using hGH, would you hold it around the time you used the PEG-MGF?

 

[stanio115]

I suggest you all read this and not dismiss pegMGF so quickly, it's a very powerful peptide when used properly:

MGF Handbook
**broken link removed**

This was written by FinaFreak. from OSBB

Most of us are familiar with the peptides Insulin-Like Growth Factor (IGF) and Mechano Growth Factor (MGF). We know things like IGF creates new muscle cells and helps drop body fat and MGF helps facilitate this muscle growth and fat loss.

In the beginning:

When IGF first made its way onto the bodybuilding scene most people were injecting it every day and noticed that after somewhere around 30 days the effects of IGF wore off. This was blamed on receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization". To combat this people started a 5-on 2-off rotation and then went to a post workout only rotation which extended the time on IGF an additional 10-20 days. But the problem with the lack of "receptor response" was still present.

Then MGF came onto the scene. MGF was suppose to be the next best thing in bodybuilding. It was suppose to be more anabolic than AAS and better suited for building new muscle than IGF, the problem was that it wasn't. Because of its instability it was quickly broken down once injected into the body, to prevent this PegMGF was created. This new MGF was now able to survive in the body from anywhere in the 1-3 days. Combining this new peptide discovery with IGF was suppose to be able to make all of us the next Mr. Olympia. But what happened? Why do we not see a flood of new pros?

What happened:

In theory these two peptides should cause some great results, the problem is they do not work together very well unless your timing is spot on (I will go into greater detail later). In short stem cells in the presence of MGF will cause the cells to split and multiply. When the cells are multiplying they cannot form new tissue and the effects of IGF are completely blocked. So the two together are not very compatible.

Then why not just use IGF? Well most do use IGF only and get great results, but there is that pesky business of receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization" and you have to end a cycle of IGF after 30-50 days and there is no way to prevent it... or is there?

The science:

In a natural system (Our Body) we have peaks and dips with MGF and IGF levels. The reasons for these peaks and dips are to create the ideal amount of cells to repair and create new tissue. After strenuous exercise the levels of MGF in the body (more specifically in the muscle just trained) increase dramatically and there is a dramatic decrease of IGF levels. The reason for this is because MGF causes stem cells to proliferate (split and multiply). This process ensures that there are enough cells available to make repairs and to create new tissue in order for the tissue to function efficiently and properly (in this case skeletal muscle tissue). As mentioned above in the presence of MGF there is no need for IGF because it is rendered useless and cannot activate the stem cells, so this explains the bodies response to decrease IGF levels.

In 12-36 hours MGF levels begin to drop and there is a direct correlation in the rise of IGF levels within the body. Stem cells have proliferated and now the IGF will bind to the proper receptors and cause differentiation (force the stem cells to form into a specific cell for a specific tissue type). This process repeats every time you exercise and keeps the natural system in an efficient state.

When flooding the body with these artificial peptides a person will change this natural system dramatically. A person using MGF only is causing stem cell proliferation while at the same time preventing IGF to perform its duties of creating new tissue from those newly created stem cells. A person using IGF only is depleting the supply of stem cells at a rate much faster than the body can keep up, leading to a depletion of available stem cells and not receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization."

This sounds like a lose-lose situation. You are throwing off your body's final tuned muscle repairing mechanism, depleting valuable stem cells or creating too many stem cells for your body to deal with. Why bother?

The climax:

The reason why we bother is because we want to reach or goals. We want to be the biggest bodybuilder, the best powerlifter or whatever it is that we are training so hard for. These peptides are a great addition to our arsenal, but learning to use them properly is the key to utilizing their benefits.

The key is retraining the way we think about MGF and IGF. We have to understand that we are dealing with the creation and depletion of stem cells that are going to be responsible for our muscular growth. Our bodies do not have a constant supply of these stem cells and our bodies will not naturally utilize all of the stem cells it has created. Since we are trying to artificially manipulate the amount and utilization of these stem cells we have to look at this is a different manner.

While we may never get the exogenous MGF and IGF levels just right so that we may counteract the depletion of the stem cells we can adjust our protocols in a way that will increase the amount of time a person can use and respond to both peptides.

The Conclusion Part 1, MGF:

We know that the PegMGF will stay in the body for several days and we know that while in the presence of MGF stem cells will proliferate and the use of IGF is futile. We also know that MGF without the peg is of little to no help because of how quickly exogenous MGF is broken down within the body. So what are the options?

Well both can be of use! PegMGF can be of great use as long as the individual using the peptide in conjuction with IGF understands that the two peptides must be injected in a manner that falls outside of the current way of thinking. And MGF without the Peg addition can also be utilized as long as you don't mind being a pin cushion.

The key with MGF is to learn to either follow your bodies natural peaks and dips of MGF levels and force proliferation on a larger scale with MGF, or to force a longer period of cell proliferation with the use of PegMGF. The key is you have to have stem cells in order to create new muscle tissue.

The Conclusion Part 2, IGF:

Now that we have hit the MGF part of the cycle, now we move into the part of the cycle that utilizes the stem cells. Again we want to either follow the body's natural peaks and dips of IGF levels or we are going to want to cause a prolonged forced differentiation phase. The latter of the two options is simply following standard protocol of everyday injections or 5-on 2-off. The other is all about timing. We know that MGF levels peak in the body after strenuous exercise, so why would you want to inject a substance that is useless in the presence of MGF right when MGF levels are at their highest? The answer is you don't! You will want to wait and inject the IGF 24hrs after the exercise. This will give ample time for the MGF peak to start to dip and can closely mimic the natural rise in IGF levels. This will allow for a person to use a more efficient dose since the timing of the IGF will correspond closely to the dip in MGF levels resulting in greater utilization of the exogenous IGF.

The cycles:

There are a few cycles I would recommend.

The first being IGF only. It works, maybe not the most efficient plan out there but it does work none-the-less.

The second would be the PegMGF/IGF combination. This is not the most efficient methos but should significantly increase the amount of time one can be on an MGF/IGF cycle and still see positive results. (This may have to be altered according to your training schedule)

Sunday - Off Training - Mid-day PegMGF 200-300mcg
Monday - Training (Afternoon)
Tuesday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Wednesday - Training (Afternoon)
Thursday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Friday - Training (Afternoon)
Saturday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF Injection 40-80mcg

The addition of the PegMGF will cause an increase in amount and duration of stem cell proliferation and should subside about the period of the first IGF injection. While this will not keep stem cell levels stable it should prevent the drastic decrease in stem cell numbers seen with IGF only cycles and should significantly increase cycle length.

The third would be the use of regular MGF plus the addition of IGF and woulld closely mimic the natural system.

Sunday - Off Training
Monday - Training (afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
Tuesday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Wednesday - Training (Afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
Thursday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Friday - Training (Afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
Saturday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg

This protocol should closely mimic natural peaks and dips in MGF and IGF within the specific muscles being trained. While regular MGF is short lived in the body the addition on the regular MGF 1 hour post workout should cause an increase in cell proliferation beyond the natural system's ability and should create a larger pool of stem cells for the utilization of IGF therapy.

very good article!