Protien Vs. Calories for muscle?

fmrmarineinbiz3 · Jul 17, 2008

A friend and co worker of mine is studying to be a nutritionist. We got into a debate the other day about which was more important. She's convinced that I only need about 80 grams of protien daily for my bodybuilding needs. LOL. She also thinks all the "excess" protien I'm eating is a waste of money, and very unhealthy for me. I know better from personal experience that I can't grow on smaller amounts of protien, and told her about examples of when I'd eaten less protien vs. my typical which lately averages 400-450 grams daily. She said basically it was the calories, not the protien responsible.

bhumik · Jul 17, 2008

I think she is right to some extent, unless you are on AAS.

PHIL HERNON · Jul 17, 2008

honestly

fmrmarineinbiz3 said:
A friend and co worker of mine is studying to be a nutritionist. We got into a debate the other day about which was more important. She's convinced that I only need about 80 grams of protien daily for my bodybuilding needs. LOL. She also thinks all the "excess" protien I'm eating is a waste of money, and very unhealthy for me. I know better from personal experience that I can't grow on smaller amounts of protien, and told her about examples of when I'd eaten less protien vs. my typical which lately averages 400-450 grams daily. She said basically it was the calories, not the protien responsible.

i think you both are wrong

but i will not keep going over and over and over this

Titan1969 · Jul 17, 2008

Yes several studies have shown that the body will hold a "normal" range of muscle tissue with only 1gram of protein for every 2.2lbs of lean body mass. So a 220lb BB maybe 190 or so in contest shape, subtract water, etc...needs only 70-80 grams per day, ideally.

Remember the body wasnt designed to gain muscle like we are doing. It hates it and see the extra muscle as a energy usage in times of famine. We are and always will be "hunter gathers". Unless someone clones more of Ronnie!

I do think that for BB 1.5grams per lb of bodyweight is a better amount for gaining muscle...I simply get fat on 2grams per lb of bodyweight. I drop to 1 gram per lb when contest time approaches.

gordo14 · Jul 17, 2008

So........

PHIL HERNON said:
i think you both are wrong but i will not keep going over and over and over this

So what your saying is that it has more to do with the quality, availability, and absorbtion rate of the protein??.....Correct? Man i need to get me some LBA'S!

Phidias · Jul 17, 2008

Read Phil's sig...

"Caution: This could happen if you train 1x per week and eat 80g of protein per day
-MARSHALL Feb. 26, 2007"

BTW what has become of Vand... oups I mean Marshall?

oldfella · Jul 17, 2008

I wasn't going to reply here because it will probably turn into a train wreck with all the differing opinons.

I have had plenty of Nutritionists/dieticians come through my gym offering me their services, well not me but my clients. When I explain that I am more or less in the same business and they would be compete for my income.
That's one issue. But the other issue I have is with the way all of the "Average' nutitionists look. Sorry but I would not want to look like that. i have asked a few of them some of their opinions on sports nutition and weight training and boby building nutrition in specifics. Their answers are pathetic. What they are good for is couch potatoes and help them lose weight. The one's I have seen all look malnourished and that would be because they try that blanket nutrition on everyone and it does not work. The only thing that they have said which I do agree with ios balance out your diet. They just do not believe in enough of it!

edge250 · Jul 17, 2008

i majored in nutrition for 2 years in college. my professor told me i would need a kidney transplant taking in 300g of protein per day. i did learn a ton about vitamins though.

W8killa · Jul 17, 2008

Nutrient partitioning is far more important than calories. Counting calories is really useless as the body doesn't really work according to the laws of thermodynamics i.e. 3,500 calories equals a pound and so forth.

j-bird · Jul 18, 2008

Marshall

Sesshomaru · Jul 18, 2008

Guys, buy the Protein Book by Lyle McDonald. Swear to god it will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about protein.

buselmo · Jul 19, 2008

Common things nutritionists would do to their clients (in my country atleast):

- start an obese person who weighs 350 lbs out at 1200 cals, 70% carbs/20% fat/ 10% protein

- anything more streneous than a 20 minute walk at 2 mph per day will cause your knees to blow out.

- lifting weights will only make you fatter when you're obese. you lose as much weight as you can, then you lift weights to turn fat into muscle (yes, a couple of them actually said that)

- Usually, weight loss happens the first month. 20-30 lbs. then it stops. the nutritionist will convince their client that nothing is wrong and to stay as they are until they pay the fees for the next 3 month. then they give them a 500 calorie per day menu, and wait for them to give up or complain of no weight loss... then, the infamous line of "you have a genetic disease that makes you look this way. there's nothing you can do about it."

bdp · Jul 19, 2008

My Experience...

I have had a nutritionist for about 3 years and recently decieded to go on my own and here is why.....

My nutrionist had me on a diet PER MEAL (5-6 meals/day): 750 cal per meal - 30% pro/50% carbs/20%fat. 1 hour cardio a day and 1 hour of weights a day. Needless to say when I first started I went from 250lb 22% bf to 230lb 12%. Good results.... but it didnt last. After about 3 months with out changing anything else I began gaining weight and my bf% went up to 15%. I consulted him and he told me to up my cardio to 1.5hours a day!!!! I tried it for 10 weeks and nothing happened. I didnt loose any more bf% and it just stayed at 15%.

So I decided to ammend my diet to 2g of protein per lb and 1g of carbs per lb and LOWERED my cardio to 45min and since then I am down to 225 7-8%bf. I am gradually ammending my diet, shaving off grams of protein and carbs, so Im still at 2g of protein per lb but my carbs are like .75 per lb and Im still leaning out while preserving muscle as best as possible while cutting.

This is my personal experience, it may not work for everyone. But the lesson here is learn your body. Dont be afraid to modify your diet and review your results and ammend as necessary.

Something I have learned ask 10 perople about your diet and get 10 different answers. The whole diet thing is one big experiment. Make sure you watch your weight and get your bf% tested 1-2 times a month, the numbers dont lie.

pesty4077 · Jul 19, 2008

oldfella said:
I wasn't going to reply here because it will probably turn into a train wreck with all the differing opinons.

I have had plenty of Nutritionists/dieticians come through my gym offering me their services, well not me but my clients. When I explain that I am more or less in the same business and they would be compete for my income.
That's one issue. But the other issue I have is with the way all of the "Average' nutitionists look. Sorry but I would not want to look like that. i have asked a few of them some of their opinions on sports nutition and weight training and boby building nutrition in specifics. Their answers are pathetic. What they are good for is couch potatoes and help them lose weight. The one's I have seen all look malnourished and that would be because they try that blanket nutrition on everyone and it does not work. The only thing that they have said which I do agree with ios balance out your diet. They just do not believe in enough of it!

I think you summed it up, I mean after all isn't Dr. Phil giving out diet advice? I sure as hell, do not want to look like him.

I always go to guys that look a lot better than me for solid advice, and I can name quite a few on this site, after all that is what i am striving for.

oldfella · Jul 20, 2008

Guys, the real problem with nutitionists is none of them or at best very few of them actuially train in a gym. with weights that is! They fall well short of understanding the nature of protein metabolism, nitrogen balance and energy pathways and methods which involve all of the above. it is the quantity and quality of the source of the protein that makes all the difference in a weight loss program (diet). It is the absorbability of those proteins we consume that make them effective. Most of them all preach the same bullshit about diets and how we (bbers) have no idea what we are doing, or that what we do is harmful! I just send them on their merry way to go and bother some other poor soul that is simply too lazy to go to the gym and fire up their resting metabolic rate with good old fashioned muscle!!!