Proviron vs boron to raise free test

[jstrong20]

I actually just picked up some boron. Stuffs so cheap so why not. So a question for the smart guys. Does shbg attach to all steroid molecules or just testosterone? Or how about sarms? I like s4 a lot and since it binds to steroid receptors does shbg also attach to it as well?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Do you think that boron will aid significantly on higher doses of testosterone (5-600mg) too?

Ive seen enough bloodwork now that I am leaning toward yes very positively

 

[aphextwin]

My boron just came in so let’s see. I’m going to use it for a while and get bw

 

[nothuman]

Count me in as a new adopter of Boron after the IG post and this thread.

 

[Ashop]

I would pick the PROVIRON anyday BUT I am open to new ideas and would love to hear and see the feedback with the Boron.

 

[Cinder]

What is the problem? Some of you guys have to get out of the "ill just take drugs realm". Some people dont want to take MORE drugs or oral steroids. Ive noted time and time again during bloodwork that elite bodybuilders had a signifigant higher conversion of total testosterone to free testosterone. Ive seen this multiple times now with both juicing elite guys and elite TRT guys.

So you got boron which does nothing for total testosterone just like I said in that post. But it no doubt increases the conversion of free testosterone from total testosterone.
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After only 1 week of boron supplementation of 6 mg/d, a further study by Naghii et al20 of healthy males (n = 8) found (1) a significant increase in free testosterone, which rose from an average of 11.83 pg/mL to 15.18 pg/mL; and (2) significant decreases in E2, which dropped from 42.33 pg/mL to 25.81 pg/mL. All of the inflammatory biomarkers that were measured also decreased: (1) interleukin (IL) 6, from 1.55 pg/mL to 0.87 pg/mL; (2) high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) by approximately 50%, a remarkable decrease, from 1460 ng/mL to 795 ng/mL; and (3) tumor necrosis factor α (TNF-α) by approximately 30%, from 12.32 to 9.97 pg/mL. Levels of dihydrotestosterone, cortisol, and vitamin D increased slightly.

The significant decrease in the men’s plasma E2 after 1 week of boron supplementation suggests a higher rate of conversion of total testosterone (T) to free testosterone (FT) in the testosterone metabolic pathway.

-----------------------------

It is well known that approximately 98% of testosterone molecules are bound to proteins in the blood, principally to sex hormone–binding globulin (SHBG), and are not bioavailable because bound hormones cannot exit capillaries.22 Thus, the elevation of unbound free testosterone seen with boron supplementation may have significant beneficial ramifications, particularly in aging men in whom, typically, levels of SHBG increase and levels of FT decrease

-----------------------------
Another study from Mjilkovich et al. looked at how boron supplementation impacts serum vitamin D levels, but on the side, they also measured free testosterone levels. After 2 months of giving their 13 subject males 6 mg’s of daily boron (calcium fructo-borate) the levels of free testosterone had increased by 29,5% on average, a number similar to the findings of Naghii et al.

---------------------------

So I have proposed this on this board and facebook over the last few years....There have been a slew of guys on facebook that have taken my advice of 6mg morn and 6mg nite time and gotten 1.5 to 3 x the increase of free testosterone. Most of them on TRT
So whats the problem?

I'm just saying you're convinced guys are freaks because of free test?

Should guys ditch other stuff and stick to higher test and boron? Even higher test dosages create's higher free test right?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I'm just saying you're convinced guys are freaks because of free test?

Should guys ditch other stuff and stick to higher test and boron? Even higher test dosages create's higher free test right?

Ive looked at alot (alot now) pros bloodwork. Ive repeatedly seen much higher free test ratios on these guys than the local gym rat. Is that a definitive equation...no...but its something Ive seen time and time again.

I dont understand your thinking here.

If you take 200mg of test a week and your free test comes back at 25 fine
If you take 200mg of test a week with boron and your free test comes back at 37-50 is that not dramatically a greater effect? That is going to lean itself to way more bioavailable testosterone and greater muscle mass.

This post is in the HRT forum is it not? When you say ditch other stuff....thats not really TRT. No sane doctor is saying "hey bro and here is 200mg of equipoise with that 200mg of cypionate"....but in general yes it doesnt matter if someone is doing TRT or juicing....if a simple compound that is dirt cheap (like 2 months is 7-8 bucks!) allows greater free testosterone whether your using 100mg a week of test or whatever dosage of test.....how is that not better?

 

[warlock]

What is the problem? Some of you guys have to get out of the "ill just take drugs realm". Some people dont want to take MORE drugs or oral steroids. Ive noted time and time again during bloodwork that elite bodybuilders had a signifigant higher conversion of total testosterone to free testosterone. Ive seen this multiple times now with both juicing elite guys and elite TRT guys.

So you got boron which does nothing for total testosterone just like I said in that post. But it no doubt increases the conversion of free testosterone from total testosterone.
--------------------------------------

After only 1 week of boron supplementation of 6 mg/d, a further study by Naghii et al20 of healthy males (n = 8) found (1) a significant increase in free testosterone, which rose from an average of 11.83 pg/mL to 15.18 pg/mL; and (2) significant decreases in E2, which dropped from 42.33 pg/mL to 25.81 pg/mL. All of the inflammatory biomarkers that were measured also decreased: (1) interleukin (IL) 6, from 1.55 pg/mL to 0.87 pg/mL; (2) high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) by approximately 50%, a remarkable decrease, from 1460 ng/mL to 795 ng/mL; and (3) tumor necrosis factor α (TNF-α) by approximately 30%, from 12.32 to 9.97 pg/mL. Levels of dihydrotestosterone, cortisol, and vitamin D increased slightly.

The significant decrease in the men’s plasma E2 after 1 week of boron supplementation suggests a higher rate of conversion of total testosterone (T) to free testosterone (FT) in the testosterone metabolic pathway.

-----------------------------

It is well known that approximately 98% of testosterone molecules are bound to proteins in the blood, principally to sex hormone–binding globulin (SHBG), and are not bioavailable because bound hormones cannot exit capillaries.22 Thus, the elevation of unbound free testosterone seen with boron supplementation may have significant beneficial ramifications, particularly in aging men in whom, typically, levels of SHBG increase and levels of FT decrease

-----------------------------
Another study from Mjilkovich et al. looked at how boron supplementation impacts serum vitamin D levels, but on the side, they also measured free testosterone levels. After 2 months of giving their 13 subject males 6 mg’s of daily boron (calcium fructo-borate) the levels of free testosterone had increased by 29,5% on average, a number similar to the findings of Naghii et al.

---------------------------

So I have proposed this on this board and facebook over the last few years....There have been a slew of guys on facebook that have taken my advice of 6mg morn and 6mg nite time and gotten 1.5 to 3 x the increase of free testosterone. Most of them on TRT
So whats the problem?

Dante,

I'm one of those people that always pay attention to what you have to say. I do use boron for the free test increase. What I was not aware of is its effects on estrogen decrease and, more importantly, its decrease in high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP). Have you been able to see a difference in blood work as far as CRP decrease goes with those supplementing with boron?

 

[Cinder]

Ive looked at alot (alot now) pros bloodwork. Ive repeatedly seen much higher free test ratios on these guys than the local gym rat. Is that a definitive equation...no...but its something Ive seen time and time again.

I dont understand your thinking here.

If you take 200mg of test a week and your free test comes back at 25 fine
If you take 200mg of test a week with boron and your free test comes back at 37-50 is that not dramatically a greater effect? That is going to lean itself to way more bioavailable testosterone and greater muscle mass.

This post is in the HRT forum is it not? When you say ditch other stuff....thats not really TRT. No sane doctor is saying "hey bro and here is 200mg of equipoise with that 200mg of cypionate"....but in general yes it doesnt matter if someone is doing TRT or juicing....if a simple compound that is dirt cheap (like 2 months is 7-8 bucks!) allows greater free testosterone whether your using 100mg a week of test or whatever dosage of test.....how is that not better?

I'm just saying...is making free test higher the goal to be a freak? Do you need a higher test and boron dosage to make free test as high as possible?
I basically wanna know how to get your free test the highest. Since you see these elite with high free test.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante,

I'm one of those people that always pay attention to what you have to say. I do use boron for the free test increase. What I was not aware of is its effects on estrogen decrease and, more importantly, its decrease in high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP). Have you been able to see a difference in blood work as far as CRP decrease goes with those supplementing with boron?

Warlock I put almost every person on curcumin morning and nite anyway which decreases CRP pretty dramatically its very hard to see what Boron is doing in that regard

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I'm just saying...is making free test higher the goal to be a freak? Do you need a higher test and boron dosage to make free test as high as possible?
I basically wanna know how to get your free test the highest. Since you see these elite with high free test.

No you dont want to take more boron than that because it has detrimental results if you start taking higher dosages
20mg is the highest daily dose recommended but i think 12 mg (split in morn and nite dosages) gets the job done.
Id have to look it up but I remember a rat study where the highest dose had the same effect and more dire side effects whereas the low and intermediate dosages had the same effects but no side effects

 

[bad rad]

The collagen II based joint supplements have 5mg of boron in them, there are a few brands. I noticed that my TRT always worked better when I was on it. I had forgotten about boron affecting FT levels until recently but I always felt better hormonally when using taking boron. My vitamins have 2mgs of boron too so I get 7mg daily.

 

[warlock]

Warlock I put almost every person on curcumin morning and nite anyway which decreases CRP pretty dramatically its very hard to see what Boron is doing in that regard

Thanks Dante. That makes sense. I was just unaware of those possible effects. For the price of boron, I don't see why people would not want to take it.

Is there a specific brand you like or can recommend?

 

[OutToLunch]

Thanks Dante. That makes sense. I was just unaware of those possible effects. For the price of boron, I don't see why people would not want to take it.



Is there a specific brand you like or can recommend?

Leaning towards this one
Swanson Triple Boron Complex Bone Support Supplement 3 mg 250 Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F92W9MK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Gd7KCb8R3JWHH

Or Now brand which is even cheaper.

 

[Brickshthouse79]

Ive looked at alot (alot now) pros bloodwork. Ive repeatedly seen much higher free test ratios on these guys than the local gym rat. Is that a definitive equation...no...but its something Ive seen time and time again.

I dont understand your thinking here.

If you take 200mg of test a week and your free test comes back at 25 fine
If you take 200mg of test a week with boron and your free test comes back at 37-50 is that not dramatically a greater effect? That is going to lean itself to way more bioavailable testosterone and greater muscle mass.

This post is in the HRT forum is it not? When you say ditch other stuff....thats not really TRT. No sane doctor is saying "hey bro and here is 200mg of equipoise with that 200mg of cypionate"....but in general yes it doesnt matter if someone is doing TRT or juicing....if a simple compound that is dirt cheap (like 2 months is 7-8 bucks!) allows greater free testosterone whether your using 100mg a week of test or whatever dosage of test.....how is that not better?

Dante, when looking at the bloodwork of pros is there a level of free test that is fairly common? A level that you would consider a target value?

Ive been on 10mg test cy, 12mg boron and 25mg prov and im feeling great. I dont have blood work to prove an elevation of free test, but anecdotally I feel good.

 

[Brickshthouse79]

Leaning towards this one
Swanson Triple Boron Complex Bone Support Supplement 3 mg 250 Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F92W9MK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Gd7KCb8R3JWHH

Or Now brand which is even cheaper.

I take the now brand that dante posted on IG.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Leaning towards this one
Swanson Triple Boron Complex Bone Support Supplement 3 mg 250 Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F92W9MK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Gd7KCb8R3JWHH

Or Now brand which is even cheaper.

I actually use both of those
i think i use the swanson in the morning and the NOW at nite...no particular reason

 

[OutToLunch]

I actually use both of those
i think i use the swanson in the morning and the NOW at nite...no particular reason

Not surprised. Lol. Kind of figured you would... to keep all your bases covered.

 

[Massive G]

I started taking boron the day Dante posted about it, 2 x 6 mg NOW foods brand and noticed an immediate effect in the next few days, in wood, overall mood and energy well being. It feels like it's doing exactly what he wrote about. Many of use were brainwashed by the super boron anabolic supplements peddled in the 90's in all the magazines by commercial supplement companies as the rave.

I find it interesting that Dante who owns a supplement company always posts about supplements that help people like krill oil, citrus berg, astrag, boron, cardiotone, etc.and he doesn't sell them at his company, which to me says a lot he's not about that, and always has been in the business of helping people first, which says a lot especially in this business with so many egotistical fragile egos.

 

[Delt123]

Ive seen enough bloodwork now that I am leaning toward yes very positively

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8508192/

Found this study: 7 weeks of 2,5mg boron did nothing for testosterone. I know you advice 12mg per day tho.